This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[fly girl]

You're on camera wherever you go on the ship and there are cameras monitoring the sides of the ship, so I would wager a guess there are two different videos, one from inside the ship and one on the outside.

Do they? That's common belief, but I'm not so sure it's entirely true. DCL had a case several years ago of a CM who purported went overboard...but they were unable to track her final movements onboard and did not have video showing overboard. Maybe newer ships do, but I would think it's a massive retro-fit for older ships. But I can't say whether Freedom of the Seas had overboard sensors/cameras or not. Or maybe they do in certain areas. I have no doubt there's video, just what angle/view, but supposedly it very clearly shows the incident.

I don't know how many cameras they had, but since it was docked I wonder if the port has video surveillance too?

 

[lanejudy]

I don't know how many cameras they had, but since it was docked I wonder if the port has video surveillance too?

I wouldn't be surprised. I've only seen mention that the cruiseline turned over video, but there may be more. That would likely belong to the port authority or whoever owns/governs the port and dock areas. Depending on placement of the camera it may or may not show the right angle to clearly see the incident. I have no doubt the police will gather any video.

 

[fly girl]

They are finding fault with the cruise line. I give you that. But to listen to that heart wrenching interview and believe that anyone is trying to spin anything just blows my mind.

I hope they come to terms with the death of their precious child. If the cruise line needs to change something to make it safer/better, I hope they do. If there is nothing that can be done or if they have done what they can, then my hope is the family will be ready to accept that and move on.

As for the video, I can't imagine the attorney not requesting to see it. He would need to see it before this went to court.

The mom placing blame 100% on cruise line was a starting off point to spinning the story to me. It was heart wrenching, I feel absolutely awful for her loss. But her placing blame solely on RCCL is ludicrous. And the "get a fan" was a instant turn off. I know you don't want to blame your Dad, but putting it all on the cruise line for potential monetary payout feels like spinning.

I agree, I hope they will accept it and move on. I think it will end with RCCL giving a settlement, but I don't think it is fair to them. A cruise ship can only do so much. Human error is to blame for this accident, not windows that could open and close.

It is still in final stages of investigation. The police had video, and said the family could view it. They declined to see it. The attorney can request to see it, but he can't view until the investigation is complete from my understanding. The way NBC delivered that information was dubious. Like RCCL was going to destroy the tapes. Puhleeze.

 

[sam_gordon]

BS.

They immediately showed an actual picture that did show the chairs and lounges and whatever else is on that deck. No one is manipulating anything. Besides, the Today show would have been the one to make the animated picture. Not the family or the attorney.

I would not be surprised one bit if the attorney provided the animation. He's gone after cruise lines before. He's willing to spend money on an animation to try to help his clients. He probably told the Today show assistant producers... "Hey, my firm made this animation to show what it was like."

They are finding fault with the cruise line. I give you that. But to listen to that heart wrenching interview and believe that anyone is trying to spin anything just blows my mind.

Wait, you don't think the family is "spinning" the story? Trying to blame RCI 100% and claiming they should get fans or put up screens on the windows *IS* spin.

I hope they come to terms with the death of their precious child. If the cruise line needs to change something to make it safer/better, I hope they do. If there is nothing that can be done or if they have done what they can, then my hope is the family will be ready to accept that and move on.

I agree that if REASONABLE changes can be made to stop a similar accident from happening, that's great. But how do you lock the windows closed (for example) on this deck, but not any of the balconies? What about around the sports deck? What about around the helipad?

As for the video, I can't imagine the attorney not requesting to see it. He would need to see it before this went to court.

I'm sure the attorney wants to see it. But he's not ENTITLED to it until whatever point after the suit is filed.

 

[Floridaman999]

Everyone has to bungee cord themselves to the ship. Problem solved.

 

[smiths02]

I really wish I didn't watch it. I am kind of disgusted that the family was put on television at all. The only reason for that could be for the Today show to get viewers and the lawyer/family to get money. I mean there is not a rash of people falling out of cruise ship windows, it wasn't a PSA. I feel awful for the family, not criticizing them, but criticizing their lawyer and the Today show. Their grief shouldn't be our entertainment. So sad.

 

[luvsJack]

I would not be surprised one bit if the attorney provided the animation. He's gone after cruise lines before. He's willing to spend money on an animation to try to help his clients. He probably told the Today show assistant producers... "Hey, my firm made this animation to show what it was like."


Wait, you don't think the family is "spinning" the story? Trying to blame RCI 100% and claiming they should get fans or put up screens on the windows *IS* spin.

I agree that if REASONABLE changes can be made to stop a similar accident from happening, that's great. But how do you lock the windows closed (for example) on this deck, but not any of the balconies? What about around the sports deck? What about around the helipad?


I'm sure the attorney wants to see it. But he's not ENTITLED to it until whatever point after the suit is filed.

Where exactly did I say he was entitled to it??? I said he needs to see it. I said I am sure he has requested to see it. I did not say he was entitled to see it. OTOH, if the investigators were all for the parents seeing it, they should let their representative see it. If its clearly shows the grandfather is at fault, why not?

I see "spinning" a story as in adding to or taking away from it. If they are simply stating what happened and from their view RCL is negligent . they aren't spinning anything. And they weren't "claiming" anything about fans. She just said, if they need ventilation why not use a fan instead of opening a window. You are the one "spinning" a story with your assumptions about the animation (WHICH WAS DIRECTLY FOLLOWED BY AN ACTUAL PICTURE--so what does it matter what the animation showed or didn't show? Most people do not expect animation of a structure to show details anyway)

See, this is exactly what I hate. They can't just be wrong, every thing they do has to be wrong. They shouldn't place all the blame on the cruise line, I don't disagree, but finding fault in every thing two grieving parents say is just flat out wrong.

 

[luvsJack]

The mom placing blame 100% on cruise line was a starting off point to spinning the story to me. It was heart wrenching, I feel absolutely awful for her loss. But her placing blame solely on RCCL is ludicrous. And the "get a fan" was a instant turn off. I know you don't want to blame your Dad, but putting it all on the cruise line for potential monetary payout feels like spinning.

I agree, I hope they will accept it and move on. I think it will end with RCCL giving a settlement, but I don't think it is fair to them. A cruise ship can only do so much. Human error is to blame for this accident, not windows that could open and close.

It is still in final stages of investigation. The police had video, and said the family could view it. They declined to see it. The attorney can request to see it, but he can't view until the investigation is complete from my understanding. The way NBC delivered that information was dubious. Like RCCL was going to destroy the tapes. Puhleeze.

Would you want to see it, if it was your child?

And if it works like video of a car accident, he can subpoena it once a lawsuit is filed (if a lawsuit is filed).

 

[sam_gordon]

Where exactly did I say he was entitled to it??? I said he needs to see it. I said I am sure he has requested to see it. I did not say he was entitled to see it. OTOH, if the investigators were all for the parents seeing it, they should let their representative see it. If its clearly shows the grandfather is at fault, why not?

And I was explaining why he hasn't seen it... he doesn't have a claim on it yet. I'm guessing RCI offered the parents the ability to view in SJ. They're not giving the tape to the parents to take with them.

I see "spinning" a story as in adding to or taking away from it. If they are simply stating what happened and from their view RCL is negligent . they aren't spinning anything. And they weren't "claiming" anything about fans. She just said, if they need ventilation why not use a fan instead of opening a window. You are the one "spinning" a story with your assumptions about the animation (WHICH WAS DIRECTLY FOLLOWED BY AN ACTUAL PICTURE--so what does it matter what the animation showed or didn't show? Most people do not expect animation of a structure to show details anyway)

"Spinning" a story includes either lying or telling part of the story. Putting all the blame on RCI is "spin". Saying the windows are in the kids pool area is "spin". Saying "there are a million safety things that could have been done" (paraphrasing) is "spin".

The "actual picture" following the animation was video showing the pool area. It was hard to see the windows in question. And how do you know what "most people" expect to see?

See, this is exactly what I hate. They can't just be wrong, every thing they do has to be wrong. They shouldn't place all the blame on the cruise line, I don't disagree, but finding fault in every thing two grieving parents say is just flat out wrong.

Let's see, I've criticized them for letting the lawyer blame the cruise line and themselves blaming the cruise line. If that's "every thing" they've done, then yup, that's wrong. I can't imagine the grief they are going through. That should not happen to any parent. But the cruise line is not to blame. Out of the "million things" that could have been done, how about this big one... don't rest ANYONE (much less a toddler) on the railing 11 stories above the ground? I don't even criticize them for going on the Today show. I criticize them for what they said. They could have gone on with "be careful, don't let what happened to us, happen to you." But that's not what they did.

 

[DLgal]

This is going to end with Royal Caribbean installing "Do not sit children on railings" signs, every five feet ,on every railing, on every deck of every cruise ship they own, isn't it?

 

[Searc]

This is going to end with Royal Caribbean installing "Do not sit children on railings" signs, every five feet ,on every railing, on every deck of every cruise ship they own, isn't it?

Yep, though I'd much prefer "Don't act like an idiot and set a child on this 2 inch railing".

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I agree that if REASONABLE changes can be made to stop a similar accident from happening, that's great.

While I think there are changes that could be made, I wonder why they should be?

I mean the cruise industry has been in business how long? And how many times has this happened?

Yes, I know, one time is enough, but certainly there have been thousands of passengers on cruise ships that could have been in the same situation, and it didn't happen to them.

I think there's some personal responsibility here that's not being accepted by the person(s) actually responsible - the grandfather, and ultimately the parents.

 

[2Kds2K9]

Didn’t see the interview, but can only imagine the grief the entire family is feeling. However, all along I’ve questioned why does a child need to beat on a window? I’m a rules follower. If there is a barrier, I don’t cross it or allow my children to. I don’t put them over a fence for a picture, as I’ve seen a zillion times at Disney. I don’t allow them to beat on windows at the zoo or aquariums. I don’t allow them to sit on railings. By all means, I’m not perfect, but I’ve tried to teach my kids that barriers are there for a reason. But accidents do happen. I can speak first hand as my child was seriously hurt on a cruise ship and is still suffering some affects of it 15 years later. It was an accident, and I did not go after the cruise line. Not to belittle this family at all, but to me, it sounds like Grandpa is more responsible for this accident than the cruise line. In no uncertain terms, it was a horrific accident that could have been avoided if grandpa had not indulged the child and taken her over to beat on a window.

 

[sam_gordon]

While I think there are changes that could be made, I wonder why they should be?

I mean the cruise industry has been in business how long? And how many times has this happened?

Yes, I know, one time is enough, but certainly there have been thousands of passengers on cruise ships that could have been in the same situation, and it didn't happen to them.

I think there's some personal responsibility here that's not being accepted by the person(s) actually responsible - the grandfather, and ultimately the parents.

That's why I stressed the word "reasonable". I don't think there is "reasonable" thing that could be done to prevent this...

Signs saying "don't sit/stand on the rail" (really, that needs to be said?) - unreasonable
Locking the windows closed or putting screens in (but leave all the other areas "unprotected"?) - unreasonable
Some kind of decal on the windows so you know there's glass there (the tint isn't enough?) - unreasonable

I don't know, what else?

 

[KayKayJS]

I mean, they'd have to put signs everywhere saying not to lift children to or above the railing. Technically this could happen on the top deck or a balcony as well. SHOULD be known not to do but unfortunately people look to place blame anywhere but themselves.

 

[Dznypal]

Even signs wouldn’t stop some from holding a toddler on the ledge. There has to be some common sense unfortunately there is no common sense anymore all it is is someone else fault I still can’t figure how the GF didn’t know the window was open. The tinted glass. The heat breeze even smells from the dock. And besides the railings are there so people can’t get right up to the windows. And like others have said what about balconies. GF could have been out there with her. I truly feel sorry for this family however a little common sense and this have never happened

 

[mom2rtk]

I mean, they'd have to put signs everywhere saying not to lift children to or above the railing. Technically this could happen on the top deck or a balcony as well. SHOULD be known not to do but unfortunately people look to place blame anywhere but themselves.

And if there were signs in some places, but not in others, then some would take it as permission to lift over the railing anywhere there wasn't a sign.

 

[fly girl]

Would you want to see it, if it was your child?

And if it works like video of a car accident, he can subpoena it once a lawsuit is filed (if a lawsuit is filed).

LOOK BACK!!! I stated on POST #464 and #468 that I don't blame them for not watching the video. I wouldn't either.

Yes, he will have access to the tape once a lawsuit is filed. But he cannot get it right now. NBC alluded to him not being able to see it as if he should currently have access. It was dubious information.

 

[robinb]

At the risk of getting piled on, I think that while the grandfather is primarily at fault but RCCL also have some legal responsibility here. The window was open on the pool deck.

In addition, after seeing a video on YouTube (

) I could see why the grandfather might have thought the window was closed. The video was taken while in port and very other window is open, creating a pattern. The family had just boarded hours before and may not have been aware that all windows were tinted.

 

[luvsJack]

And I was explaining why he hasn't seen it... he doesn't have a claim on it yet. I'm guessing RCI offered the parents the ability to view in SJ. They're not giving the tape to the parents to take with them.

"Spinning" a story includes either lying or telling part of the story. Putting all the blame on RCI is "spin". Saying the windows are in the kids pool area is "spin". Saying "there are a million safety things that could have been done" (paraphrasing) is "spin".

The "actual picture" following the animation was video showing the pool area. It was hard to see the windows in question. And how do you know what "most people" expect to see?

Let's see, I've criticized them for letting the lawyer blame the cruise line and themselves blaming the cruise line. If that's "every thing" they've done, then yup, that's wrong. I can't imagine the grief they are going through. That should not happen to any parent. But the cruise line is not to blame. Out of the "million things" that could have been done, how about this big one... don't rest ANYONE (much less a toddler) on the railing 11 stories above the ground? I don't even criticize them for going on the Today show. I criticize them for what they said. They could have gone on with "be careful, don't let what happened to us, happen to you." But that's not what they did.

I didn’t mean just you. I meant the criticism of everything they said.

What does them taking or not taking the video with them have anything to do with anything?

The thing is, the cruise line is not to blame. But they aren’t necessarily lying either.

Your and other’s complaint was that the animation didn’t show the chairs and area between the play area and the windows. Now you are complaining that the picture, video or whatever doesnt show the windows. Maybe that’s why they used both. But either way make up your mind.