The Running Thread - 2016

[BuckeyeBama]

ATTQOTD - I have found that running maxims are helpful to consider, and that the more you know, the more you realize that there is so much more out there that you don't know. Just like in the rest of my life, I listen to all sorts of running advice, and then apply my personal filter. I am happy that the information is out there and that so many people are trying to help me, but it is up to me to figure out what advice is good for me, and what might not be. Heck, I don't even mind the folks out the preaching the "gospel" about their particular running maxim of maximum excellence. They, too, are trying to help (though a few can be condescending as they do so).

What have I learned? That things that worked well for me 30 years ago (or even 5 years ago) are now harmful to me. Even as an experiment of one, we are not the same person when we go out the door today as we were yesterday, or last week, or last year. So, even when we find things that help us physically, we have to be open to change. We are not static beings, so we must remain open to new ideas.

About the only thing universally true about running is that it brings people together in unexpected ways.

 

[keahgirl8]

View attachment 207688

I'm back!!!

YAY!! Congrats! I hope this will be me soon.

Good morning everyone and hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and weekend. Congrats to all those who raced over the holiday!

QOTD: Give your thoughts on core strength training. How much gives you most of the benefit? Which exercises should we do (or do you do)? Is it helpful?

No idea. I don't do enough of it, and that's probably why I'm in this boat to start with. I know...I know...more yoga!

Proper form. I don't buy that there's one proper form to fit everyone. I think what you do naturally is best for you, and trying to force a radical change can cause injury. Sure, mid-foot or forefoot striking is generally more biomechanically efficient and pretty much a requirement at the elite and sub-elite levels, but if your body is built to heel strike, moving to a forefoot stride can do more harm than good.

True! I don't really worry about form. If it feels good to me, that's how I run.

Is it bad that my answer is "most things"? I can't think of a specific example but I feel like I see people (here on the DIS and elsewhere) quote some things like they are "gospel" - how to train, form, how to fuel, etc. - when no one can say for certain what works best for every single person. We are all different and it takes experimentation to find what works best - or, said way more eloquently, "we are all an experiment of one."

Yup. Pretty much!

You have to rotate shoes every other day. The shoes are foam and plastic, nothing magical happens after 24 hours to that material.

Undertrained is better than injured on race day. I agree with this, but this statement I feel is used too often to skip a workout, sleep in, cut a workout short, skip a few intervals, etc. Or maybe I just need better ability to see into the future.

Yes to the shoes! I wear one pair until I wear them out and I've never had a problem.

YES. I could not agree more. While I agree with this to some degree, people go into a race woefully underprepared and just think they can will themselves to finish. You can...but you could pay for it.

I have been quiet on the thread as of late because I feel disconnected not being able to run still. But, I read @FFigawi 's race report and I wanted to say congratulations on a job well done John. I was following along on race day but it's fun hear all the details. I actually found myself getting nervous as I was reading the first part leading up to the race. Great Job!

Same here. I feel like I don't have much to contribute, and it kind of makes me sad.

ATTQOTD: Hmm... I'm a vocal supporter of "nothing new on race day!" - but I've totally worn new shirts/skirts/capris/shoes on race day, lol! Ice baths: I listened, I tried, my body gets nothing useful from them. "Never run two days in a row" - turns out, my body thrives on back to back runs!

I never noticed anything magical about an ice bath either!

 

[CP3uhoh]

Can I ask everyone's opinion on my current training (the long runs). I've sort of mashed up the Wine and Dine Galloway schedule with the WDW Marathon schedule because I ran the Wine and Dine and am running the Houston Marathon which is just a week after WDW.

Obviously I ran 13.1 on Nov.6
Nov.12 I ran 6 mile
Nov. 19 I ran 17.5 miles
Nov. 26 I ran 7 miles

This is what I plan for the rest (Everything so far has gone well, no real issue though my foot was killing me for a few days after the Wine and Dine due to too much park activity) This surprisingly went away rather easily with a few days at home and normal workout schedule.

This Saturday Dec. 3- 20 miles
Dec. 10- 6 miles
Dec. 17- 7 miles
Dec. 23 (Fri) 22.5-24.5 miles
Dec. 30/31-6 miles
Jan. 7 - 7 miles
Jan. 15- Marathon

I'm wondering if I'm pushing it by going for 20 this week. I've heard about the 1 up and 2 down training schedules and obviously this is almost two months of one up one down, all being over 13 miles...(I ran 15 miles two weeks before the Wine and Dine)

Thoughts, tips appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Miranda]

I think it was mentioned before in a QOTD, but has anyone tried out the noxgear tracer 360? How do you like it?

https://www.noxgear.com/tracer360

I haven't run with it yet but I picked one up on Black Friday (and the dog harness too) from Amazon. They are a little more than direct from noxgear ($49.95 vs $44.95), but Amazon was having an additional promo for $9.99 off each one if you bought both.

 

[opusone]

QOTD: Are there things that are widely accepted as the norm or consensus opinion when it comes to running that you do not buy into? What are they? For example.... running hills at a steady effort rather than a steady pace... not sure how the heart rate people out there would answer this one?

The shake-out run the day before a race. My best race performances have been when I don't run at all the day before a race, but people swear by the easy shake-out run.

 

[opusone]

I think it was mentioned before in a QOTD, but has anyone tried out the noxgear tracer 360? How do you like it?

https://www.noxgear.com/tracer360

Every once in a while the underside tube gets caught in my glove...

Like @DopeyBadger , I have caught my hand on the lower tube every once in a while...

My hand does catch it a occasionally as well...

I love my Tracer 360 (I've been using it fairly consistently for a few months now). Like @camaker, I have not experienced the hand-caught-in-lower-tube syndrome that others speak of.

I mentioned this before (somewhere on The Running Thread forum), but I think the best part of the Tracer 360 is the battery management features. It flashes green, yellow, or red every time you turn it on or off. Yellow means you have about an hour left. However, even if you ignore the yellow warning (which I did once since I didn't have any AAA batteries at home), once the batteries get really low, it automatically switches to a battery-saving red-pulse only mode which lasted at least an additional 30 minutes for me (I don't know how long it would have lasted since my run was over at that point).

 

[JeffW]

Heh, my marathon PR was from Goofy two years ago. Haven't been able to top it since. Guess I need a hard shake-out.

The shake-out run the day before a race. My best race performances have been when I don't run at all the day before a race, but people swear by the easy shake-out run.

 

[Nole95]

I usually run two days before a race, but rarely do a shake out run.

I think pretty much every PR I have done in a half or full was done without a shakeout run.

 

[camaker]

YES. I could not agree more. While I agree with this to some degree, people go into a race woefully underprepared and just think they can will themselves to finish. You can...but you could pay for it.

I think the problem with this one is misapplication more than the rule itself being wrong. It's not meant for use as a rationale to not train adequately. It's meant as a caution that if you either are injured or feel a potential injury coming on, it's better to back off the training rather than push through and worsen things to the point that you are injured come race day.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Can I ask everyone's opinion on my current training (the long runs). I've sort of mashed up the Wine and Dine Galloway schedule with the WDW Marathon schedule because I ran the Wine and Dine and am running the Houston Marathon which is just a week after WDW.

Obviously I ran 13.1 on Nov.6
Nov.12 I ran 6 mile
Nov. 19 I ran 17.5 miles
Nov. 26 I ran 7 miles

This is what I plan for the rest (Everything so far has gone well, no real issue though my foot was killing me for a few days after the Wine and Dine due to too much park activity) This surprisingly went away rather easily with a few days at home and normal workout schedule.

This Saturday Dec. 3- 20 miles
Dec. 10- 6 miles
Dec. 17- 7 miles
Dec. 23 (Fri) 22.5-24.5 miles
Dec. 30/31-6 miles
Jan. 7 - 7 miles
Jan. 15- Marathon

I'm wondering if I'm pushing it by going for 20 this week. I've heard about the 1 up and 2 down training schedules and obviously this is almost two months of one up one down, all being over 13 miles...(I ran 15 miles two weeks before the Wine and Dine)

Thoughts, tips appreciated. Thanks!

If I remember correctly from another thread this is your first marathon coming up (and W&D was your first HM). I'd caution not to get too worked up about the long run. It's a piece of the puzzle, but there are definite things to consider when choosing what is best and not best in a training plan. I'm a big advocate for evaluating things based on relative fitness pace x time. These two items together create miles, but I believe they are far more important than evaluating a training plan purely on miles. Also, creating balance in the training between mileage on any one day as well as hard and easy days.

So that's all to say that without more information I couldn't tell you whether this is or isn't appropriate. But since this is your first marathon, this is likely more mileage than you need to do to run the marathon unless you are using a run/walk running method (because run/walk allows a longer duration of training and thus more mileage). I have a few links to things I've mentioned in the past on these boards as being helpful in my first post on my journal (link). These are the two most appropriate prior posts: Quintessential Running Post and Marathon is 99% Aerobic.

Feel free to send me a PM with more details about your training and I can try to be of more assistance. It's a hobby of mine.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm wondering if I'm pushing it by going for 20 this week. I've heard about the 1 up and 2 down training schedules and obviously this is almost two months of one up one down, all being over 13 miles...(I ran 15 miles two weeks before the Wine and Dine)

Thoughts, tips appreciated. Thanks!

No, you are not given your goal to run 22+ miles 3 weeks later. Going from 17 miles to 20 miles is no big deal, and doing so with a down week in between should make it easier. I am just wondering why your weekly long runs are so short between you growth weeks? My coach has always insisted that my weekly long run be at least 65% of my longest training run to that point during my recovery weeks. You drop from 17 miles back down to 7 then back up to 20 the next week.

 

[CP3uhoh]

I

No, you are not given your goal to run 22+ miles 3 weeks later. Going from 17 miles to 20 miles is no big deal, and doing so with a down week in between should make it easier. I am just wondering why your weekly long runs are so short between you growth weeks? My coach has always insisted that my weekly long run be at least 65% of my longest training run to that point during my recovery weeks. You drop from 17 miles back down to 7 then back up to 20 the next week.

I got that from the Galloway program, no other reason really. But it seems to be working well.

 

[CP3uhoh]

If I remember correctly from another thread this is your first marathon coming up (and W&D was your first HM). I'd caution not to get too worked up about the long run. It's a piece of the puzzle, but there are definite things to consider when choosing what is best and not best in a training plan. I'm a big advocate for evaluating things based on relative fitness pace x time. These two items together create miles, but I believe they are far more important than evaluating a training plan purely on miles. Also, creating balance in the training between mileage on any one day as well as hard and easy days.

So that's all to say that without more information I couldn't tell you whether this is or isn't appropriate. But since this is your first marathon, this is likely more mileage than you need to do to run the marathon unless you are using a run/walk running method (because run/walk allows a longer duration of training and thus more mileage). I have a few links to things I've mentioned in the past on these boards as being helpful in my first post on my journal (link). These are the two most appropriate prior posts: Quintessential Running Post and Marathon is 99% Aerobic.

Feel free to send me a PM with more details about your training and I can try to be of more assistance. It's a hobby of mine.

You're right, was my first half and now first full. My fitness level was pretty high when I picked this up. 40 minutes of cardio five days a week at the gym plus weight training, also cardio on the weekend. My first setback was when I first started in March. Week 4 I sort of just kept going feeling pretty good and got some tendatis in my foot from running miles having not run outdoors on pavement for any length of time for probably a decade. I also tied my shoes tight to try to avoid blisters...suffice to say, I've learned a lot since then.

 

[ZellyB]

I

I got that from the Galloway program, no other reason really. But it seems to be working well.

Yeah, that's typical of a Galloway training schedule. It's what I typically follow as well. Galloway puts much more emphasis on the long runs rather than weekly cumulative mileage with significant drop downs in between the progressive longer runs. It's a schedule that has generally worked well for me to get me through a completion of a marathon. If you have a major time goal or are looking to have a peak performance on your marathon, then Galloway isn't necessarily the best schedule. If, however, you are looking to complete your first marathon healthy and upright without a lot of concerns about pace etc, then it's a workable and relatively easy to achieve plan.

 

[dis_or_dat]

QOTD: I'm gonna mix the last few days in this post. I enjoy core work because it's different than running and I catch up on streaming shows. I try to work in 10-12 min several times a week if I have time - so I try to incorporate a lot of muscle groups at one time so planks, side planks, push ups, etc.

Regarding strength training, it's really helped me minimize injuries. I have bad knees (they dislocate a lot) so I do lunges to strengthen my quads. I also have runners knee, hamstring issues, and sometimes ITB issues, so added clamshells and bridges and they've really helped immensely. With a lot of proponents of foam rolling on this board, I've added it to my repertoire and I really enjoy it (but it's time consuming!).

Like everyone's said, do what works for you. It's good to receive advice on the boards and apply them where you see fit (e.g. foam rolling). Personally, I'm always late and crunched for time as well as lazy. So I don't warm up or cool down as much as some would like me to and not at all for races. I also don't eat or drink during any of my runs including 12-13 mile runs (especially now that it's cold), but oddly think fuel helps during my halfs. I also run my shoes into the ground. But I'm starting to modify and take a sip of water at mile 6 of my long runs, change shoes after 500 miles, and I might even do a warm up for my last half.

Love the tracer 360. I thought a car's headlights were reflecting off a traffic sign, but it was me - that's how bright it was! However, it's not great for fog and I would get a headlamp if you need to see the ground.

 

[Miranda]

I am going to be all set for my group run next week for visibility. My dog's agility class is not done yet, so I can't go to my group run tomorrow night, but next week there's some event or something at the SPCA where the classes are held, so no class. I have my new Tracer360 and a new Black Diamond headlamp. Too bad my Nightrunner 270 shoe lights are only half working! I need to see if they will exchange the broken one even though it's been almost a year since I got them for Christmas last year.

 

[Ariel484]

I

I got that from the Galloway program, no other reason really. But it seems to be working well.

At this point I'd stick with Galloway if that's working for you.

 

[Keels]

Can I ask everyone's opinion on my current training (the long runs). I've sort of mashed up the Wine and Dine Galloway schedule with the WDW Marathon schedule because I ran the Wine and Dine and am running the Houston Marathon which is just a week after WDW.

Obviously I ran 13.1 on Nov.6
Nov.12 I ran 6 mile
Nov. 19 I ran 17.5 miles
Nov. 26 I ran 7 miles

This is what I plan for the rest (Everything so far has gone well, no real issue though my foot was killing me for a few days after the Wine and Dine due to too much park activity) This surprisingly went away rather easily with a few days at home and normal workout schedule.

This Saturday Dec. 3- 20 miles
Dec. 10- 6 miles
Dec. 17- 7 miles
Dec. 23 (Fri) 22.5-24.5 miles
Dec. 30/31-6 miles
Jan. 7 - 7 miles
Jan. 15- Marathon

I'm wondering if I'm pushing it by going for 20 this week. I've heard about the 1 up and 2 down training schedules and obviously this is almost two months of one up one down, all being over 13 miles...(I ran 15 miles two weeks before the Wine and Dine)

Thoughts, tips appreciated. Thanks!

I'm with @Ariel484 - stick with what works for you (Galloway). If this is your first marathon, your goal should ultimately be to finish upright, smiling and healthy -- it's going to be a PR regardless of what your time is!

PERSONALLY, I think you're fine capping out at 20-22 miles for your longest run. Obviously, we haven't seen maps yet, but if you need some mental marks on mileage:

• Mile 20, you'll be leaving WWoS and heading for DHS. WWoS is a large "out and back", so you'll be able to see runners at the 17-mile mark as you're hitting Mile 20. It's definitely a HUGE adrenaline boost.
• Mile 22, you'll be heading up the on-ramp to the entrance to DHS (this year, it was at roughly 22.5).
• Mile 24 is essentially the "Safe Zone" - for all intents and purposes, once you clear the DHS bus loop and hit the path to Swolphin/Boardwalk, you won't be swept unless you suffer a catastrophic injury or something.

You are the only person that knows what's best for you! Good luck!

 

[CP3uhoh]

I'm with @Ariel484 - stick with what works for you (Galloway). If this is your first marathon, your goal should ultimately be to finish upright, smiling and healthy -- it's going to be a PR regardless of what your time is!

PERSONALLY, I think you're fine capping out at 20-22 miles for your longest run. Obviously, we haven't seen maps yet, but if you need some mental marks on mileage:

• Mile 20, you'll be leaving WWoS and heading for DHS. WWoS is a large "out and back", so you'll be able to see runners at the 17-mile mark as you're hitting Mile 20. It's definitely a HUGE adrenaline boost.
• Mile 22, you'll be heading up the on-ramp to the entrance to DHS (this year, it was at roughly 22.5).
• Mile 24 is essentially the "Safe Zone" - for all intents and purposes, once you clear the DHS bus loop and hit the path to Swolphin/Boardwalk, you won't be swept unless you suffer a catastrophic injury or something.

You are the only person that knows what's best for you! Good luck!

Not running WDW, local one a week later. But sort of planning on 2018 depending on how this marathon goes and another one a couple months later

 

[Keels]

Not running WDW, local one a week later. But sort of planning on 2018 depending on how this marathon goes and another one a couple months later

My bad! I'm sorry!! I've obviously got WDW Marathon on the brain something SERIOUS.

Good luck - I'm confident you'll do great!