This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[msjprincess]

The video is so much worse than I imagined.

 

[tzolkin]

But now I think he was leaning her out head first so she could see down the side of the ship like he had done himself when he first walked up to the window. He was trying to show her how high up they were, which is something she couldn’t see from behind the glass of the lower row of windows — that’s why he picked her up in the first place. If that’s true, I have no sympathy for him.

This is exactly what it looked like to me. They were docked, so it definitely looks like he's leaning out to get a good view-- look all the way down, look to the sides of the ship, whatever-- then decided to pick her up and lean her out there so she could also look around. The video is blurry, but it certainly looks like a grabbing her up and over the railing motion so she could lean out the window (lifting her up high enough and even adjusting for her legs to clear the railing)

Also, the way he just snatched her up carelessly made me want to punch him. Even if he hadn't held her our the window at all (which it definitely looks like he did), you don't grab and toss a baby/toddler up by your shoulder/above your head right next to an open window or balcony railing anyway. That itself is stupid and shows that he had absolutely no concern or worry that she could potentially be injured.

I don't mean that as in he was intentionally trying to hurt her. I mean that he was not demonstrating the bare minimum of caution a rational person would. Because he doesn't seem worried at all about the possible danger, I find it hard to believe he was taking the normal precautions the average person would around an open window or balcony (making sure you had a tight grip, holding with two hands, making sure the child wasn't squirming, etc.)

 

[Hikergirl]

OMG i just watched the video.
He has absolutely NO defense, he was leaning out of the window and he picked her up and held her out of the window. There is no way he didn't know that window was open, he is lying.
Any sympathy I had for him is now gone, he has nobody to blame but himself and his own reckless and dangerous actions.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

I should not have watched that video as now I want to throw up. I am so angry at the grandfather right now. Not only was he careless and reckless, but he is also lying to his family. Bang on the glass? He knew there was no glass as he stuck his head out the window.

He made a horrific error in judgement. He needs to own up to his mistake and not lead his family down this path of lies. It will not bring Chloe back, but this farce needs to end for this family so they can get out of the limelight before this goes to a very bad end at trial.

On a side note I just returned from a trip to Europe. We love being over there as every step you make is not baby proofed to avoid frivolous lawsuits.

 

[Searc]

I won't watch the video, but judging by what you all are saying that did watch it, the family has no case against RCC, which was pretty much everyone's initial take on the tragedy.

 

[mnrose]

I won't watch the video, but judging by what you all are saying that did watch it, the family has no case against RCC, which was pretty much everyone's initial take on the tragedy.

The video is not that bad. We ARE accurately reporting it to you. Nearly the entire upper half of his body is OUT the window...at least it appears that way. He leans WAY out. It's not at all dangerous for HIM to do that (of course) because he's an adult and is firmly grounded.

I WOULD encourage anyone who has been "defending" the grandfather on this thread, however, to watch it. Any doubt in your mind would be erased. It's very obvious that HE is responsible for that child's death. Not the cruise ship. Any "warning" on that window would have been meaningless as he voluntarily put himself OUT of the window....no doubt to look around (normal thing to do really). The "not normal" thing was picking that child up and holding her OUT of the window. It clearly appears to be what he did.

 

[Searc]

The video is not that bad. We ARE accurately reporting it to you. Nearly the entire upper half of his body is OUT the window...at least it appears that way. He leans WAY out. It's not at all dangerous for HIM to do that (of course) because he's an adult and is firmly grounded.

I WOULD encourage anyone who has been "defending" the grandfather on this thread, however, to watch it. Any doubt in your mind would be erased. It's very obvious that HE is responsible for that child's death. Not the cruise ship. Any "warning" on that window would have been meaningless as he voluntarily put himself OUT of the window....no doubt to look around (normal thing to do really). The "not normal" thing was picking that child up and holding her OUT of the window. It clearly appears to be what he did.

I have no doubt you all are accurately describing what happens in the video. Those of you that have watched have all said the same thing.

 

[cvjw]

After watching the video multiple times, and trying to reconcile it with what the grandfather and family have been saying, I don’t think the prosecutor should have offered him a plea deal. He was so reckless in endangering the baby’s life with the way he one-handed lifted her over his head and out the window. After he had stuck half his body out of the obviously open window.

Other people go to prison every day for reckless behavior. Not sure why he gets to escape punishment when so many other people who use terrible judgement don’t.

 

[mnrose]

After watching the video multiple times, and trying to reconcile it with what the grandfather and family have been saying, I don’t think the prosecutor should have offered him a plea deal. He was so reckless in endangering the baby’s life with the way he one-handed lifted her over his head and out the window. After he had stuck half his body out of the obviously open window.

Other people go to prison every day for reckless behavior. Not sure why he gets to escape punishment when so many other people who use terrible judgement don’t.

I thought the same thing. And, almost typed it out and posted it. It seemed a little callous. But, you are 100% correct. He is LYING....whether deliberately lying or lying out of self-protection, it makes little difference to me, and certainly not to the poor baby. His family is going to have to face a hard truth. Grandpa's careless actions killed that child, and it's not the first time (nor the last) that a parent or grandparent will do something incredibly stupid that kills a child.

I DO get what the prosecutor is doing. It is obviously better to end this pain quickly than drag it out. Plus, it's expensive, etc. But, my gut says "screw you" to the grandfather. Nail his behind to a wall for what he did, and then compounding it by LYING about it.

 

[fly girl]

I won't watch the video, but judging by what you all are saying that did watch it, the family has no case against RCC, which was pretty much everyone's initial take on the tragedy.

I don't blame you. Curiosity got the best of me, and it bothered me all last night after watching it. Although it isn't graphic, you know what is coming, so that in itself is heart breaking. After watching it, I was reminded of when NBC aired the luge Olympian who was instantly killed when he went off course and hit a support beam. NBC aired that footage. There was no need to do it. It was gratuitous, and that is what watching this felt like. Icky.

I do feel sorry for the family that this video was leaked. On one hand, it is helpful that the truth is out there, but really the public didn't need to see it. Just hearing it from the prosecutors and the court would've sufficed. This is now out there forever. Very sad.

After watching the video multiple times, and trying to reconcile it with what the grandfather and family have been saying, I don’t think the prosecutor should have offered him a plea deal. He was so reckless in endangering the baby’s life with the way he one-handed lifted her over his head and out the window. After he had stuck half his body out of the obviously open window.

Other people go to prison every day for reckless behavior. Not sure why he gets to escape punishment when so many other people who use terrible judgement don’t.

I thought the same thing. And, almost typed it out and posted it. It seemed a little callous. But, you are 100% correct. He is LYING....whether deliberately lying or lying out of self-protection, it makes little difference to me, and certainly not to the poor baby. His family is going to have to face a hard truth. Grandpa's careless actions killed that child, and it's not the first time (nor the last) that a parent or grandparent will do something incredibly stupid that kills a child.

I DO get what the prosecutor is doing. It is obviously better to end this pain quickly than drag it out. Plus, it's expensive, etc. But, my gut says "screw you" to the grandfather. Nail his behind to a wall for what he did, and then compounding it by LYING about it.

Yes, he was reckless. He is at fault. I truly believe his mind is blocking it out for self preservation. Like someone above said, he could probably take a polygraph and pass because he doesn't know the reality. I also think having the lawyer coddle him into believing it is the cruise lines fault does him no good either.

I see why they offered the plea deal. He is living his life sentence now. Going to prison won't change what happened. And prison won't rehabilitate him. He killed his own granddaughter, and grandchildren are typically 100% unconditional love. I have said this previously in this thread, this story reminds me of the Pittsburgh Zoo case when the mom hoisted up her son to see the painted dogs and he fell in the pit. It was a total lapse in judgement, and living your life knowing what you have done is punishment enough. Grandpa has a rude awakening when he sees the video.

I know others feel differently, and understandably. But I really hope he takes the plea deal and ends this.

 

[sam_gordon]

I truly believe his mind is blocking it out for self preservation. Like someone above said, he could probably take a polygraph and pass because he doesn't know the reality. I also think having the lawyer coddle him into believing it is the cruise lines fault does him no good either.

I agree. I'm not comfortable calling him a liar. To me, that designation means he intentionally is not telling the truth. I truly believe his mind made up a story to excuse his lapse of judgement, so it's "true" to him. I think that happened even before they found a lawyer.

I think the lawyer (and family, they are just as responsible IMO) jumped the gun on filing suit (which we all knew). They KNEW there was security footage, why not wait until someone (whether the family or a designated representative) had seen it before placing the blame elsewhere? Maybe they filed the suit to make sure the footage didn't get destroyed? I'm guessing they latched on to what the GF said happened and couldn't imagine (like we couldn't either) him actually doing what the video shows.

 

[mnrose]

I agree. I'm not comfortable calling him a liar. To me, that designation means he intentionally is not telling the truth. I truly believe his mind made up a story to excuse his lapse of judgement, so it's "true" to him. I think that happened even before they found a lawyer.

I think the lawyer (and family, they are just as responsible IMO) jumped the gun on filing suit (which we all knew). They KNEW there was security footage, why not wait until someone (whether the family or a designated representative) had seen it before placing the blame elsewhere? Maybe they filed the suit to make sure the footage didn't get destroyed? I'm guessing they latched on to what the GF said happened and couldn't imagine (like we couldn't either) him actually doing what the video shows.

Could be. But, now they KNOW. If they don't do the right thing, and dismiss it...and if grandfather doesn't take the plea deal....then I will call him a liar with no problems whatsoever. He *might* want to BELIEVE he wasn't incredibly reckless, but the video does not lie. He stuck half his damn body OUT that window. To now say "I thought it was closed" is just ridiculous. And, a lie.

 

[QueenIsabella]

See, I wouldn't consider what the grandfather is saying as "lying". In my mind, lying is willfully telling an untruth.

Not everybody knows this, but your brain takes some time to process to create memory. It does this in the background, you're not aware of it. To go OT a bit, when he was 7, my son had a seizure (not medically significant), while he was at school. According to the teacher, he (teacher) called for small group discussion, and DS just hit the floor. But in talking to DS, the last thing her remembers is being in the cafeteria, some 10-15 minutes before. That 10 minutes is lost to DS, because his brain didn't have the chance to file it away properly. His neurologist explained this to me.

In the case of the grandfather, his brain simply can't/couldn't process the awful reality. He keeps unconsciously "rewriting the script" in a slightly less awful way. As others here have said, he could probably pass a polygraph, because his mind simply won't allow him to see the truth. He could possibly reach the real truth with some kind of therapy, but I don't know what purpose that would serve. The man is already living in hell.

 

[mnrose]

I get all that, and I even agree that he's "creating" this story for self protection. But, with the video out there, the truth is knowable. And CONTINUING to perpetuate the story and the lawsuit makes this "self protection" brain thing into a lie. That's the problem. You might believe something wholeheartedly, but when confronted with the cold, hard facts, continuing to insist on your false belief becomes very, very wrong.

 

[cvjw]

I agree. I'm not comfortable calling him a liar. To me, that designation means he intentionally is not telling the truth. I truly believe his mind made up a story to excuse his lapse of judgement, so it's "true" to him. I think that happened even before they found a lawyer.

I think the lawyer (and family, they are just as responsible IMO) jumped the gun on filing suit (which we all knew). They KNEW there was security footage, why not wait until someone (whether the family or a designated representative) had seen it before placing the blame elsewhere? Maybe they filed the suit to make sure the footage didn't get destroyed? I'm guessing they latched on to what the GF said happened and couldn't imagine (like we couldn't either) him actually doing what the video shows.

Just because he has blocked what actually happened from his mind doesn’t change what actually happened. Lots of people who leave their kids in hot cars or make a bad decision while driving and hurt other people also believe in their mind that they weren’t at fault. Lots of other people are sitting in jail right now for horrible lapses in judgement. The poor baby is dead because of his lapse of judgement.

 

[Gracedis1]

After watching the video, he needs to take the plea deal, and the family needs to drop their civil suit. It is very clear he knew at the time that the window was open. What he thinks he recalls now is not important. Thank God for the video. That poor baby. I can understand that it's too painful for the family to put blame on one of their own, but with time I hope they can see the truth instead of blaming RCI.

 

[Hikergirl]

if he had said that he doesn’t remember clearly what led up to the baby’s death I wouldn’t be so quick to call him a liar. He continues to claim he thought the window was closed, there is a lawsuit pending because he isn’t willing to take responsibility for what he did. His actions show he knew very well that window was open,so at this point that makes him a liar.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt before, but there is no doubt now, he he knew what he was doing at that moment.

 

[John VN]

if he had said that he doesn’t remember clearly what led up to the baby’s death I wouldn’t be so quick to call him a liar. He continues to claim he thought the window was closed, there is a lawsuit pending because he isn’t willing to take responsibility for what he did. His actions show he knew very well that window was open,so at this point that makes him a liar.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt before, but there is no doubt now, he he knew what he was doing at that moment.

TRAUMA can cause a lapse of actual recollection of events.

just found ---

"Dissociative amnesia has been linked to overwhelming stress, which might be the result of traumatic events -- such as war, abuse, accidents, or disasters -- that the person has experienced or witnessed. --- my bolding

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/dissociative-amnesia#1

 

[Kogo Shuko]

TRAUMA can cause a lapse of actual recollection of events.

just found ---

"Dissociative amnesia has been linked to overwhelming stress, which might be the result of traumatic events -- such as war, abuse, accidents, or disasters -- that the person has experienced or witnessed. --- my bolding

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/dissociative-amnesia#1

Hikergirl isn't disbelieving in dissociative amnesia. She is suspicious of the made up facts that he is using as his reasoning. He didn't seem to "forget" what happened, but is rather believing something that did not happen. And I'm sure there's some other fancy-named syndrome that could explain that as well.

But I myself am suspicious because they were warned that there was damning evidence and they didn't want to believe it. They still went ahead and tried to blame RCCI for an accident.

 

[Lilsia]

But he knew AT THE TIME, that what he was doing is dangerous and stupid. I don't care what he says now, after the fact. No one with 2 connected brain cells would dangle a child out of a window. Plus witnesses reported that he said immediately after the incident that he thought the window was closed. Your brain is not going to forget that fast that you just stuck your body out of the window and then lifted a child and held her out of the window. If what he is saying is true that he did not realize that the window was open, then how does he explain that he had the child out of the window for so long? Don't you think that he would have immediately realized as soon as she passed the "window" and pulled her back in?

 

[sam_gordon]

Just because he has blocked what actually happened from his mind doesn’t change what actually happened. Lots of people who leave their kids in hot cars or make a bad decision while driving and hurt other people also believe in their mind that they weren’t at fault. Lots of other people are sitting in jail right now for horrible lapses in judgement. The poor baby is dead because of his lapse of judgement.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. I wasn't excusing him in that post and I haven't excused him one iota since this happened. I'm just not willing to call him a "liar".

if he had said that he doesn’t remember clearly what led up to the baby’s death I wouldn’t be so quick to call him a liar. He continues to claim he thought the window was closed, there is a lawsuit pending because he isn’t willing to take responsibility for what he did. His actions show he knew very well that window was open,so at this point that makes him a liar.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt before, but there is no doubt now, he he knew what he was doing at that moment.

What I don't know is whether he's actually made a statement after learning what was on the video or if the Daily Mail is just repeating what he said before the video was released. I'll agree that once the video is described to him and if he continues to say "I thought the window was closed/I'm color blind/There should be signs", then he'll be a liar in my book.

IMO if the civil suit isn't dropped by the end of the year (should be by tomorrow), I think the family lawyer should be brought up on malpractice charges.