This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[aejammers]

They have said from the beginning alcohol wasn't a factor. Grandpa didn't drink.

And you are correct, definitely not a childs play area. That still irritates me every time I hear it. It is the pool deck, point blank, period. stop.

And the window they are at is right next to a small bar, complete with people sitting on bar stools! Can't imagine a bar in the middle of a children's play area! This is all so heartbreaking.

 

[Imzadi]

As someone mentioned upthread, one of the articles described the railing as being 18” from the window. That’s much farther than it appears in pictures, but I don’t know if the pictures are deceptive. Would anyone who’s been on the ship care to weigh in on how far the rail is from the window? I’m trying to get an idea of how far he’s actually standing from the window in the video. If there’s an 18” space, he could be leaning forward without being outside the window. If it’s only a 6” gap, then he, and she, must be leaning through the window. It’s simply unfathomable. The video is so blurry it’s hard to know for sure what I’m looking at.

Here are 2 photo of the railing and where it is in relation to where it is to the window. It's set back. I don't know about 18 inches though.

EEPS this post is screwed up!!!! I don't know what all those other photo "attachments" are. I think they are from the web page I grabbed the pics above from. I think they didn't attach properly. But, I can't seem to delete the attachments off the post now.

 

[fly girl]

@Imzadi, if I remember correctly, I want to say it is about 6-8" away from the window. Maybe at the full angle of the window it could be 18", but if I recall correctly it didn't feel that far back. I remember going against the railing which was very high for my short 5'2" body and could lean out a little. (similar to a balcony on a cruise ship)

 

[ronandannette]

And then, they try and say it was because he was colorblind and didn’t know the window was open. He clearly STUCK his head out the open window before holding the baby out the open window.

He needs to take responsibility for his actions and take the plea deal and then drop the lawsuit against royal caribbean. The parents anger is pointed the wrong way. They need to face the facts that it was the grandfathers fault. Period.

And regardless of what happens in the criminal proceedings, RCCL needs to absolutely bury him if the matter proceeds to civil court. I generally tend towards the little guy in these David v.s. Goliath legal scenarios but in this instance, it is unthinkable that the cruiseline be seen as culpable or heaven-forbid, settle with the family.

 

[mnrose]

As I've said before, pages ago, the mother needs to watch that video herself OR have a VERY trusted friend do it for her and tell her what it shows. It CLEARLY shows the grandfather's head leaving the video, and it sure as heck appears to be OUT of the window. At the very least, the top of his head was out. It seems like more than that was out. How he could *think* the window was closed is unfathomable given what you can SEE with your own eyes. And, he picks her up and at least appears, with only one arm around her, to put her through that same opening. Wherever is head was, there went the toddler shortly thereafter. Then a LONG period of time elapses (30+ seconds....someone up thread says 45....I didn't time it....it was just quite some time) before he obviously collapses. One has to assume that she was dropped right at that point, or a second before. So, for quite some time, she was "gone" from the video entirely before his reaction to her falling. She didn't fall right away, or else the grandfather is some sort of psychopath who could some how stand there for 30+ seconds after she fell. Where was she for the long gap? NOT anywhere in the video....the pink swimsuit and white hat are what make her stand out. He lifts her up (you see that) and moves her out of the video picture completely, one can only assume she is out the window. Sigh. What the hell was he thinking?!?!

 

[Imzadi]

I think he sat/stood her on the railing or window sill for a better view and she slipped. It looked like about 45 seconds between him picking her up and reacting to the fall. That's a REALLY long time.

About 40-45 seconds goes by and the GF "reacts" (sort of jerks forward and leans way forward over the railing).

I do hope it's that he blocked it all out. And isn't just covering up a lie. It must have been so unfathomable that she was there one moment, where he had hoped to perch her on the railing after they looked out the window together. But, then she was gone. No perching, no Chloe. And he just couldn't comprehend that moment.

 

[Imzadi]

As I've said before, pages ago, the mother needs to watch that video herself OR have a VERY trusted friend do it for her and tell her what it shows. It CLEARLY shows the grandfather's head leaving the video, and it sure as heck appears to be OUT of the window. At the very least, the top of his head was out. It seems like more than that was out. How he could *think* the window was closed is unfathomable given what you can SEE with your own eyes. And, he picks her up and at least appears, with only one arm around her, to put her through that same opening. Wherever is head was, there went the toddler shortly thereafter. Then a LONG period of time elapses (30+ seconds....someone up thread says 45....I didn't time it....it was just quite some time) before he obviously collapses. One has to assume that she was dropped right at that point, or a second before. So, for quite some time, she was "gone" from the video entirely before his reaction to her falling. She didn't fall right away, or else the grandfather is some sort of psychopath who could some how stand there for 30+ seconds after she fell. Where was she for the long gap? NOT anywhere in the video....the pink swimsuit and white hat are what make her stand out. He lifts her up (you see that) and moves her out of the video picture completely, one can only assume she is out the window. Sigh. What the hell was he thinking?!?!

Not to be gruesome, it probably actually takes several seconds to fall the full 150 ft. Then, probably some of it is the shock and the delayed reaction to it all. Like he had been punched in the gut. I'd like to think I'd be clawing the air, after her, to try to get her back. But, I think the shock and disbelief of it happening may have one frozen and paralyzed, instead.

I remember reading that a witness said they heard her screaming the whole drop down.

If the grandfather had stuck her out the window, she might have squirmed in fear. And she wriggled right out of his arms.

 

[fly girl]

Not to be gruesome, it probably actually takes several seconds to fall the full 150 ft. Then, probably some of it is the shock and the delayed reaction to it all. Like he had been punched in the gut. I'd like to think I'd be clawing the air, after her, to try to get her back. But, I think the shock and disbelief of it happening may have one frozen and paralyzed, instead.

I remember reading that a witness said they heard her screaming the whole drop down.

If the grandfather had stuck her out the window, she might have squirmed in fear. And she wriggled right out of his arms.

I completely forgot about that ... I am getting teary eyed again.

 

[mnrose]

But, no one near them in that video is REACTING to anything until the grandfather collapses. If indeed she was screaming (and no doubt she was), and had fallen earlier than the grandfather's collapse, why isn't anyone reacting? They start reacting about the time he collapses. In other words, I think he dropped her right before he collapses. She starts screaming. People react.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So it seems the original news that he was dangling the little girl out the window and lost his grip, wasn’t too far off.

From the OP:

Toddler Dies After Grandfather Dangles Her From Cruise ShipNewser - By Evann Gastaldo1 hour ago


A family cruise turned tragic Sunday afternoon when an 18-month-old girl died after her grandfather dangled her outside an 11th-story window on the ship and then lost his grip.
Authorities tell the AP the Royal Caribbean Freedom of the Seas was docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico, at the time. Fox News, citing Puerto Rico's Primera Hora newspaper, reports that the Indiana toddler apparently fell 150 feet and landed on concrete.
She was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

"It's a very grave scene, very regrettable and tragic," a public security official in Puerto Rico tells Primera Hora, per CBS News.
"One of the grandfathers, whom it would appear was playing with the little girl, lifted her out of the open window and lost his grip." He says she hit an awning first before landing on the dock.
She was reportedly traveling with her parents and younger brother, as well as both her maternal and paternal grandparents. An investigation is ongoing, and officials are interviewing witnesses, Sky News reports.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh.my.goodness. that video maybe it's a good thing honestly that it's blurry for what it does show it hard enough to watch

 

[theluckyrabbit]

I watched the video. I can't believe I did, but I did. My heart is aching. Actually aching. I have tears streaming down my face.

He poked his head out. He held her out of the window. There is no way he thought there was glass. TAKE THE PLEA DEAL!!!

Okay, I watched the video. He needs to plead guilty.

For those who don't want to see it: it's fuzzy, but you can clearly see Chloe toddling over to the lower window (in a pink bathing suit and floppy white hat, just like the picture before the incident). Grandpa follows a few seconds behind. He leans on the railing and sticks his head out the window for a few seconds. Then he leans (kneels? it's not totally clear) down to Chloe, picks her up, and actually lifts her up by his head. It looks like maybe he is going to put her on his shoulders, rather than put her feet or bottom on the railing. He appears to lean out with her, then she's gone.

There's just no way that he couldn't know the window was open. HE STUCK HIS HEAD OUT, SECONDS BEFORE. I still believe it was an accident, 100%, and my heart breaks for the entire family.

I just caught the tail end of a blurb on the released video on Inside Edition. The grandfather's lawyer is asking why was this video even released to the public? (They didn't think it would be made publicly available.) Someone interviewed the mother and asked why she hasn't watched it to know what really happened. She, of course, has said she's already been to traumatized to watch it.

Someone said previously that the grandfather's lawyer hadn't had a chance to watch the video previously. So, then the family and the lawyer were totally going off of what the grandfather told them what happened. Which we now know is not accurate AT ALL.

She was never perched on the railing. In fact, the OP was correct when it was reported that witnesses saw him hold her out the window.

So, all of this was a lie, because he couldn't face the parents and tell them that he held her out the window and DROPPED her??? Argh!!!

Found it. The lawyer and family HAD to have just gone by what he said AND his mind blocked out what happened. There is no way anyone in their right mind after seeing the video could think he didn't know the window was open.

I think he sat/stood her on the railing or window sill for a better view and she slipped. It looked like about 45 seconds between him picking her up and reacting to the fall. That's a REALLY long time.

Beyond tragic. I think my questions posted above have been answered. What this family must be going through tonight...

 

[kaytieeldr]

He needs to take the plea deal while it is still an option. With the release of this video, you can see that he is clearly at fault.

Most likely, he would be allowed to accept the plea deal even after the trial starts. Ideally he won't let the process to get that far.

How many languages would it have to be written in for all the international travelers?

One. English. I swear we have the highest percentage of entitled, "not my fault" residents in the world.

 

[mom2rtk]

So it seems the original news that he was dangling the little girl out the window and lost his grip, wasn’t too far off.

Exactly what I was thinking. And it's unthinkable.

 

[MrsPete]

I'm with those who say the grandfather has "blocked it out" of his mind. He probably believes -- 100% believes his own story by now. I bet he could pass a polygraph test.

I'm not saying he did this consciously or with malice; rather, it's a self-protection thing -- the brain has the ability to refuse to accept /block out things that are simply too traumatic to be handled.

 

[ronandannette]

Most likely, he would be allowed to accept the plea deal even after the trial starts. Ideally he won't let the process to get that far.

One. English. I swear we have the highest percentage of entitled, "not my fault" residents in the world.

The lack of "idiot-proofing" in Europe and the Caribbean, and apparently the lack of need for it, is actually quite startling at first.

 

[Imzadi]

One. English. I swear we have the highest percentage of entitled, "not my fault" residents in the world.

I want to laugh at this.

Unfortunately what you said is true.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I was trying to figure out how the perspective on the video may have been affected by angle, distance, light glare etc. because, honestly, what it looks like is so much worse than what I imagined it would be, even if it clearly showed the grandfather at fault. It looks as though he first leans his body halfway out the window to look straight down the side of the ship. He then picks her up, and the first time I watched it I literally gasped at this point because he did it so quickly and recklessly I thought he had chucked her straight out the window. She disappears so far into that window and out of view that I’m not even sure he sat/stood her on the rail. He’s not a small guy and there wouldn’t be a lot of space left for Chloe to sit on the rail with him as close to it as he appears to be. It seems more likely that his body is leaned against the rail and she is sitting in front of him on the sill, except... who on earth would balance a baby on the sill of an open window 11 stories up?! At one point he kind of shifts and turns, taking his arm away, repositioning his grip or switching arms. Omg, the thought that she was perched on that rail or possibly the sill while he so carelessly shifted her around... it’s stomach churning. He/they again lean forward for a few seconds before she falls, where he momentarily leans his body farther through the window before falling back inside.

I find it impossible to believe he didn’t know the window was open after seeing that. In fact, I now believe the initial claims of him dangling her through the window were probably the most accurate. I thought that was unlikely early on because I was picturing a Michael Jackson style situation and what would have been his reason to do that? But now I think he was leaning her out head first so she could see down the side of the ship like he had done himself when he first walked up to the window. He was trying to show her how high up they were, which is something she couldn’t see from behind the glass of the lower row of windows — that’s why he picked her up in the first place. If that’s true, I have no sympathy for him.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

The video at the top of this page is clearer, though it’s annoying to watch because of the herky jerky speed ups and slow downs. It begins with footage from the second camera angle not shown on the Daily Mail video. It cuts before he lifts her into the window, but investigators should have no problem figuring out what happened if they have the full footage from this head-on view at their disposal.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...p/news-story/a25a25efc44148c221472417b1d222c7

 

[EMom]

The video at the top of this page is clearer, though it’s annoying to watch because of the herky jerky speed ups and slow downs. It begins with footage from the second camera angle not shown on the Daily Mail video. It cuts before he lifts her into the window, but investigators should have no problem figuring out what happened if they have the full footage from this head-on view at their disposal.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...p/news-story/a25a25efc44148c221472417b1d222c7

OMG. From that video, it is crystal clear that he knew the window was open, since he leaned out of it. He then picks her up with one arm and holds her OUTSIDE the window In truth, I had never thought he perched her on the rail, but instead believed he had placed her on the windowsill. This looks like he did even worse than that. He dangled her OUTSIDE the window, one armed, much like Michael Jackson did. And he held her out there for what seems like FOREVER. Kids at that age are so squirmy and they do things like arch their backs suddenly, so who would hold a toddler outside am incredibly window? I wouldn't even hold a sleeping puppy that way.

I understand why the family has backed him. When this happened, I told DH that if a relative was responsible for my baby's death, I didn't think I could ever be in the same room with them again. The pain would be too much. But this? I might do harm to someone who held my child outside a window and caused their death. What on earth was that man thinking? On what planet is that a good idea?

He killed her. Perhaps it was through idiocy, but he killed her.