Thoughts from a 20 Year DVC Member

[thanxfornoticin]

I don't think they do anymore. At least not in Sept, when I was there.
The days of updating those is several years past. And I think there was really only one in MK, EPCOT, & HS. I don't think there was one in AK. That was old technology--radios, and wait time tags on guests.

Definitely still saw electronic tip boards at EP and HS when we visited in December. Don't recall seeing one in MK. And now that I think about it, not sure I recall one at AK ever either!

The biggest issue we had with the online app and wait times, is it rarely matched the time we could physically see at the attraction. So when the app says a 20 minute wait and you arrive and it reads 45, that's annoying.

 

[tjkraz]

Easywdw used to do park touring strategies with FP+ booked the evening before. It's not like that if one missed the 60 days window one couldn't do anything. Clueless people will be clueless, regardless. Like people who now arrive at the Studios 1 hour after opening, enter a 2,5 hours line for RotR and at 11 buy G+ hoping to skip lines and end up booking Mappets. How do you level the playing field for people like that?
I'm a bit upset that FP are now paid for, however if they bring back FP+ as they were with a reasonable daily fee, I'd happily pay for it. The current version of G+ and ILL is just a mad attempt to squeeze money out of people with no regard to guest experience.

100%

We switched park plans once or twice every trip, prompting us to rebook FP+ on short notice. No, you wouldn't get Mine Train or Pandora, but most other options were routinely available.

And for day guests, standby was always an option.

If the CM Chuck spoke with is correct and some desire to improve the experience for non-planners is driving all of this, it actually makes me angry.

 

[kes601]

I don't think they do anymore. At least not in Sept, when I was there.
The days of updating those is several years past. And I think there was really only one in MK, EPCOT, & HS. I don't think there was one in AK. That was old technology--radios, and wait time tags on guests.

There is definitely more than one in MK and HS. Not sure about EP or AK.

 

[gregskellington]

100%

We switched park plans once or twice every trip, prompting us to rebook FP+ on short notice. No, you wouldn't get Mine Train or Pandora, but most other options were routinely available.

And for day guests, standby was always an option.

If the CM Chuck spoke with is correct and some desire to improve the experience for non-planners is driving all of this, it actually makes me angry.

Is standby not still an option? Fun times in the standby lines with FP+! Want to ride FOP on a Wednesday at the beginning of May? Hope you're ready to stand in line for four hours!

I think it's pretty obvious the switch was to improve the guest experience for non-planners. Disney is a business. They care that customers were coming for the first time, spending a ton of money, and leaving pissed because they didn't realize the level of plannong required during the FP+ Era. I get that everyone on this board understood and accepted that planning. I get that some even liked it. But if you think the behaviors and opinions of people on this board are even remotely representative of the average WDW guest, you're wrong.

Is G+ perfect? No, absolutely not. But it feels insane to me to think Disney has any desire or intention to return to the FP+ Era of planning.

 

[sssteele]

25 year member here. We still love our DVC, but it is the decisions being made by Disney upper management that is kind of draining away the “Magic” for us. DVC is a timeshare (and probably one of the best ones out there when it comes time you want to sell). There was no such things as “perks” when we first bought. When purchasing DVC direct, their materials do say perks can be discontinued at any time, so buying something based on perk expectations is not a good idea. Same with buying resale....you know before you buy that most perks are not offered to you.....but you are paying much less than direct buyers. And perks need to be approved by Disney. For years we were not allowed to purchase a dining plan, we got a couple of dining discounts, never got a deal on park tickets. Moonlight Magic wasn’t introduced until 2016 (2015 if you count the Blizzard Beach...Beach Bash).
There are many things I’m not happy about....but it’s the changes with the parks and the decrease in services. DVC is still what it’s supposed to be....a timeshare that’s located inside the bubble of Walt Disney World. We will still make 3 or 4 trips per year, but won’t be purchasing the Genie+, won’t be eating on property more than once or twice per trip, won’t be purchasing any souvenirs on property (unless they are having a blowout sale), will grocery shop at Publix or Winn Dixie and will purchase wine, beer and spirits there as well. Will visit local eateries. We sometimes will stay at a value resort on travel days to save points, but won’t do that anymore....paying $20 to park my car at Pop Century is ridiculous. The price of Pop Century has gotten ridiculous also. I can stay at one of the many hotels close by and get a free breakfast. Although many do charge $15 for parking.
I expect park tickets to increase annually.....but slapping on an extra charge for Genie + and LL is going too far, especially after a big increase for park tickets.
We are morning people, so getting to the parks early is easy for us. We do what many others on here have mentioned...back to the resorts for lunch and pool or games or naps. Parks in the evening.
Yes there are the usual suspects that have nothing but negative things to say about DVC, but they are in the minority.
DVC is what kept WDW going through the pandemic...I would hope that Disney upper management would recognize this and throw us a few bones (but not holding my breath).
Anyone that’s “not feeling it” should take a break from the parks. Visit Aulani if possible, or Hilton Head or Vero. Or bank your points to next use year and borrow and maybe have a big family gathering at your DVC resort. Or check out the new exchanges with II. It’s probabky not a good value for your points, but it’s something different.
Just my two cents.

Second paragraph sums up our approach to Disney of late. Shop for snacks, breakfast foods, booze, and few dinner items (Publix subs for example), mostly dine off-property, visit the parks (AP) to people watch and do attractions that have relatively short lines. Finally enjoy our resorts. Adapt and enjoy.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Here's what a Guest Services CM told me after an abysmal day with Genie plus...(which they refunded as we were only able to get on two rides) they said they evened the field because people that bought their park ticket the day of their visit were locked out of FP+.

I don't understand why Disney suddenly thinks guests that spend thousands of dollars to stay onsite at their hotels, plan in advance, and make ticket purchases in advance should not have more perks than the guests that stay offsite and divide their time between all the Orlando area attractions.

So I was responding to the comment that PAPER FP (not FP+) was an even playing field. It was definitely NOT. It discriminated in favor of the able bodies.

FP+ is a different animal. it's not level either as that CM says. As you point out, it discriminated in favor of the pre-planned.

Regarding on-site vs off-site, for the record, I do NOT disagree with you. I personally preferred that on-site guests who have paid thousands to stay on-site SHOULD receive preferential treatment over people who are staying offsite and giving all their money to Best Western (enter the people who are going to flame me about how Disney is too expensive and most families can only afford Best Western and why should those with more money get an advantage... I know they are out there just waiting to pounce on me).

So the playing field is still not even. If they really wanted to even the playing field, they'd eliminate all LLs and go back to standby for everyone. Then only the people who got there first would have an advantage, which, it could be argued, is still an advantage.

See my previous post about the disabled. However, I agree that of all the methods, this is probably still the most even. Other than the first 5 minutes of park opening, it's pretty level.

The most fair system, besides standby-only, I ever saw at WDW was the boarding group "lottery" for RotR, and yet lots of posters here on the DIS thought that system was unfair. But everyone who had a smartphone had an equal chance of snagging a BG when they went on sale.

But it was not fair to those who are technology challenged! (I kid....)

Bottom line is that ANY system is never going to be completely even. The most even system I actually ever saw in any Disney style was the Star Wars character meet and greets on the first SW Day at sea voyages where you put your preferences in order and the system then "picked you out of a hat" the day before. But even that would favor the prepared and some would still not get what they wanted. And OH HELP ME I can already hear the tears on these boards if Disney had you put down your rides in order of preference and you get picked randomly out of a hat about which ones you got. COULD YOU IMAGINE?

 

[tjkraz]

I think it's pretty obvious the switch was to improve the guest experience for non-planners. Disney is a business. They care that customers were coming for the first time, spending a ton of money, and leaving pissed because they didn't realize the level of plannong required during the FP+ Era. I get that everyone on this board understood and accepted that planning. I get that some even liked it. But if you think the behaviors and opinions of people on this board are even remotely representative of the average WDW guest, you're wrong.

Theme park attendance grew steadily throughout the FP+ era so far more people were satisfied than those "leaving pissed."

As long as Disney keeps building attractions which do not have capacity to accommodate every guest admitted to the park, there will be winners and losers. All they're really doing here is shuffling the deck--changing the method for distributing limited capacity.

Yes, businesses want to create an environment that's welcoming to new customers. But in this case, placing a greater focus on the new / uninformed takes away from established customers. There's risk in thumbing your nose at existing customers while chasing the new. Time will tell whether Disney was right or not.

 

[gregskellington]

Theme park attendance grew steadily throughout the FP+ era so far more people were satisfied than those "leaving pissed."

And yet Disney still jumped at the opportunity to change the program, indicating they had issues with it.

And yes, all Disney is doing is shuffling availability. Availability away from people like me that could game FP+ to ride Space Mountain 6 times in a day and towards people that don't know any better. I'm not sure how that's a problem.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

As long as Disney keeps building attractions which do not have capacity to accommodate every guest admitted to the park, there will be winners and losers.

That's an impossibly high bar though, right?

In 2019, MK was averaging 57,500 people a day.
The highest capacity ride in all of WDW is the PeopleMover with a theoretical capacity of 4,600pph or 55,200 in a 12 hour shift.

So at a minimum you would have to run for 13 hours every day with the highest capacity rides theoretical limits (which are almost never actually reached). And no other ride comes CLOSE to that capacity in practice which is going to have extreme limits in what they can offer.

Might as well just rephrase that to "As long as Disney exists and remains popular and there are no amazing technology breakthroughs, there will be winners and losers".

Although I guess they COULD make a ride with like 18 tracks.....

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, businesses want to create an environment that's welcoming to new customers. But in this case, placing a greater focus on the new / uninformed takes away from established customers. There's risk in thumbing your nose at existing customers while chasing the new.

Cable TV seems to be a good example. New customers get great deals. Older established customers don't. Increasing numbers of people are cutting the cord in favor of internet service only because of this. My elderly neighbor at 87 yo pays nearly $200 monthly, just for TV and phone, she does not have internet. I have internet only from the Cable Company, I dropped TV. Now, they are constantly trying to lure me back with limited time offers. There is a LOT of free entertainment available, if you know where to look. One wonders how much cable cutters have affected their bottom line. I know several of my friends have dropped TV service as well.

Many DVCers and Disney veterans are quickly finding ways to cut back on the Disney theme parks, like the cable cord cutters. Eating off site, fewer park days, and going to the competitors.

On a side note, I wonder how all the Disney vloggers affect the crowds and lack of availability?

 

[tjkraz]

And yet Disney still jumped at the opportunity to change the program, indicating they had issues with it.

Sure. The question is whether the cure is actually better than the disease. Disney has access to a lot of guest data. Whether or not they interpret it accurately is another matter. If there's an ounce of sincerity in the videos they published, Disney seemed to believe that Genie (the free version, not +) would be a godsend for all park guests. Well....

And yes, all Disney is doing is shuffling availability. Availability away from people like me that could game FP+ to ride Space Mountain 6 times in a day and towards people that don't know any better. I'm not sure how that's a problem.

It's not, but there's a baby / bathwater analogy to be made there.

To be clear, I don't blame Disney for trying to monetize ride reservations. I don't like it, but it was predictable. I also don't blame them for making changes to the ride reservation program.

I blame them for THIS particular set of changes, which I personally dislike. And I question the degree of fallout from long time guests.

That's an impossibly high bar though, right?

Correct. That was basically my point. They simply CAN'T put every guest on every ride every day. FP/FP+/G+ are nothing but different attempts to dole out that capacity.

Someone is ALWAYS going to walk away disappointed. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Cable TV seems to be a good example. New customers get great deals. Older established customers don't.

After years of following the same pattern, cell phone companies seemed to finally realize they had to change. In fall 2021, most began offering the same deals to new and existing customers.

 

[zavandor]

To be clear, I don't blame Disney for trying to monetize ride reservations. I don't like it, but it was predictable. I also don't blame them for making changes to the ride reservation program.

I blame them for THIS particular set of changes, which I personally dislike. And I question the degree of fallout from long time guests.

Amen.
And in addition to that, the application is bugged and frustrating to use, which compounds to the problem.

I wonder who designs Disney apps interface. I just downloaded a Zip file with all my photopass pictures and I had to Google how to do it. And I work in IT.

 

[Boardwalk III]

20-year DVC member and have the same frustrations as the OP. After returning from our first trip in over 2 years with a large group in November, and mentioning some of our disappointments in this forum, someone suggested I share my concerns with WDW and figured it was worth a shot. I believe I copied both WDW Guest Services and DVC.

Finally today, almost 2 months later, I received a response. Nothing earth-shattering but I did appreciate it. Am pasting the body of my letter below as well their response for anyone who is interested. And I definitely encourage others to do the same. While it may never help, our frustrations should at least be communicated.

We bought annual passes and have another week booked for April, but I’m currently on the fence about whether I want to cancel as am not sure I’m up for dealing with the confines of park reservations and the frustration of Genie+ again so soon

I am in eternal optimist however, so am still hoping for better days ☺

Letter sent in November

Greetings,

This is the first time in 25 years that I have written a note of concern regarding our Walt Disney World vacations.

We are a 20-year DVC family (Boardwalk Villas home resort), live in the Northeast, and were at WDW for the first time in 2 years for 12 days mid-November. We were so happy to be back!

I was traveling with a group of 6 family & friends for the first 6 days, followed by another group of 7 family & friends for the following 8 days, with a 2-day overlap of both groups in the middle. We were in a 2BR Boardwalk Villa for the first part, and then splurged for a Grand Villa for the 8 days. Accommodations and the CM team at the Boardwalk were wonderful as always!

However our overall park experience was a huge disappointment, for the first time ever. I’m an experienced WDW vacation planner, am super organized, and love to do the planning for our groups. Frankly, I found it extremely difficult to manage Genie+ with an extended group of family and friends. Most days it had me getting up before 7 AM and playing with the app to try to get at least one thing we could all do together at a good time. Then having to stress out all morning about what other things we might be able to do together as a group and constantly refreshing to see what times were loading for each attraction, and having to work all this around our dining reservations, and then repeating this whole process every day was a total drag on our vacation in my book. A very frustrating experience, to be honest.

For families of 2-4 people I can imagine it might work OK if they all want to do the same attractions together all day. But after lots of research ahead of our trip, and 12 days of practice in the parks I found Genie+ to have created some of the worst park days we have ever experienced.

Yes you can make it work, and yes, you can take advantage of “stacking” (which we did best we could). But at least one person has to be up before 7 am to get it started, and folks have to to spend a LOT of time on the phone app all day to hopefully secure maybe 3 “good” lightening lanes throughout an entire park day before they run out (and that would be on a good day).

I frankly don’t have an issue with the $$ cost, but the amount of time and effort spent on Genie+ each day, taking valuable time away from relaxing & having fun with family, and also from enjoying the overall park environment and surroundings, is simply unreasonable and unsustainable.

We may not sell our DVC Membership, but are deeply disappointed that our WDW vacations will likely never be the same. This certainly will change the amount of time we spend on Disney vacations over the next 20 years, with shorter stays, less time spent in the parks, fewer park passes purchased, and the thought of spending time at other Orlando attractions/resorts for the first time ever.

While we have travelled the globe as family, Walt Disney World has been the highlight of our family vacations and family bonding over the past 20 years, and this new park strategy has simply created an enormous negative impact on our Disney experience.

As we are equally disappointed and sad about this, I wanted to pass along this feedback should anyone have an interest in our experience.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Very best,

Guest Communications response (January)


Dear Cynthia,

Thank you for your e-mail to the Walt Disney World® Resort. Due to unforeseen circumstances, we regret not providing a more prompt reply to your inquiry.


We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback with us and are sorry for the disappointments you mentioned in your e-mail regarding your experience with our Disney Genie+ Service. It is our goal to create magical memories and exceed the expectations of our Guests during each and every interaction that you have with us. Please be assured that we have shared your comments with our leadership team, along with the appropriate management, as feedback such as yours is taken very seriously.

Once again, thank you for contacting us. We sincerely hope that we will have an opportunity to entertain you soon.

Sincerely,

Treasure
Sales and Solutions

 

[WilsonFlyer]

What's obvious to me is that's not the first time that particular letter has been sent out.

 

[Boardwalk III]

What's obvious to me is that's not the first time that particular letter has been sent out.

At first I thought you meant my letter, but I see now that you mean the response letter. True indeed!

 

[CarolynFH]

N/A

 

[RoseGold]

If it's not against any DIS rules, can you explain how that was done?

Genie$ and ILL$$$ is based on park reservations, not the location of the device. If she were flying in that night, or in Europe at a comfortable noon, as long as she is logged into someone's account who is with that travel group, she could book for them. Anyone could. I guess it would be problematic if that account didn't actually show up in the park or use the reservations. But this would work all day as long as she is logged in as someone who is actually there.

Now that I think about it, having someone in Europe pound some buttons for you sounds A LOT better than getting up at 7AM.

 

[Bruggok]

If the choices are:

1. Wake up at 7am on vacation to reach the park at open and begin to make ride reservations (legacy FP)
2. Wake up at 7am on vacation to begin making reservations on my phone (Genie+)
3. Wake up at 7am 1-2 months before my vacation begins to make reservations from home, at times of my choosing (FP+)

....I'd take #3 every single time.

Agree with what Chuck said above. Somebody is always going to "lose" along the way. I can't feel sympathy for day guests when they choose to stay off site and not plan in advance.

If the operational changes we see moving from FP+ to Genie+ are truly designed to improve the experience of day guests at the expense of Disney hotel guests and repeat visitors, I think Disney is in for a rude awakening.

Agreed. Remember we used to look for better FP+ and ADR times, then drop less preferred times? Now you get what you get the day of, and if you drop that time rarely will you get anything better.

People keep bringing up how FP+ screwed over people who didn’t book rides ahead. Parks could’ve trimmed FP+ down to 2 or even 1. They could’ve saved some availability for people who didn’t book any. Didn’t like people who got 10 FP+ rides a day? Limit them to 1 ride per day and no standby until after 4pm. I could come up with so many alternatives to modify FP+ to give spots to people who need spontaneity. Instead, WDW trashed FP+ entirely and the result was worse plus cost $. The only winners here are people who care about earning per share,

 

[Carol_]

The only winners here are people who care about earning per share,

That’s why I bought the stock. Gotta win somewhere!

 

[sagosto]

Cable TV seems to be a good example. New customers get great deals. Older established customers don't.

This is unfortunate. However, Cable TV is dying as MANY people only pay for cable out of convenience and the need for Internet which is needed for internet streaming cable.