This tipping thing is really out of hand

[maxiesmom]

I am not the best tipper in DW, as I won't leave 15-20$ for a dinner at chef Mickey.

Is it because it is a buffet? If so, then you are not being fair to the wait staff. They do the same amount, if not more, of running back and forth at a buffet, removing plates and filling glasses as they do at a regular restaurant. 18% is still the standard for good service.

 

[luvsJack]

If a meal is split and all the server does is put the full meal in front of you and an empty plate in front of your partner, then yes, I would tip on the price of one meal.

If the server gets the extra plate and splits the meal, (meat, vegetables, starch), onto 2 plates to serve each person 1/2 a meal, then I would tip extra. The server then did extra work that wasn't actually required. Frequently when you do this the server will even get a little extra of your sides to make the serving look a little better.

In most instances the kitchen doesn't even KNOW this was a split entree, the server does all the work, for YOU.

Don't know about at WDW, but every where here that dd and friend split a plate the waitress will say "I'll have the kitchen split it" that tells me that the kitchen is doing it NOT the wait staff. In the instances they don't say that, they bring an extra plate.

In the rare instance that they bring it split but didn't say anything, its done before they get to the table so how is one to know whether the kitchen did it or the wait staff?

 

[mfd25wife]

If a meal is split and all the server does is put the full meal in front of you and an empty plate in front of your partner, then yes, I would tip on the price of one meal.

If the server gets the extra plate and splits the meal, (meat, vegetables, starch), onto 2 plates to serve each person 1/2 a meal, then I would tip extra. The server then did extra work that wasn't actually required. Frequently when you do this the server will even get a little extra of your sides to make the serving look a little better.

In most instances the kitchen doesn't even KNOW this was a split entree, the server does all the work, for YOU.

I've only been to a couple of restaurants where they split the food for us. Typically, they set an extra plate down.

Regardless, I see it as it's a percentage of the cost of the meal or not. I may add a little to it, but it would not be the cost of a separate meal. If I am with a friend and we order two appetizers and drinks, I'm going to tip based on the cost of what we ordered. If you use WDW as an example, they would even suggest as such on the receipt. I wouldn't tip nor would the receipt "suggestion" indicate as if we ordered two entrees. The server would still be bringing two orders, but I would be surprised if he or she was offended if the tip was 20% of the appetizers and not on a phantom order.

 

[TanyaS]

I hate, hate, hate the concept of tipping.

I do tip. I usually tip rather well in restaurants, and I try to follow the "guidelines" for tipping in other situations/industries.

But I wish we would do away with ALL tipping and have employees paid by their employers.

My least favorite is when bellmen in hotels practically knock me over to grab my suitcase out of my hands. I dislike feeling obligated to tip for a service I didn't request or want.

And add me to those confused about the fairness of tipping based on a percentage. My water gets refilled several times, if that's what I order, but my $10 glass of wine only gets poured once. Why should the server's pay depend on what I feel like drinking that evening? I know I can, and often do, tip extra regardless of the cost of my meal - but the principle bothers me. Why should a server in one state make so much less than someone doing the exact same job in another state?

If I were queen of the world, we would do away with all tipping entirely.

 

[mfd25wife]

I hate, hate, hate the concept of tipping.

I do tip. I usually tip rather well in restaurants, and I try to follow the "guidelines" for tipping in other situations/industries.

But I wish we would do away with ALL tipping and have employees paid by their employers.

My least favorite is when bellmen in hotels practically knock me over to grab my suitcase out of my hands. I dislike feeling obligated to tip for a service I didn't request or want.

And add me to those confused about the fairness of tipping based on a percentage. My water gets refilled several times, if that's what I order, but my $10 glass of wine only gets poured once. Why should the server's pay depend on what I feel like drinking that evening? I know I can, and often do, tip extra regardless of the cost of my meal - but the principle bothers me. Why should a server in one state make so much less than someone doing the exact same job in another state?

If I were queen of the world, we would do away with all tipping entirely.

I think some would say you need to tip as if you ordered soda, beer, etc. but that brings to question, what would you pretend you drank to come up with the amount to calculate?

 

[bimshire]

Is it because it is a buffet? If so, then you are not being fair to the wait staff. They do the same amount, if not more, of running back and forth at a buffet, removing plates and filling glasses as they do at a regular restaurant. 18% is still the standard for good service.

It is silly to tip the same at a buffet vs a sit down. I just leave a couple of bucks because the person only removes my dishes. I do everything else for myself like refills etc. With a regular waiter, I sit down and everything is brought to me.

I tip the longshoreman who handles my bags before a cruise because it has been said that they would drop you bags in the water if you don't. Heck, I don't want to wear the same clothes everyday on a 7 day cruise. But these guys are paid a healthy wage and should not be expecting more money for doing their job.

Someone said they don't understand why anyone would feel pressured to tip when there is a tip jar at the cash register. I guess you will never get it. It just seems like all this extra tipping has taken on a life of its own. It seems like when anyone plans a vacation for example, $1000 need to be set aside for every Tom, Dick and Harry that has his hands out.

Finally, I wish the food industry was like others in the retail industry (Macy's, Sears, Best Buy). At many of these stores, I get advise, help on how to operate it, I may have called ahead and had the items pulls and set aside, and a cashier has to check me out. But the price is set for what you want to buy and you pay it. Employee is happy and you are happy.

 

[maxiesmom]

It is silly to tip the same at a buffet vs a sit down. I just leave a couple of bucks because the person only removes my dishes. I do everything else for myself like refills etc. With a regular waiter, I sit down and everything is brought to me.

It is not silly. The server usually has to make multiple runs back to the kitchen with empty plates. And the good ones don't let them pile up, but take them back as each guest empties one. Which means many trips back to the kitchen. One plate here, one plate there. Instead of just bringing out everyone's entree at the same time. Added to that they are constantly refilling water and pop glasses.

More running, not less.

 

[NFLDERS]

I completely understand the stresses people are under when they come to the hospital, especially my unit which is the monitored unit where they are hooked up to cardiac monitors and have lots of wires with bells & alarms going off constantly. And I understand it is part of my job which I am also totally fine with.

The point I was making is that I know it is part of my job and I don't work for less than minimum wage and rely on tips. The part of my statement about not getting tipped for doing my job refers to those who make a wage and still expect a tip, such as those referenced like shuttle drivers, postal workers, garbage men etc... I am sorry but a garbage collector makes more than some of my friends who work in offices and they also have benefits!!

Just because you do a job that you were hired to do doesn't mean that you get a tip because you do it! I tip people who I know make less than minimum wage who rely on tips.

My thinking too.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

It is not silly. The server usually has to make multiple runs back to the kitchen with empty plates. And the good ones don't let them pile up, but take them back as each guest empties one. Which means many trips back to the kitchen. One plate here, one plate there. Instead of just bringing out everyone's entree at the same time. Added to that they are constantly refilling water and pop glasses.

More running, not less.

Although at buffets, I've never had our server clear plates. It has always been the person bussing tables. And I would be happy to tip them!

I do have a question about people's views on split plates. When a place charges for a split plate does that only cover the cost of the sides, in your opinion or is that "tipping" themselves for the extra work it takes. I personally would not tip as though I ordered two meals when I only ordered one.

 

[cobright]

First of all, I actually prefer most tipping cultures.

The alternative is a restaurant where the owner/manager properly evaluates the server's performance and pays them accordingly; thus leaving that job off your plate. That sounds like consumer shangri la but I assure you that this paradise is largely illusory.

Without a tipping system all of a waitress' income is determined by her wages. Wages generally only go in one direction, so a 'good' waitress will get raises up to a point then she's just not going to get more money out of her boss no matter how good she is. Then she doesn't have incentive to go that extra mile. She will work as hard as it takes to not be fired and that's it. Even if the restaurant puts in an automatic 'service fee' like they do in most European states that only rewards waitress' who work more tables and does nothing to reward exceptional service. Rewarding serving staff through managed wages lets a normally good server slouch for a day and really just phone it in without any financial repercussions. Someone who's pay is determined by the people she's serving THAT MOMENT will do her best for every customer.

With a tipping system in place I decide (to a limited extent) how much that waiter gets paid this hour. Waiters and waitresses that have served to my table before know I tip very well if a few commonsense customs are followed and as a result I get phenomenal service wherever I regularly eat or drink.

Japan is usually held up as a model for "Tipping is an insult to a restaurant in Japan" mentality. and if you are dining at a top notch place you would know that your wait staff is well paid and they perform flawlessly. But in just as many establishments, diners, and cafeterias the service is atrocious in Japan. Like anywhere else, wait staff do only as much as needed to not be fired.

The only thing I would change is, if I were running a cafe, set a minimum tip for the breakfast menu. People come in and order a $1.50 special and tip 20% thinking they are big spenders. But the waitress works just as hard at breakfast as she does at lunch and makes 30 cents for her trouble.

Note: You know what ... we don't have a gender neutral pronoun, okay? Running this out in a perfectly fair non gender specific language would be convoluted and contrived. So I will say it clear as I can, I am not ascribing any gender-role correctness to any part of this discussion. I use "waitress" most often because I see female wait staff most often, not because I think wait-staff should be female (or any particular gender). As the (often) stay-at-home dad and husband to a wonderful woman who out-earns the crap out of me I rarely think in terms of gender correctness but nevertheless I can sometimes come across with tones of misogyny. I assure anyone who cares that I'm an unlikable person for a lot of reasons none of which are my feelings towards women.

 

[sam_gordon]

The alternative is a restaurant where the owner/manager properly evaluates the server's performance and pays them accordingly; thus leaving that job off your plate. That sounds like consumer shangri la but I assure you that this paradise is largely illusory.

Without a tipping system all of a waitress' income is determined by her wages. Wages generally only go in one direction, so a 'good' waitress will get raises up to a point then she's just not going to get more money out of her boss no matter how good she is. Then she doesn't have incentive to go that extra mile. She will work as hard as it takes to not be fired and that's it. Even if the restaurant puts in an automatic 'service fee' like they do in most European states that only rewards waitress' who work more tables and does nothing to reward exceptional service. Rewarding serving staff through managed wages lets a normally good server slouch for a day and really just phone it in without any financial repercussions. Someone who's pay is determined by the people she's serving THAT MOMENT will do her best for every customer.

There's a couple of problems with your scenario...
1) I don't think anyone is saying do away with tipping. I think most of us want to do away with EXPECTED tipping. If you pay a wait staff minimum wage, maybe a "great" tip will be 5%.
2) Do you get tips (in your current job)? If not, does that mean YOU only work "as hard as it takes to not be fired and that's it"? You must, because as I read your post, the only incentive to do a good job is to get tips.
3) DW & I recently went on a cruise. The minimum "tips" were charged before we ever got on the boat (so call it a "service fee"... the employees knew the money was already collected). With two exceptions (out of all the employees we ran into), the service was WONDERFUL.
4) Currently, even if service is TERRIBLE, many people expect you to still tip 15%. You're a cheapskate if you leave any less. So tell me how this is an incentive to do well.

 

[Granny square]

We tip based on the time at a servers table combined with the cost of our meal. Servers often only have 3 or 4 tables, so if we linger we tip more, etc. 20% minimum for decent service. If they understand the art of being helpful without being a pita, then more.

 

[MIGrandma]

It is silly to tip the same at a buffet vs a sit down. I just leave a couple of bucks because the person only removes my dishes. I do everything else for myself like refills etc. With a regular waiter, I sit down and everything is brought to me.

I used to be a server. Our restaurant had a buffet but also a full menu. I read in an article once about tipping that the normal tip for buffet service was 10%, then 15-20% for regular table service. Most of our patrons still tipped the 15-20% though.

It is not silly. The server usually has to make multiple runs back to the kitchen with empty plates. And the good ones don't let them pile up, but take them back as each guest empties one. Which means many trips back to the kitchen. One plate here, one plate there. Instead of just bringing out everyone's entree at the same time. Added to that they are constantly refilling water and pop glasses.

More running, not less.

This is true. With plate orders you remove their original plates once. With the buffet you are usually removing at least two, if not up to a half-dozen (or more) sometimes. We always tried to remove plates quickly, and never let them "stack up." There were a few customers though, that the boss said to let their plates stack up. They "over indulged" in the buffet and she wanted them to see exactly how many plates full they were eating.

I hate "plate charges" for a shared meal. I used to actually recommend to my 2-party customers that each wanted a 1/2 order of the hot beef sandwich to just order one and have it split, it was less expensive for them that way. Then I would just tell the cook to put it on two plates. I felt bad for them when my boss put a stop to it though. She was never "for" the customer. She said "they get more food if you split the plate" and I didn't see that at all, not with the hot beef. You put half the sandwich on each plate, and a regular order came with two scoops of mashed potatoes so just put one on each plate and smother with gravy as you would a whole order. The boss said that if people wanted to share one I had to give them a whole one and the customer themselves had to split it onto the other plate.

 

[cobright]

2) Do you get tips (in your current job)? If not, does that mean YOU only work "as hard as it takes to not be fired and that's it"? You must, because as I read your post, the only incentive to do a good job is to get tips .

Looking at this part particularly. The difference between most jobs and waiting tables is the accountability. When I take a contract I am accountable to one person, the person who receives the product of my labor.

In most jobs, what you do is received by management and then 'resold' to the customer. This is figurative language when it comes to providing a service but you get the idea. But with wait staff the number of individual customers is relatively enormous and to manage labor quality in the traditional manner would require many more managers to get the same degree of oversight.

Doing it this way would add to the expense considerably. And that is why it works very well in fine dining establishments and places like on a cruise where the cost of the meal includes a premium.

Even so, from a customer stand point I would much rather have a meal cost 20% less and have the waiter work for ME to get that money than have it already assumed into my bill and rely on the back of house to ensure quality of my service.

 

[sam_gordon]

Looking at this part particularly. The difference between most jobs and waiting tables is the accountability. When I take a contract I am accountable to one person, the person who receives the product of my labor.

In most jobs, what you do is received by management and then 'resold' to the customer. This is figurative language when it comes to providing a service but you get the idea. But with wait staff the number of individual customers is relatively enormous and to manage labor quality in the traditional manner would require many more managers to get the same degree of oversight.

Doing it this way would add to the expense considerably. And that is why it works very well in fine dining establishments and places like on a cruise where the cost of the meal includes a premium.

Even so, from a customer stand point I would much rather have a meal cost 20% less and have the waiter work for ME to get that money than have it already assumed into my bill and rely on the back of house to ensure quality of my service.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. There are LOTS of jobs where a company's employees work directly for a customer... installers & repair folks come immediately to mind.

It just floors me when someone says "with no tips, they have no incentive to do well". BS. MILLIONS of people work, and do so well, and have no guaranteed tips. They do their job well because they want to keep their job, they want a shot at a raise/bonus (IMO, that's their "tip"), or they just have a good work ethic.

And again, no one is saying (or I've missed it, please point it out if someone has) tips should be outlawed. You want to keep tipping, go ahead. But we shouldn't be rewarding "basic" job performance, IMO, and that's exactly what "expected tips" do.

 

[disney1990]

Although at buffets, I've never had our server clear plates. It has always been the person bussing tables. And I would be happy to tip them!

I do have a question about people's views on split plates. When a place charges for a split plate does that only cover the cost of the sides, in your opinion or is that "tipping" themselves for the extra work it takes. I personally would not tip as though I ordered two meals when I only ordered one.

Actually, by tipping your server, you are tipping the person bussing your table. Almost all tips are shared at restaurants. My daughter has to give back a percentage of her sales every night to be shared with bussers, bartenders and the hostess. She has actually worked shifts where she owed more than she even made.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Actually, by tipping your server, you are tipping the person bussing your table. Almost all tips are shared at restaurants. My daughter has to give back a percentage of her sales every night to be shared with bussers, bartenders and the hostess. She has actually worked shifts where she owed more than she even made.

^
THIS. I have no idea why this concept is so difficult for people to understand. This exact thing happened to me several times when I worked at Planet Hollywood in my '20's. Plus, you're taxed on money that you didn't even make.

Honestly, everyone complaining about tipping should really go work a couple if shifts in a restaurant, and then you might possibly change your tune, because I guarantee you that those complaining have never waited a table before.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

^
THIS. I have no idea why this concept is so difficult for people to understand. This exact thing happened to me several times when I worked at Planet Hollywood in my '20's. Plus, you're taxed on money that you didn't even make.

Honestly, everyone complaining about tipping should really go work a couple if shifts in a restaurant, and then you might possibly change your tune, because I guarantee you that those complaining have never waited a table before.

I understand the concept of tipping just fine. I don't like tipping a server when they don't do any of the work. We've gone to restaurants where they come take the initial order, but somebody else brings our food out, bussers fill sodas & clear dishes for us and we don't see our server again until it's time for the check. That may be the way the restaurant works to expedite food and they may split tips, but I don't have to like it. That said, we've never not tipped. I would just rather give it to the busser directly.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I understand the concept of tipping just fine. I don't like tipping a server when they don't do any of the work. We've gone to restaurants where they come take the initial order, but somebody else brings our food out, bussers fill sodas & clear dishes for us and we don't see our server again until it's time for the check. That may be the way the restaurant works to expedite food and they may split tips, but I don't have to like it. That said, we've never not tipped. I would just rather give it to the busser directly.

The bussers get tipped by the servers, believe me, and they get tipped even when they don't do anything at all, and even if the waiter gets stiffed by a table. More often than not, it is computerized these days and you are told what you have to tip out and to whom - bartender, buzzer, food runner, sometimes the hostess. If it helps you, think of it as tipping a team rather than just the person who took your order, even though that is far from the only thing the waiter does.

 

[Granny square]

I understand the concept of tipping just fine. I don't like tipping a server when they don't do any of the work. We've gone to restaurants where they come take the initial order, but somebody else brings our food out, bussers fill sodas & clear dishes for us and we don't see our server again until it's time for the check. That may be the way the restaurant works to expedite food and they may split tips, but I don't have to like it. That said, we've never not tipped. I would just rather give it to the busser directly.

That is sort of like saying "I want to go to Disney and pay the cm's directly for helping us."