Thoughts on Measles outbreak?

[underdesea]

I often wonder how much anti-vax parents know about history? Have they ever spoken to people who were alive before the vaccines came out about their experiences? Have they ever researched or looked into the history of childhood illness in the last century or so? Because I think about the stories I've heard as someone involved in both local history and genealogical work, and can't help but think that at least some of the anti-vaccination crowd might feel a bit differently if they ever heard these same sad tales. :'(

And I always wonder if the anti-vaxx parents were vaccinated themselves. Because if they were, and they're here to tell the tale, then their vaccines didn't harm them, most likely helped them, and they were vaccinated with less science behind the shots than we have now.

 

[mnrose]

Here are my thoughts. I'm very happy to have my 2 autistic teen sons alive and well. The fear about autism is SO overblown I can't even handle it. Autism is just a different way of being. Its not a tragedy, and it won't kill your child. My kids are pretty interesting people. Why anyone allows a fear of autism, of all things, to dictate how they proceed with protecting their children from very real, dangerous and often deadly illnesses, I don't know. It is stupid. Vaccines are proven science. People need to go back to trusting science and the scientific method and its outcomes and stop listening to the tin foil hat morons online.


I feel so badly for those who medically cannot get vaccinated. This must be so terrifying for them. I have NO sympathy for any parent who loses a child due to an illness contracted because of voluntary withholding of vaccines (and I count religious exemptions in that as well).

Every.last.word. Clap. Clap. Clap.

Autism isn't something you "cure" or even want to "cure." It's a different kind of brain and a different way of thinking.

And, people on the spectrum brought us computers and the space program.

I celebrate my son. Sure he has his challenges (who doesn't?). But, he's also got a brain that works in very interesting ways. And, he has a heart of gold. Just because he can't "read" your emotions, and non-verbal cues, doesn't make him something or someone you need to cure.

 

[msjprincess]

I actually thought all kids needed to be vaccinated or they weren't allowed in school until they were--or has the rules changed on this

A lot of the outbreaks in NY state have been in ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities. Most of the kids aren't going to public schools. In NY state you are allowed to get an exemption if you say it's against your religion.

 

[ols386]

I had measles when I was about 6. I still remember how sick I was. My kids and my grandkids all been vaccinated in a timely fashion because I never wanted them to suffer the way I did. Two of my 8 grandkids are on the spectrum. I blame genetics. I have a niece who is anti vaccines and she is as crazy as they come. One of her grandkids is on the Spectrum so of course that proved her point. I am so thankful that we have science that helps us prevent these horrible diseases and will never understand anyone who believes the quacks out there.

I had measles when I was in 4th grade. I really don’t remember much about it, but my mom always told me I was really sick and was delirious because my fever was high. Maybe that’s why I don’t remember much about it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I find myself wondering what people thought would happen when they started allowing personal exemptions (especially places where it's lax). It's a delicate balance of recognizing boundaries like religion but many just leaped on the opportunity to exempt themselves for other reasons. Herd immunity starts to break down the more you have your population walking around without protection. Of course you'd see a resurgence in diseases that were once kept at bay with vaccinations when you have more of the population exempting themselves from said vaccinations.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Here are my thoughts. I'm very happy to have my 2 autistic teen sons alive and well. The fear about autism is SO overblown I can't even handle it. Autism is just a different way of being. Its not a tragedy, and it won't kill your child. My kids are pretty interesting people. Why anyone allows a fear of autism, of all things, to dictate how they proceed with protecting their children from very real, dangerous and often deadly illnesses, I don't know. It is stupid. Vaccines are proven science. People need to go back to trusting science and the scientific method and its outcomes and stop listening to the tin foil hat morons online.


I feel so badly for those who medically cannot get vaccinated. This must be so terrifying for them. I have NO sympathy for any parent who loses a child due to an illness contracted because of voluntary withholding of vaccines (and I count religious exemptions in that as well).

I wish you could tell that to my husband's aunt (who is actually a nice person IRL). She has an austic son. She is an anti-vaxxer explictly due to autism which is an opinion she formed much later on. I have only met her a handful of times because she lives in another state and we've only visited there a handful of times but FB..it tells all..

 

[DLgal]

I wish you could tell that to my husband's aunt (who is actually a nice person IRL). She has an austic son. She is an anti-vaxxer explictly due to autism which is an opinion she formed much later on. I have only met her a handful of times because she lives in another state and we've only visited there a handful of times but FB..it tells all..

So her son is already autistic and she is still an anti vaxxer? What is she afraid of?

 

[Dznypal]

That doesn’t make sense if certain groups for certain reasons can put everyone at risk for not getting vaccinated then people wonder how epidemics start

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So her son is already autistic and she is still an anti vaxxer? What is she afraid of?

I believe she's under the impression that vaccines contributed to her son's autism. She's shared a post about maintaining medical freedom which had in it's call for action I quote "We need to take action now to prevent the government from dictating what is injected into our children". Then she shared a video entitled "Top CDC Whistle Blower-- We were ordered to cover up vaccine autism link" and her caption was "it was too late to save my son". She's shared a post titled "The clear legal basis that vaccines cause autism" and so on and so on. You know those kinds of posts. I unfollowed her on FB so I didn't have to see that time and time again in my news feed.

*Note I'm not bringing politics in the above comments just explaining what kinds of stuff I see*

 

[ronandannette]

A lot of the outbreaks in NY state have been in ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities. Most of the kids aren't going to public schools. In NY state you are allowed to get an exemption if you say it's against your religion.

I'm not very knowledgeable about these communities but I assume they are fairly insular? I wonder who Patient Zero would have been - if it was brought in by an infected international visitor? This is a very, very good (bad) example of what happens to a population with no herd immunity.

 

[DLgal]

I believe she's under the impression that vaccines contributed to her son's autism. She's shared a post about maintaining medical freedom which had in it's call for action I quote "We need to take action now to prevent the government from dictating what is injected into our children". Then she shared a video entitled "Top CDC Whistle Blower-- We were ordered to cover up vaccine autism link" and her caption was "it was too late to save my son". She's shared a post titled "The clear legal basis that vaccines cause autism" and so on and so on. You know those kinds of posts. I unfollowed her on FB so I didn't have to see that time and time again in my news feed.

*Note I'm not bringing politics in the above comments just explaining what kinds of stuff I see*

Oh, okay, I thought you implied that she was antivaxxer before her son was born.

Some people just want something to blame. That kind of thinking does no one any good.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh, okay, I thought you implied that she was antivaxxer before her son was born.

Oh sorry for the confusion

Some people just want something to blame. That kind of thinking does no one any good

Totally agree

 

[msjprincess]

I'm not very knowledgeable about these communities but I assume they are fairly insular? I wonder who Patient Zero would have been - if it was brought in by an infected international visitor? This is a very, very good (bad) example of what happens to a population with no herd immunity.

With the NYC cases it's thought that an unvaccinated child was infected on a trip to Israel. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ealth-emergency-over-measles-brooklyn-n992466

 

[North of Mouse]

Meh

I am of a certain age group when polio vaccines started being available, and because of some my parents knew that already had contacted polio, they had us in the first line available (not literally, of course) for the 'sugar cubes' vaccines.

MMR's (measles,mumps, rubella,) were not available for our children in time to keep them from getting them and they all three suffered terribly, but thankfully no lasting problems.

Also, I have a good friend now that developed polio related issues years later after contacting it initially.

Not sure exactly what your response means, whether you vaccinate or just not concerned, but can only assume you haven't been affected by knowing anyone that has suffered.
My brother & I both had terrible cases and he had hearing issues from that day forward.

Because of what we have seen/faced, I have very real feelings about those that refuse to vaccinate their children (if it is not a health issue). We need herd immunity to protect the helpless.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'd love to hear the thoughts and reactions of parents from when the vaccines became available decades ago to the news that parents in the 21st century would take such a ridiculous gamble with their children's health and lives.

No joke.

 

[mnrose]

No joke.

They'd be aghast and appalled. It's ridiculous that people take this view....unless they are in the tiny category of people who CANNOT get vaccinated. But, that's why everyone who CAN get vaccinated should. Herd immunity helps those people.

 

[RamblingMad]

Double check your immunity. I had mine checked during my last physical. Turns out that I am no longer good for mumps, so I'm redoing my MMRs.

 

[superme80]

I'm not worried. If my kids got it. We homeschool, so if ANYONE in my family shows any sickness, we stay home until everyone is better. We try hard not to spread germs. I am frustrated people assume that people vaccinate due to the "fear of autism". That isn't it. I am angry that this is no longer any place to have actual discussion regarding vaccines. Vaccines are not 100% safe. Nothing in the medical field is 100% safe. I wish we could get more research into safer vaccines. This push to just vaccinate and "claim" it is all safe is frustrating. Is the the fail rate fairly small? Yes it is. But to completely ignore those who are vaccined injured is doing the science of vaccines an injustice. We need to keep pushing for safer vaccines.

 

[tcufrog]

I wish you could tell that to my husband's aunt (who is actually a nice person IRL). She has an austic son. She is an anti-vaxxer explictly due to autism which is an opinion she formed much later on. I have only met her a handful of times because she lives in another state and we've only visited there a handful of times but FB..it tells all..

My older son has been diagnosed as having high functioning autism. Even though I didn't know what the problem was, my motherly instinct knew there was something different about him when he was a baby. A lot of people dismissed it as me being overly worried because he was my first but when I saw him around other kids I knew something was different. There was no regression or change when he had his first MMR. I honestly think that with a lot of kids who have autism we will be able to diagnose them earlier once we know what to look for.

As for living before vaccines were available... When I was in third grade my sister and I came down with chicken pox. My case was very mild and lasted a few days but she was older (6th grade) and her case was much more serious and lasted much longer. She had chicken pox scars on her face for years afterward. My father had to move out of the house until we were well because he didn't know if he had ever had it. His parents had died so he couldn't ask them. I've known some elderly people who had shingles before the vaccine was developed and it was brutal. One woman I know was hospitalized because the shingles got into her blood. The after effects were so bad she had to permanently stop working. She co-owned a thriving interior decorating business and loved her career. It really harmed her financially and emotionally.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm not worried. If my kids got it. We homeschool, so if ANYONE in my family shows any sickness, we stay home until everyone is better. We try hard not to spread germs. I am frustrated people assume that people vaccinate due to the "fear of autism". That isn't it. I am angry that this is no longer any place to have actual discussion regarding vaccines. Vaccines are not 100% safe. Nothing in the medical field is 100% safe. I wish we could get more research into safer vaccines. This push to just vaccinate and "claim" it is all safe is frustrating. Is the the fail rate fairly small? Yes it is. But to completely ignore those who are vaccined injured is doing the science of vaccines an injustice. We need to keep pushing for safer vaccines.

I'm not sure if your post implies you haven't had your children vaccinated. I would certainly be willing to have a discussion with someone who didn't. Way upthread (or maybe it was another vaccine thread) I mentioned our experience.

My DS is now 22. When he was an infant the "anti-vax" (for lack of a better term) movement was just beginning. It was actually prior to the outright hysteria about autism, and the issues raised regarded the used of mercury preservatives and various unidentified adjuvants in vaccines. These concerns were unknown to our own parents and thanks to the internet, we were the first generation of parents to have to consider them. And I did consider them - at length and as thoroughly as possible, which included talking to qualified local medical professionals as well as just googling.

We took a cautious and measured approach that was approved of and supervised by our doctor, in the interest of minimizing the risk of a bad reaction as much as possible. We scheduled DS's vaccinations so that he was never given more than one at a time and he was not given compound vaccines (MMR for example). We paid OOP to purchase single-dose vials of vaccines that did not contain thimerosal. It took longer than usual for him to complete his entire course of childhood vaccines and at one point when his nursery school had a case of whooping cough brought in by a staff member, we voluntarily quarantined him and had him vaccinated immediately. (FTR - we did not agree to have DS receive Gardasil. At the time it was too new, the long-term risks unknown and the efficacy in males inconclusive. He has received it by his own consent since becoming an adult.)

During that time nobody shamed us or dismissed our concerns as ridiculous. All the medical professionals we dealt with were willing and able to provide respectful, thoughtful and compelling answers to our questions and suggest solutions. I'm not sure that would be the case today because the issue has become so polarizing. If you are willing I would still highly encourage you to try and seek out professionals you trust to have a rational discussion with.