This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[Imzadi]

if you watch the video shot from behind, you see the grandfather stand in front of the window. The guardrail is about waist high. He then leans over so far that all you can see is his lower back and legs. The rest of his body is gone. It has to be out the window.

Oh! Wow! I thought for sure that description was the side view one, where he goes out of frame behind the white pole. Holy CRAP!!!

 

[fly girl]

if you watch the video shot from behind, you see the grandfather stand in front of the window. The guardrail is about waist high. He then leans over so far that all you can see is his lower back and legs. The rest of his body is gone. It has to be out the window.

I know your point was to reiterate his head and chest were leaning far out, and I do agree he had to know the window was open -- but trust me unless you are 7 feet tall, the railing is taller than your waist. I am 5'2" and that thing came to my upper chest area.

I just don't want people to read that and think the railing was too low and place blame that RCCL should've had a higher rail.

 

[fly girl]

Well, I have gone this far into it, so I couldn't stop now. I had to see the other video. (@tzolkin I have become a truth seeker like you.)

YouTube has the entire program of La Comay and you can even see a demonstration they rigged with a makeshift railing and the distance to the window. Although I really don't think he dangled her (I can't speak Spanish but the video looks like they believe he dangled her out of the window), he was completely negligent. Maybe he thought since there was a distance between the rail and the open window she wouldn't fall out? I honestly don't know and we never will, but even to pick her up after he physically leaned over the railing is so careless. I could never even fathom doing that. And the fact it looks like she is holding on the to side beam makes me ill. How could he put her that close?! She is basically hanging on by the windowsill. GRANDPA, WHY!!??!! The entire incident is so long too. It really wasn't an instant. Maybe in real life it felt that way, but when you watch it she is on that rail for what feels like minutes.

RCCL cannot be blamed for this lack of common sense. To me, this act is similar to someone placing their child on a stateroom balcony deck rail. Totally careless and complete lack of judgement.

 

[OhhBother]

I am appalled by the outright lies that have been told. The “window in a children’s play area” is the one that gets me the most. I’m an avid cruiser. I knew it wasn’t an accurate statement from Day One. But many people have never been on a cruise, and they bought that line and blamed RCI.

There is no blocked memory or anything else when it comes to that deliberately false and misleading statement. It’s just a lawyer deliberately
trying to muddy the facts and place pressure on the cruise line for a settlement. I honestly hope RCI sues the attorney - and the family if they keep perpetuating these lies.

 

[KayaWildfire]

That video is far worse than I thought it would be. I cannot fathom how that may help their case in any way. I've always believed the grandfather at fault, not necessarily that he should go to jail. But honestly if I was him I'd take the plea and drop the civil suit and be done.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree. I'm not comfortable calling him a liar. To me, that designation means he intentionally is not telling the truth. I truly believe his mind made up a story to excuse his lapse of judgement, so it's "true" to him. I think that happened even before they found a lawyer.

Yes, I agree. I don't think he's a bad person who's purposefully trying to mislead anyone -- he's just made up something with which he can live and doesn't even realize he's done it.

I posted about false memory a ways back in the thread. Yes, it's definitely a real thing and something that we all do unconsciously all the time.

Agree. I can't tell you how many times my husband and I -- or one of my children -- talk about something, and our memories of the event are different. Sometimes significantly different. And I'm not talking about anything as serious as this tragedy -- just things like a meal or a place we visited on vacation.

 

[Dznypal]

where can I find where is video is posted--I was a what seems to be a shorter one that I used with a link on here but there seems to be another one thats a little longer

I also saw an interview with the attorney--where he said--that if a railing isnt made to sit on there should be a warning

isnt that the idea of a railing is to keep people from sitting and keeping them back from such things as opned windows--

so very sad but I sure cant see how the family and the attorney thinks this is a cruise line problem

 

[PollyannaMom]

This is so awful and sad!
I can't imagine how they will win a civil suit with the video out there (and I've only seen the short, grainy, side-view.)

Of course, I also can't imagine that the grandfather even cares what happens to him. Making such a mistake, with such horrible consequences, would be devastating for anyone.

After watching the video multiple times, and trying to reconcile it with what the grandfather and family have been saying, I don’t think the prosecutor should have offered him a plea deal. He was so reckless in endangering the baby’s life with the way he one-handed lifted her over his head and out the window. After he had stuck half his body out of the obviously open window.

Other people go to prison every day for reckless behavior. Not sure why he gets to escape punishment when so many other people who use terrible judgement don’t.

Maybe they were afraid a jury would think "he's already suffering enough" and not vote to send him to jail, so they offered the deal to assure he is actually convicted (and prevent the civil suit from going forward)?

I see why they offered the plea deal. He is living his life sentence now. Going to prison won't change what happened. And prison won't rehabilitate him. He killed his own granddaughter, and grandchildren are typically 100% unconditional love. I have said this previously in this thread, this story reminds me of the Pittsburgh Zoo case when the mom hoisted up her son to see the painted dogs and he fell in the pit. It was a total lapse in judgement, and living your life knowing what you have done is punishment enough.

Yes. The expense of keeping him locked up won't save anyone else - this isn't the type of crime (like a burglary) that someone goes out and commits again if they "get away with it."

 

[EMom]

I am going to say something that will not sit well with some. I doubt the grandfather more every day. He is a dry crier. News reports say he was sobbing when talking about this, but if you LOOK at him, he is not crying. He scrunches up his face, he vocalizes, and dabs at nonexistent tears, but he is NOT actually crying. Typically, this is done by someone whose actual emotions do not match the emotions they're trying to convince you they feel, or by someone who is deceptive. I am not saying he dropped her on purpose, but I believe he is fully aware that his story of how it happened is a lie.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The video is online at dailymail.

I finally felt I could watch the video, but, unfortunately, my adblocker blocks that site. Maybe it's better that way.

 

[fly girl]

where can I find where is video is posted--I was a what seems to be a shorter one that I used with a link on here but there seems to be another one thats a little longer

I also saw an interview with the attorney--where he said--that if a railing isnt made to sit on there should be a warning

isnt that the idea of a railing is to keep people from sitting and keeping them back from such things as opned windows--

so very sad but I sure cant see how the family and the attorney thinks this is a cruise line problem

Pea-n-Me's post on I think page 64 has the link showing the side view.

If you want to see the back view, a link is not posted on here. You'll have to go to YouTube and search La Comay December 18 show. It is the entire program and you'll have to skim forward to see this story. After they show both videos, they will do a demonstration on the railing and the distance to the window. I found that part informative even though they used a prop baby doll, seeing the distance really lets you try to analyze both videos better.

When I watched the first video (the side shot) I really thought he dangled her. But you have to realize the beams are misleading for distance, and the back view video changed my mind. I am definitely not ruling dangling out, but from that view it appears he sat her on the railing.

However, the one thing that DID NOT change by viewing both videos is that he had to know the window was open. Bending as far forward as he did, he would have known the window was open. Even if he is colorblind, he would have grazed or touched his head to the glass if it was closed. He did not. Furthermore, he would know it was open because he could hear the outdoors and the work on the dock. He would smell the ocean water. He would feel a breeze or a change of temperature on his head. There is no way he wouldn't have known that window was open.

Personally, as I said above, I think he placed her on the railing thinking that 18" was enough distance to keep her safe. It seems illogical and crazy to us, because it is (just get out a ruler and see how tiny 18" is) but that is my best guess. And it looks as though she is holding on to the support beam right at the end of the video, which is basically the windowsill. She leans forward and is gone. I just don't see any correlation to his story with banging on the glass. That is just my take.

I'd love to hear if anyone has a different hypothesis. I am trying to make sense of something you can't make sense of, which I know is futile but yet I can't stop trying.

 

[AppleDumpling]

OMG. It appears that Chloe’s grandpa has no common sense. What he did is unthinkable. He should be grateful for the plea deal; it is an act of mercy.

That poor innocent child. She must’ve been terrified in the last moments of her life.
RIP sweet angel.

 

[fly girl]

I am going to say something that will not sit well with some. I doubt the grandfather more every day. He is a dry crier. News reports say he was sobbing when talking about this, but if you LOOK at him, he is not crying. He scrunches up his face, he vocalizes, and dabs at nonexistent tears, but he is NOT actually crying. Typically, this is done by someone whose actual emotions do not match the emotions they're trying to convince you they feel, or by someone who is deceptive. I am not saying he dropped her on purpose, but I believe he is fully aware that his story of how it happened is a lie.

I have wrestled with that, and you could be correct.

I am more prone to think he blocked it out. You would have a complete physical and mental breakdown if you truly know you killed your granddaughter. I would have committed suicide, I couldn't live with myself. So I think he is in preservation mode. His brain has concocted this story to survive. I don't think he consciously knows he is lying.

I could be full of hooey, but I don't think you could live and function like he has been without blocking it out. He still has dinner with the mom and dad. If you knew you were guilty how could you look them in the eye?

 

[KayKayJS]

Oh no. The La Comay Dec 18 video on youtube is worse in my opinion. Wish I hadn't watched it. This kind of stuff makes me paranoid to let anyone watch my kid.

 

[mnrose]

Oh no. The La Comay Dec 18 video on youtube is worse in my opinion. Wish I hadn't watched it. This kind of stuff makes me paranoid to let anyone watch my kid.

Exactly. My kids are adults now, but this is the sort of thing I had nightmares about when they were small. They rarely stayed with people other than DH or I. For a reason. No one cares about your kids the way you do. No one.

 

[little tess]

It looks like the youtube video of the Puerto Rican laComay (?) Show for the 18th has been removed from view, including the surveillance video, then reposted with a different title. Maybe some removal going on due to terms of service. The links I saved last night have all been removed. There are still copies on other places on the web, but they're coming down pretty quickly. FYI

 

[QueenIsabella]

The video is still up on Youtube--you have to go to the 2-hour+ episode, and go ~40 minutes in to see it.

FTR, my DH--former firefighter (20 years!), EMT, EMT instructor, Ski patroller, outdoor emergency care--he's seen a LOT. He turned away from the "behind" video and cried. No lie. He couldn't see any more.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I wish someone would just post a link

 

[emer95]

Just go to You Tube and type in La Comay December 18th.
I just watched it. Dear God. My blood ran cold and now I feel sick to my stomach. There is no doubt, not a shadow or a hint, that the grandfather knew that window was open.

Not to go too far off topic, but what is the deal with that La Comay show? A puppet head? Is the person in disguise?

 

[Imzadi]

I am going to say something that will not sit well with some. I doubt the grandfather more every day. He is a dry crier. News reports say he was sobbing when talking about this, but if you LOOK at him, he is not crying. He scrunches up his face, he vocalizes, and dabs at nonexistent tears, but he is NOT actually crying. Typically, this is done by someone whose actual emotions do not match the emotions they're trying to convince you they feel, or by someone who is deceptive. I am not saying he dropped her on purpose, but I believe he is fully aware that his story of how it happened is a lie.

I am more prone to think he blocked it out. You would have a complete physical and mental breakdown if you truly know you killed your granddaughter.

I see several people saying he blocked it out. I think any reasonable, sensitive person would hope for, and give him a kind, compassionate excuse/explanation. While I don't believe he let her drop deliberately, maybe he's just lying his butt of, after the fact. While he says there is nothing worse that can be done to him now, actually sitting, rotting in prison would be worse. Then he'd be on suicidal watch every day.

How does an adult NOT KNOW to protect a child by an open window 11 stories up???

There is a part of me that would like to believe he is a bit autistic. (Not to take a swipe at people who have autism or that they go around accidentally killing people.) Sounds like, the way he bent over, out the window, that he hadn't even thought of any danger to himself. It didn't occur to him. Maybe some part of his brain just thought in a straight line: Open window, bring Chloe over to look out. (No thought to the danger. It didn't enter his brain.) Now hide the truth and say what lawyer is telling me to say. (And he lacks the emotion to properly cry about her. So he does what he knows is expected, or has been coached to do by his lawyer.)

When I first heard of the event, I thought maybe both sets of grandparents were on the cruise with the family as they had not spent much time with 18 mo old Chloe. That this is pretty much their first real time seeing her and getting to know her. But, the grandfather's lawyer posted many pics of them together, how they did have an ongoing relationship. The grandfather knew Chloe liked to bang on the glass at hockey games. I'd think by then, he'd have to have a reasonable knowledge that she's young, small, fragile.

Heck, I'd even take an explaination of autism in a 51 yr old adult over this blaming of RC over an unfathomable, unforeseeable situation. Especially, now having seen the side angle video. Normal, average adults do not do this. A teen yes, "Watch your little sister from going into the road." Then after a couple times they remember. But, by the time someone gets to be 51, and has had many interactions with the little girl. No.