The Running Thread - 2021

How, if at all, does tread wear factor in for shoe replacement? My 1080s probably only have 200mi (at the most)...I need to update the tracking on my runs in garmin...and the rubber “lugs” on the ball of the foot are worn smooth. Dh also has 1080s (with less than 50mi on them for sure) and the tread on mine comparatively is so much worse.

I don’t think that the shoes are “dead” but I’m wondering if it’s possible to wear through the tread before the shoes are done.
 
How, if at all, does tread wear factor in for shoe replacement? My 1080s probably only have 200mi (at the most)...I need to update the tracking on my runs in garmin...and the rubber “lugs” on the ball of the foot are worn smooth. Dh also has 1080s (with less than 50mi on them for sure) and the tread on mine comparatively is so much worse.

I don’t think that the shoes are “dead” but I’m wondering if it’s possible to wear through the tread before the shoes are done.
I always have to replace mine based on tread wear before other wear. I'm a forefoot runner in FL, where pavement is wet and slippery 80% of the time: I wear down the forefoot before any wear even shows on the heel, and once that forefoot tread wears smooth, it's really risky to run outdoors. That said, some tread material is "stickier" than others - I'm getting more mileage out of my Glycerin 18s than I did the 16s; for some reason, even worn down, the 18s have more grip than the worn 16s. I've rarely gotten more than 200-250 miles out of any shoe.
 
How, if at all, does tread wear factor in for shoe replacement? My 1080s probably only have 200mi (at the most)...I need to update the tracking on my runs in garmin...and the rubber “lugs” on the ball of the foot are worn smooth. Dh also has 1080s (with less than 50mi on them for sure) and the tread on mine comparatively is so much worse.

I don’t think that the shoes are “dead” but I’m wondering if it’s possible to wear through the tread before the shoes are done.
The midsole is what you care about the most (most training shoes last between 400-600 miles - largely depending on shoe, running style, and weight of runner). That being said, if the outsole gets so bad, you may need to replace before the midsole is at its useful life.

I wear 1080s as well, and I replace at about the 400 mile point (for comparison: I am a pretty efficient 180 lb runner).

ETA: after 400 miles, I do not wear through the outsole on my 1080s, so you definitely seem to be more of a forefoot runner than me
 
The midsole is what you care about the most (most training shoes last between 400-600 miles - largely depending on shoe, running style, and weight of runner). That being said, if the outsole gets so bad, you may need to replace before the midsole is at its useful life.

I wear 1080s as well, and I replace at about the 400 mile point (for comparison: I am a pretty efficient 180 lb runner).

ETA: after 400 miles, I do not wear through the outsole on my 1080s, so you definitely seem to be more of a forefoot runner than me

See, I'm totally a heel striker though. The guy at the shoe store even commented on it the last time I was in based on my tread wear from my original 880s (which, for anyone who might be following along my shoe pains, I wore my 880s to elementary XC practice last night and when I tried to jog a lap at the end of practice with the kids they absolutely killed the back of my ankle/achilles that was bothering me so much. something that has gotten WAY better since I relaced my 1080s and went back to those. Ugh.) I have quite a bit of heel tread wear though, but it's not smooth on the heel like it is on the ball of the foot.


But what I'm getting so far is that as long as I'm not having slipping issues and I'm not feeling it in my legs, the shoes should still be good to go.
 

I notice in my hips if I need new shoes -- they start to hurt after my runs. I'm not sure if I've noticed tread changes, and I wonder if that's because I train 90% on the treadmill?
 
How, if at all, does tread wear factor in for shoe replacement? My 1080s probably only have 200mi (at the most)...I need to update the tracking on my runs in garmin...and the rubber “lugs” on the ball of the foot are worn smooth. Dh also has 1080s (with less than 50mi on them for sure) and the tread on mine comparatively is so much worse.

I don’t think that the shoes are “dead” but I’m wondering if it’s possible to wear through the tread before the shoes are done.

So far my shoes have felt dead before I've had to worry about the tread but I would keep an eye on both. My move to Kinvaras may change that for me since they have less tread than my old shoes but I generally get a few years of non-running wear out of my shoes before the tread is too far gone.

Also keep in mind that wear will change the way you land so if it is significant I'd swap them sooner rather than later.
 
Some questions for the experts re: run/walk strategy. Hopefully this is the right place...

I'm gearing up for "just" my first full marathon at WDW in January, having run the half-marathon the previous two years. My pace for those races were 12:34 and 12:51 pace, respectively. Lethargic, but I'm proud of them anyway: I'd never run an entire mile in my life before April 2019!

My training plan is fairly simple: 2-3 fairly short runs during the week, and one longer run on the weekend with a rest day after my long run. My long run right now is about 8-10 miles, at about 12:30/mile, and I increase my distance about a mile each week. I don't have specific pace targets for training runs or for my marathon, and I fully expect my marathon to take 6 hours (~14 minutes). Lethargic, but I'd be proud of that, too.

Right now, my conditioning is okay, but not the best it's been. As summer heat has died down, I've really only been consistently progressing for the past 2-3 weeks. I tend to run the first few miles without slowing down, then take periodic walking breaks thereafter if I get winded or if my HR drifts higher than I like. Lately I try to pay more attention to HR (via Apple Watch / Nike Run Club app) than to pace to make sure I don't overexert myself.

I know that Disney promotes the Jeff Galloway run/walk method, but as somebody who's only trained up to 13.1 miles before now, it always felt silly (and more than a little annoying) to change pace constantly. I'd rather avoid it and be a Real Runner (or at least Real Jogger) but I don't want pride to hurt my performance or get me injured. To me, it feels more natural to run as much as I'm able, at a slower pace if need be, and walk only when I really need to (preferably timed for water stations or photo ops).

To my questions are...

Is the run/walk method a consensus recommendation for somebody in my position, or is that a divisive question in this community?


If it is recommended, how do folks track their run/walk time when the intervals are so dang short? Just constantly look at a stopwatch? Use some other app? Count in your head and get so used to it that you just have an internal clock for it?


How does this work on race day? I'd be afraid I'd get run down by the folks behind me if I'm constantly changing pace.


==

ETA: If this isn't the right place, and I should start a thread in the Running Journal sub instead, let me know and I'll be happy to relocate!
 
I’m really confident that NO ONE in this group will tell you that you are not a runner because of using intervals. This is not that group. There are plenty of people here that use intervals, and plenty that don’t. We do what works for us as individuals.

I’m also training for my first marathon. And I got stuck in the “real runner” mindset too. And then I ran a half back in May and it was ok but I was dying at the end. DYING. And I ran another half (on my own) in August with a worse time than May, despite training all summer. May was just under 13:00 pace and August was just over 13:00. I made my husband come bike with me for the last 5k so I wouldn’t cheat/quit early. At that point I decided to try intervals for any runs over about 6-7 miles (which is usually when I hit my first “this is getting really difficult” hurdle) and it was a complete game changer. I just did an 11mi training run on the 3rd and felt great the whole time. I’m still a real runner and I enjoy my long runs SO MUCH MORE. I really feel like I’m going to be capable of 12:00 miles by using intervals for my full next month.

i use a Tabata timer on my phone for the intervals, there are tons of apps you can use, and quite a few running/smart watches have interval options too.
 
Is the run/walk method a consensus recommendation for somebody in my position, or is that a divisive question in this community?

Not necessarily. If you want to be a continuous runner, then you can attempt to be a continuous runner. If you want to do run/walk, then you can do run/walk. Or you can do a mix of the two (like mid-week runs are continuous and weekends are run/walk). Your current fitness doesn't necessarily dictate one way or the other. I've helped runners faster than you that do continuous or run/walk or hybrid, and I've worked with runners slower than you that do continuous or run/walk or hybrid. With that in mind, in order to be a continuous runner you have to be capable of running slow enough. I've helped with some runners who want to be continuous runners, but the issue is they can't comfortably go as slow as I would like them to for their easy/long run days. So sometimes we have to get creative on how to make that happen.

With all that in mind, the one thing you probably don't want to be doing is continuous running until you're tired and then adding in walking breaks intermittently. That to me says the training is too tough. Because ideally you shouldn't need walking breaks during continuous running when the volume and pace is appropriate.

I think I'd point to this as a starting point:

My pace for those races were 12:34 and 12:51 pace, respectively.
My long run right now is about 8-10 miles, at about 12:30/mile

Your previous two HMs were at 12:34 and 12:51 pace, yet you're doing your long runs at the same or faster pace. Which to me says you're racing every weekend, or your current fitness is far better today than it was during those races. If you're not in a better place right now, then that's going to make the training far far harder than it should be. Let's assume you're in the same fitness as you were when you ran the 2:45 marathon.

Screen Shot 2021-09-15 at 6.58.49 PM.png

My recommendation for your easy/long run pacing if you want to be a continuous runner is at 14:18 or slower. That's going to go a long way in making the training easier. Which in turn will help you get better despite that sounding counterintuitive.

Screen Shot 2021-09-15 at 6.59.00 PM.png

If instead you wanted to run/walk, then you'd want to aim for around 15:07 min/mile (that's Galloway's M Tempo + 2 min recommendation).

So either method says to me you need to slow down in training. That'll go a long way.

My other recommendation is to find a training plan to stick to. It'll go a long way in helping you especially for your first marathon. There's nuance to training plan writing and I feel strongly you'll do better on something proven like Galloway's runDisney program or plenty of other sources out there. Just find something that aligns with your availability and isn't a huge stretch from what you've been doing recently. IE don't go from 10 miles a week and start a 50 mile a week training plan with no history of anything in between just because you have the availability for it. With that being said, I think you may find that slowing down will enable you to feel better during training and consider adding a fourth day if availability aligns with it. Four days per week will open you up to plenty of traditional marathon training plans.

If it is recommended, how do folks track their run/walk time when the intervals are so dang short? Just constantly look at a stopwatch? Use some other app? Count in your head and get so used to it that you just have an internal clock for it?

My daughter and I use a Garmin Workout that I made on Garmin Connect (desktop version). I just made a workout called 30/30 that alternates between running and walking for 30 seconds. So it beeps at me starting at 5 seconds out when it's time to switch whatever I'm doing. I've seen an "interval" feature on the watch itself, but I haven't played around with it. This is method is easy enough for me.

I believe Galloway also has a device you can buy that can keep track of the interval durations.

How does this work on race day? I'd be afraid I'd get run down by the folks behind me if I'm constantly changing pace.

Depending on the race, I'm not sure you'll have too much trouble. I can't speak from experience on this one though as I haven't used run/walk in a race. But from what I understand, the key is just making sure you allow others to know that you're about to change. I believe the idea is to move to one side (don't know which) and raise your hand up. This signifies a coming change. Others will hopefully chime in with personal experience on this one.
 
My recommendation for your easy/long run pacing if you want to be a continuous runner is at 14:18 or slower. That's going to go a long way in making the training easier. Which in turn will help you get better despite that sounding counterintuitive.
I am reading and digesting everything you wrote, which is incredibly helpful -- THANK YOU!

I admit that this is breaking my brain a bit. I've wanted to train at faster than my target pace, on the theory that I will be slower at longer distances. But I do feel like I've overexerted myself (last week I was EXHAUSTED all day after a run, which is why I started paying more attention to HR).

I will try running at a slower pace, and if I can't be disciplined about keeping my speed down, try run/walk.

Thanks again!!
 
Some questions for the experts re: run/walk strategy. Hopefully this is the right place...

I'm gearing up for "just" my first full marathon at WDW in January, having run the half-marathon the previous two years. My pace for those races were 12:34 and 12:51 pace, respectively. Lethargic, but I'm proud of them anyway: I'd never run an entire mile in my life before April 2019!

My training plan is fairly simple: 2-3 fairly short runs during the week, and one longer run on the weekend with a rest day after my long run. My long run right now is about 8-10 miles, at about 12:30/mile, and I increase my distance about a mile each week. I don't have specific pace targets for training runs or for my marathon, and I fully expect my marathon to take 6 hours (~14 minutes). Lethargic, but I'd be proud of that, too.

Right now, my conditioning is okay, but not the best it's been. As summer heat has died down, I've really only been consistently progressing for the past 2-3 weeks. I tend to run the first few miles without slowing down, then take periodic walking breaks thereafter if I get winded or if my HR drifts higher than I like. Lately I try to pay more attention to HR (via Apple Watch / Nike Run Club app) than to pace to make sure I don't overexert myself.

I know that Disney promotes the Jeff Galloway run/walk method, but as somebody who's only trained up to 13.1 miles before now, it always felt silly (and more than a little annoying) to change pace constantly. I'd rather avoid it and be a Real Runner (or at least Real Jogger) but I don't want pride to hurt my performance or get me injured. To me, it feels more natural to run as much as I'm able, at a slower pace if need be, and walk only when I really need to (preferably timed for water stations or photo ops).

To my questions are...

Is the run/walk method a consensus recommendation for somebody in my position, or is that a divisive question in this community?


If it is recommended, how do folks track their run/walk time when the intervals are so dang short? Just constantly look at a stopwatch? Use some other app? Count in your head and get so used to it that you just have an internal clock for it?


How does this work on race day? I'd be afraid I'd get run down by the folks behind me if I'm constantly changing pace.


==

ETA: If this isn't the right place, and I should start a thread in the Running Journal sub instead, let me know and I'll be happy to relocate!
For intervals, I found the absolutely most basic app possible, called “RunIntervals” in the App Store. I just have to set what my run and walk intervals should be, and it just keeps repeating them until I hit stop. I tried other apps that wanted me to input how many times the intervals should repeat, and I was like “how should I know exactly how long this run will take until I do the darn thing?!”

I don’t find the pace changes annoying at all because I can’t run continuously for more than a few minutes max anyway, and having the intervals set keeps me from overdoing it like I did in the first couple weeks of my last training plan. The only time the pace changes are irritating is when I’m stuck on the treadmill, since I have to try to hit buttons while also not falling on my face 😆😆
 
Some questions for the experts re: run/walk strategy. Hopefully this is the right place...

I'm gearing up for "just" my first full marathon at WDW in January, having run the half-marathon the previous two years. My pace for those races were 12:34 and 12:51 pace, respectively. Lethargic, but I'm proud of them anyway: I'd never run an entire mile in my life before April 2019!

My training plan is fairly simple: 2-3 fairly short runs during the week, and one longer run on the weekend with a rest day after my long run. My long run right now is about 8-10 miles, at about 12:30/mile, and I increase my distance about a mile each week. I don't have specific pace targets for training runs or for my marathon, and I fully expect my marathon to take 6 hours (~14 minutes). Lethargic, but I'd be proud of that, too.

Right now, my conditioning is okay, but not the best it's been. As summer heat has died down, I've really only been consistently progressing for the past 2-3 weeks. I tend to run the first few miles without slowing down, then take periodic walking breaks thereafter if I get winded or if my HR drifts higher than I like. Lately I try to pay more attention to HR (via Apple Watch / Nike Run Club app) than to pace to make sure I don't overexert myself.

I know that Disney promotes the Jeff Galloway run/walk method, but as somebody who's only trained up to 13.1 miles before now, it always felt silly (and more than a little annoying) to change pace constantly. I'd rather avoid it and be a Real Runner (or at least Real Jogger) but I don't want pride to hurt my performance or get me injured. To me, it feels more natural to run as much as I'm able, at a slower pace if need be, and walk only when I really need to (preferably timed for water stations or photo ops).

To my questions are...

Is the run/walk method a consensus recommendation for somebody in my position, or is that a divisive question in this community?


If it is recommended, how do folks track their run/walk time when the intervals are so dang short? Just constantly look at a stopwatch? Use some other app? Count in your head and get so used to it that you just have an internal clock for it?


How does this work on race day? I'd be afraid I'd get run down by the folks behind me if I'm constantly changing pace.


==

ETA: If this isn't the right place, and I should start a thread in the Running Journal sub instead, let me know and I'll be happy to relocate!
My personal adaptation to the Galloway method is that I walk through the water stops. They are spaced every mile to 1.5 miles, so instead of trying to drink while running, that is my walk break and my hydration. If I'm on a longer run (like the marathon) and need a walk break, I count 50 steps and go back to running. It does work.
 
Some questions for the experts re: run/walk strategy. Hopefully this is the right place...

I'm gearing up for "just" my first full marathon at WDW in January, having run the half-marathon the previous two years. My pace for those races were 12:34 and 12:51 pace, respectively. Lethargic, but I'm proud of them anyway: I'd never run an entire mile in my life before April 2019!

My training plan is fairly simple: 2-3 fairly short runs during the week, and one longer run on the weekend with a rest day after my long run. My long run right now is about 8-10 miles, at about 12:30/mile, and I increase my distance about a mile each week. I don't have specific pace targets for training runs or for my marathon, and I fully expect my marathon to take 6 hours (~14 minutes). Lethargic, but I'd be proud of that, too.

Right now, my conditioning is okay, but not the best it's been. As summer heat has died down, I've really only been consistently progressing for the past 2-3 weeks. I tend to run the first few miles without slowing down, then take periodic walking breaks thereafter if I get winded or if my HR drifts higher than I like. Lately I try to pay more attention to HR (via Apple Watch / Nike Run Club app) than to pace to make sure I don't overexert myself.

I know that Disney promotes the Jeff Galloway run/walk method, but as somebody who's only trained up to 13.1 miles before now, it always felt silly (and more than a little annoying) to change pace constantly. I'd rather avoid it and be a Real Runner (or at least Real Jogger) but I don't want pride to hurt my performance or get me injured. To me, it feels more natural to run as much as I'm able, at a slower pace if need be, and walk only when I really need to (preferably timed for water stations or photo ops).

To my questions are...

Is the run/walk method a consensus recommendation for somebody in my position, or is that a divisive question in this community?



If it is recommended, how do folks track their run/walk time when the intervals are so dang short? Just constantly look at a stopwatch? Use some other app? Count in your head and get so used to it that you just have an internal clock for it?


How does this work on race day? I'd be afraid I'd get run down by the folks behind me if I'm constantly changing pace.


Not an expert, but I use the Galloway method so I hope that I can add some insight:

I LOVE the run/walk method. I've done two half marathons - one as part of a Disney challenge - and would NEVER have been able to do it without this method. I just can't consistently for long periods of time. But I am overly persistent (read: stubborn) and can do short intervals of running over and over (and over and over) again. As for people who might say I am not a "real runner" because I use this method, I honestly DO NOT CARE. My marathon is the same 26.2 miles as anyone else's. I don't care how they got to the finish line nor should anyone else worry about how I get there. But to answer your question - do you have to do it? NO! You do what works for you. That being said, there is a lot of evidence that you can actually go faster using proper run/walk intervals. You aren't wearing yourself out in the first half of the race and then gradually getting slower and slower as you go on. It makes it much easier to maintain a steady race pace. (If you want all of the scientific information on how and why it works, it is readily available online).

On to the next question, I have an app on my phone (Android) called Seconds that is a super simple interval timer. It works in the background so I can listen to the music in my headphones and beeps the interval times. I can also use the training feature on my Garmin watch, which will vibrate at the change of pace. But if you do the same interval for a while, you do start to get a sense for when an interval is just about up.

As for race day, let me tell you that there are A LOT of people who run/walk at Disney. As someone already mentioned, when you go to walk, you just raise your hand and slow down (do NOT just stop abruptly). I tend to look behind me to make sure that there isn't someone immediately behind me before I do so. One thing that I found in the Princess 10K was that my intervals go all messed up on course because it was so dang crowded. I got to a point where I ran when I could and walked when I needed to. That's where the clock in my head came in really handy.

I admit that this is breaking my brain a bit. I've wanted to train at faster than my target pace, on the theory that I will be slower at longer distances. But I do feel like I've overexerted myself (last week I was EXHAUSTED all day after a run, which is why I started paying more attention to HR).

As my physical therapist (who is a runner and sees A LOT of runners in his practice) always tries to drive home, you get faster by being able to run consistently. If you are always on the edge of your limitations, you are setting yourself up to overtrain and get HURT. Then you are going to be out of running completely and needing to try to rebuild your lost conditioning, which stinks. I can speak from personal experience as I am grounded to biking only right now. I'm getting to the point of being ready to kill for run of any sort and watching the days tick by is agonizing.

Below is a video that my PT did just today about the concept:


The other thing is that you might be consistently going up in miles each week. My PT usually recommends going up for two weeks and then scaling back 30% on the third week. I think that the Galloway training plan that is on the runDisney site uses a similar methodology. You just can't keep pounding your body week after week after week and expect it to hold up. The training program that my PT recommends also has a lot of strength work incorporated to try to prevent injuries. (Now, if I listened to his advice, I might not be in his office right, but what can I say? I'm a runner and that can cloud my judgement)

b71f93942307235a17a1bae9ad006c69.jpg
 
I admit that this is breaking my brain a bit. I've wanted to train at faster than my target pace, on the theory that I will be slower at longer distances. But I do feel like I've overexerted myself (last week I was EXHAUSTED all day after a run, which is why I started paying more attention to HR).

I understand this mindset completely as it was the trap I fell into when first starting running. I think a lot of people do. But, as counterintuitive as it may seem, you will get faster and stay healthier if you slow down a little now. I am a continuous runner because, like you mentioned earlier, I am one of those that finds the constant stopping and starting more annoying than just slowing down. I also am not particularly fast. I know people who run/walk faster than I run.
If you Are more comfortable run/walking, you should definitely not feel self-conscious about doing that. Especially at a rundisney race. I would say that at any given distance it seems like close to half of the people are run/walking. There may be some perception bias going on there, but it feels like there are more run/walkers and straight up walkers at some of those races than continuous runners. Whether it’s continuous or not doesn’t make you a real runner. Running makes you a runner!
 
I admit that this is breaking my brain a bit. I've wanted to train at faster than my target pace, on the theory that I will be slower at longer distances. But I do feel like I've overexerted myself (last week I was EXHAUSTED all day after a run, which is why I started paying more attention to HR).

I will try running at a slower pace, and if I can't be disciplined about keeping my speed down, try run/walk.

You really do have to slow down to build the endurance. The sooner you embrace that, the better you'll be in the long run. *pun intended*
 
I've helped with some runners who want to be continuous runners, but the issue is they can't comfortably go as slow as I would like them to for their easy/long run days. So sometimes we have to get creative on how to make that happen.

IT ME!!! I'm terrible about training when I don't have a race to actually train for, so I tend to practically stop running for months at a time. When I start back up, I'm always rusty and slow enough that I can't physically move slow enough for my easy training paces and I have to do intervals or I end up going too hard.

It's frustrating to me personally, because when I'm timing my run portion I get fixated on that ticking number and the run actually feels harder to me than if I don't have to pay attention to the time. So rather than time, I've found other ways to do intervals while I still need them. I do a lot of training on my treadmill, so I'll do a manual run with the screen cleared except for the track image, and pick a couple of points on the track where I switch between running and walking each lap. Or I might mix it up and do an iFit interval or easy run program, even if the mileage isn't quite what's on my plan that day. (My tread has a feature where I can adjust the speed to my level and the program adjusts accordingly for the rest of the workout.) The variety keeps my mind entertained until I get my feet back under me enough to continuously run.
 
How, if at all, does tread wear factor in for shoe replacement? My 1080s probably only have 200mi (at the most)...I need to update the tracking on my runs in garmin...and the rubber “lugs” on the ball of the foot are worn smooth. Dh also has 1080s (with less than 50mi on them for sure) and the tread on mine comparatively is so much worse.

I don’t think that the shoes are “dead” but I’m wondering if it’s possible to wear through the tread before the shoes are done.

Tread wear is my #1 reason for buying new running shoes.

I tend to replace my shoes the moment I feel or notice that the tread is going. I don't really notice it so much if I'm running on dry ground but if I'm running on wet ground the loss of friction becomes really noticeable for me. One time I did a 10k race where there had been heavy rain the night before in shoes that didn't have much tread left (hadn't noticed how bad it was because was mainly running on dry ground with them). The parts of the course that were dry were fine, but some parts were still really slick from the rain and if I tried to run on those parts I would feel like I was slipping due to the lack of tread on those shoes.

That being said, the type of shoes I run in (mostly On Cloudsurfers) seems to have an issue with the tread wearing down really quickly. Don't remember other shoe types I had in the past having such an issue with tread wear...
 












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