The Running Thread - 2016

[BuckeyeBama]

At this point I'd stick with Galloway if that's working for you.

I agree - I hate Galloway's programs, but they clearly work well for a lot of people.

 

[DopeyBadger]

You're right, was my first half and now first full. My fitness level was pretty high when I picked this up. 40 minutes of cardio five days a week at the gym plus weight training, also cardio on the weekend. My first setback was when I first started in March. Week 4 I sort of just kept going feeling pretty good and got some tendatis in my foot from running miles having not run outdoors on pavement for any length of time for probably a decade. I also tied my shoes tight to try to avoid blisters...suffice to say, I've learned a lot since then.

Sounds good. I'll add that Galloway can definitely work as I used it to complete my first Dopey. Two things that I learned about Galloway plans after using it after understanding running more is

1) It is meant for run/walkers, so if you continuously run then the mileage may no longer be appropriate as it changes what the workout will do to your body. By run/walking you continuously allow the fatigue in the body to stay below the lactate threshold (simplified). But the same can't be said for continuous running the same distance at the same pace.
2) The pace of the weekend long run should be 2 minutes slower than your goal marathon pace (which can be determined using a race equivalency calculator like McMillan from your W&D HM). I "raced" every workout and this again doesn't elicit the benefits from the workout that Galloway is trying to get to with his designed plan. You'd think I need to practice my goal marathon pace on my long run, but it doesn't really work that way physiologically. You could consider practicing some race day pace on Tues/Thurs but not much so on the Galloway long run.

Have fun with your first marathon! It's a great feeling!

 

[Keels]

I agree - I hate Galloway's programs, but they clearly work well for a lot of people.

+1. I'm a Higdon gal, but I understand why people follow Galloway. For ME - and this was me - I think his emphasis on over-mileage is too much.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That said, I would never change training plans this close to a major race, especially a first race. You're basically four weeks out, OP, since you're doing a two-week taper. I would just stick with what has been working for you so far - and this may come across as a little tough, but I think it's almost irresponsible for anyone to suggest a dramatic change in training for you at this point in the game. Just finish out this training plan and then learn from your first Marathon - THEN, apply those lessons to your next training cycle.

 

[FFigawi]

It is a widely accepted norm that in order to run trails you need a big beard and a fondness for granola. While I like my granola as much as the next guy, I have never for the life of me been able to grow a beard, let alone a bushy outdoorsy one. I also find the beard requirement discriminating towards women. Norms are meant to be broken and I refuse to buy into this one!

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

 

[Ariel484]

I agree - I hate Galloway's programs, but they clearly work well for a lot of people.

Yeah, I used one for my first half and it got me to the finish, but I personally
am not a fan anymore.

But whether I like them or not, 6ish weeks out when it is working well doesn't seem like the time to change things up.

 

[keahgirl8]

+1. I'm a Higdon gal, but I understand why people follow Galloway. For ME - and this was me - I think his emphasis on over-mileage is too much.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That said, I would never change training plans this close to a major race, especially a first race. You're basically four weeks out, OP, since you're doing a two-week taper. I would just stick with what has been working for you so far - and this may come across as a little tough, but I think it's almost irresponsible for anyone to suggest a dramatic change in training for you at this point in the game. Just finish out this training plan and then learn from your first Marathon - THEN, apply those lessons to your next training cycle.

I have only ever done the Galloway plan, so I really have nothing to compare it to, but it really works for me. I think that proves the point a lot of people were making with the question of the day answer. There really isn't one answer for everything. If Galloway is working for you, go for it! Either way, I'd agree that changing plans this close to the race is probably unwise. Then again, someone could come on here and say "I switched right before my race and it was fantastic!" lol

 

[CP3uhoh]

Sounds good. I'll add that Galloway can definitely work as I used it to complete my first Dopey. Two things that I learned about Galloway plans after using it after understanding running more is

1) It is meant for run/walkers, so if you continuously run then the mileage may no longer be appropriate as it changes what the workout will do to your body. By run/walking you continuously allow the fatigue in the body to stay below the lactate threshold (simplified). But the same can't be said for continuous running the same distance at the same pace.
2) The pace of the weekend long run should be 2 minutes slower than your goal marathon pace (which can be determined using a race equivalency calculator like McMillan from your W&D HM). I "raced" every workout and this again doesn't elicit the benefits from the workout that Galloway is trying to get to with his designed plan. You'd think I need to practice my goal marathon pace on my long run, but it doesn't really work that way physiologically. You could consider practicing some race day pace on Tues/Thurs but not much so on the Galloway long run.

Have fun with your first marathon! It's a great feeling!

I'm sort of finding what others have found. I started with the run walk method then ran my first race (10-mile) and just ran the whole thing because no one else was walking. I noticed while training that I just ran slightly faster during the interval and achieved the same time. For the half I ran the whole thing and walked through the water stations.

I can already tell that it would be almost impossible to improve your time with a plan likke his. I'm starting to plateau now at about 9:30/mi for the looong runs and 9:00 for half or less.

To be honest ,I'm finding the mental part of this just as fun/challenging as the physical. You don't really realize all the effort that goes into it outside the actual running. THANKS for all the feedback.

 

[Baloo in MI]

ATTQOTD: I think I would echo much of what has been said about running form, foot strike, types of shoes, etc. But specific for me is simply my size. I am a big guy, I don't exactly fit the runner's build stereotype. I do get conscious of it at times, but I am what I am. I like to blame it on my genetics; I come from a family of "healthy" men. But it is a balance of the genetics and a love for ice cream! So I don't exactly fit the norm of a runner or at least what I think a runner should be... Interesting. Whatever, I love running.

@Waiting2goback happy to hear that your injury is improving and good to see you are back on the thread. I miss your inspirational quotes!

 

[Miranda]

I used Galloway in 2015 for both my rD races, then this year I used Higdon, and I would agree with most of what was said about his plans. Maybe Higdon or something like that will work better for me if I get to a point where I am running more, but trying to do a Higdon plan while still run/walking did not work out so well for me in 2016. I did not feel like I had the stamina to finish my races only going out to 10 miles for the long run. I hated going that long when I was doing Galloway (I went out to 13 for both my training cycles in the last 2 long runs, instead of the 13 then 14 he called for on the longest one), and I am sure I would have hated it if I did it again, but I felt more prepared to tackle the whole race distance last year than I did this year.

We'll see what happens next year, as I would like to move away from doing such short intervals (currently I do 90/30 ones).

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm sort of finding what others have found. I started with the run walk method then ran my first race (10-mile) and just ran the whole thing because no one else was walking. I noticed while training that I just ran slightly faster during the interval and achieved the same time. For the half I ran the whole thing and walked through the water stations.

An important thing to remember is that stylistically how you choose to train should also determine how you should race. If you train with run/walk using a Galloway plan, then I urge you to also race using a run/walk using a very similar (preferably the same) interval breakdown. Don't worry so much about the people around you and what they're doing. Worry about seeing them at the finish line when you can hive-five each other on your great accomplishment.

The reason you want to race as you train is because of how the body adapts to the training. By using a run/walk training system you will get very good at run/walk. You will improve your lactate threshold clearance allowing you to run longer distances. But if you choose to continuous run during the race, or choose to change your intervals, then you're no longer using the skill set you trained for. Now you instead are using muscles differently, not allowing rest, and relying on your running economy (or ability to maintain your lactate threshold at a set pace). Because these things haven't been maximized during training then you might not do as well on race day (especially in a marathon) as you could if you just stick to what your training adapted your body to.

I can already tell that it would be almost impossible to improve your time with a plan likke his.

It's possible that based on your running characteristics his plan might not be for you (or stylistically run/walk). But as @Keels said, it would be best to continue using the plan as Galloway developed since that's what you've been adapting your body to (and thus maximizing your skill set). If you choose to try something else for your next race so be it.

However, on a more global scale. A plan like Galloway's (or a run/walk method) is definitely appropriate for a subset of the running community and they can definitely improve their times. More specifically someone who is really good at lactate threshold clearance as a unique characteristic of their running can flourish using a run/walk method. One reason is because there are some people that have a certain muscle fiber make-up that makes them much better at speed (just one reason). This speed can be used in short bursts (30 sec, 60 sec, 180 sec, etc.) and then during the walk, they have the special ability to drop their lactate levels (a marker for fatigue) to a much lower amount then some other runners. This enables them to be able to go into a speed session again. Whereas, if they changed to a continuous running style they may find they aren't as characteristically setup for it (based on muscle fibers and other physical properties).

I'm starting to plateau now at about 9:30/mi for the looong runs and 9:00 for half or less.

This is a very important point. If I am interpreting this correctly (and by all means correct me if I'm not), then you're judging your improvement (or the plateau) on the ability to run your long run at a 9:30 min/mile. Just remember that the intent of the long run is not to see how fast you can run that distance. It's to train and adapt your body to the needs it will need to run 26.2 miles. For example, you say you are roughly a 9:00 min/mile Half-Marathoner. Thus, per McMillan:



You can see that your estimated marathon time is 9:29 (4:08:20). Now, it's your first marathon so I wouldn't worry about the actual race day finish time as much as completion. But the important part about this number is for training purposes. As I said in my original reply, I'm a big believer that pace is a very important determinant as to whether something is appropriate. Per Galloway's instructions provided in the WDW marathon plan, you are to run the long run "at least 2 min slower than goal pace". Thus, you should be doing your long run at a 11:29 min/mile or slower. You might think, well I "can" run it faster. Yes, you can. And you will on race day. But for the purpose of training it's important to remember that we aren't "racing" during training. We're providing a stimulus to the body that causes an adaptation to allow you to run/walk a 9:29 min/mile for 26.2 miles. So if you take one message away from me it's to follow Galloway's instructions for his plan's long run. Which means you should run a 11:29 min/mile during long run training. Just so you know his "2 min slower" recommendation on long runs is not unique to him. All plans you find will suggest training at a slower pace during the long run so that it elicits the correct benefit (and adaptations).

What will happen if you train at a 9:30 min/mile long run? You would think well then this will make me faster. Not so much. It will cause you to continuously "race" the weekend training run. You'll be able to complete the 17 miler, the 20 miler, the 23 miler, but you very likely will find the fatigue to start to build. On race day it might not go as well as you had hoped merely because you elicited a large amount of fatigue from these training runs that you can't overcome on race day. This isn't because the mileage is inappropriate necessarily, but because the pace you trained at them would be.

To be honest ,I'm finding the mental part of this just as fun/challenging as the physical. You don't really realize all the effort that goes into it outside the actual running. THANKS for all the feedback.

Happy to help!

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

Getting on a plane to head to WDW for a week! Looking forward to a great trip and I may even sneak a few runs in too...we're staying at Old Key West so hoping to do the early morning OKW-golf course-SSR-Disney Springs route. Tossed a running outfit in the little guy's suitcase too but not sure he'll be up for any running...have a great week folks!

 

[croach]

Getting on a plane to head to WDW for a week! Looking forward to a great trip and I may even sneak a few runs in too...we're staying at Old Key West so hoping to do the early morning OKW-golf course-SSR-Disney Springs route. Tossed a running outfit in the little guy's suitcase too but not sure he'll be up for any running...have a great week folks!

Have a great time Mike!

 

[LSUlakes]

Getting on a plane to head to WDW for a week! Looking forward to a great trip and I may even sneak a few runs in too...we're staying at Old Key West so hoping to do the early morning OKW-golf course-SSR-Disney Springs route. Tossed a running outfit in the little guy's suitcase too but not sure he'll be up for any running...have a great week folks!

I know I just went, but if you could get the plane to swing by Baton Rouge to pick me up that would be great! lol Hope you have a great trip!

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: It's the end of the month. What is your monthly mileage for November?

ATTQOTD: Unless I run today, I am coming in with a crowd pleasing 45.66 miles.

 

[FFigawi]

QOTD: It's the end of the month. What is your monthly mileage for November?

26.2! Well, and two super easy, super short runs here, but really only the 26.2 counts.

@LSUlakes 45.67 would've been better. Get out there and make it so.

 

[gjramsey]

November totals:

Miles: 232.86
Pace: 8:20
Time: 32:22:25

Another solid month of training. Monthly total is a new record high for me by almost 23 miles.

7 weeks to go to Houston Chevron and feeling like I am in a really good place for the race. I am going to find some wood to knock on, so that the feeling continues!

 

[Ariel484]

QOTD: It's the end of the month. What is your monthly mileage for November?

112.4 - today's a yoga day so that's my final total for the month.

I missed 1 planned run this month (which I don't regret, it was the right decision), so I am happy with how November went.

 

[CP3uhoh]

November totals:

Miles: 232.86
Pace: 8:20
Time: 32:22:25

Another solid month of training. Monthly total is a new record high for me by almost 23 miles.

7 weeks to go to Houston Chevron and feeling like I am in a really good place for the race. I am going to find some wood to knock on, so that the feeling continues!

nice, I'll see you there (and maybe a few thousand other people). Currently I'm freaking out about the weather this weekend as I have about 3 hours of training to get in on the road.

 

[gjramsey]

nice, I'll see you there (and maybe a few thousand other people). Currently I'm freaking out about the weather this weekend as I have about 3 hours of training to get in on the road.

Cool, we need a group picture of us on the board that will be at Houston.

Yeah, this weekend is not looking so hot for the long runs (I have 26 miles planned over Sat and Sun). Since the Houston weather people are already talking up the rain for the weekend, I am hoping they are as wrong as the usually are!

 

[MommaoffherRocker]

ATTQOTD: Today is a rest day so my total for November is 123.85 miles. A new PR for me and I had to calculate it like 5 times to make sure it was really that high. I feel like I have come a long way these past few months!