The 'Planning Backlash'

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You seem to be ignoring what I'm saying: Take NYC out of it. You are a local. You can go to the parks anytime you want. Therefore your opinions about preplanning a WDW trip and reserving FP+ are really irrelevant to non-locals. It doesn't matter if the day you planned in the parks gets rained out, you can go another day. You are a local.
If this happens to me, I can't go another day. Do you now understand what I'm saying?

You seem to believe locals have this magical schedule lacking obligations which allows us to snap our fingers and be there.

And outside of a hurricane--haven't had a rained out day ever in Disney.

We were "locals" on a one day free give a day get a day ticket going on my daugter's birthday in 2010. Only day we could go--plans out the wazoo--and rain rain rain rain rain rain.

Oh but we could to another day? No--ticket was used and there was no getting a new one. CRT was paid for. BBB was promised. So it is naive to think our localness gives us this unlimited access to show up when the mood strikes all else to heck!

But the nice thing about rain? Tourists freak out and abandon the park. Lines shorten. It's like magic!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've thought about the local/non-local thing a lot.

If I lived close enough to day-trip to Disney..... even I would be loving FP+. It was like a gift from the heavens from locals. They don't have as much on the line on any given day and if they miss something or the weather changes last minute, no big loss.

If I lived an hour or two away and didn't want to pay for lodging, I would be thrilled to bits not to have to leave at the crack of dawn to be there in time to still get a FP for the headliners.

I totally get why a local would not be a fan. I just wish the locals would see the other side of this.

The funny thing is that there are locals who post and claim that FP+ is bad for then since all you out if staters have the luxury if booking 60 days ahead.

And since all other discussion points are failing--it's time to shame the locals and their lack of understanding. Because clearly, there is no other explanation for a local to just not get all this required planning. Not only do we have no state income tax--we just flash our DL and walk in like we own the place. And no Floridian ever vacations at Disney. We just all take our kids after school. That's why it is so crowded.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

SEPTA will take you directly from the airport to downtown. No need to park anywhere. From there? Hello Uber!

Good to know. Now if you could do something about those crowds...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Tickets go on sale at 10:00 for matinees. Since the shows start in just a few hours, there is a finite amount of time that one can wait. If they opened at 8:00, would people queue up? I suppose so. But the ticket supply would simply run dry earlier. If you move up the start time, you necessarily move up the end time. There simply isn't any way for someone to wait in line 5 hours at TKTS.



Tell me when and where and I'll bet that for less than $250 per ticket, I can get a ticket to one of your local shows on Stub Hub in about 45 seconds.

I am willing to bet that I won't ever pay scalpers prices for anything ever. ;-)

 

[SuperTink]

I humbly request your forgiveness for my offense!

You may very well be serious/correct, as the Tower is kind of a PITA. However, in your golden years, when regaling your great grandchildren with the wondrous stories of the incredible sites you have seen in your long, illustrious lifetime......even though a day at TL may be more fun, I kinda want the Eiffel Tower on my list instead. That's all I meant!

Yeah, me too.

To be honest, it was a helluva line though. lol.

And I almost had a panic attack in the crowds to see the Sistine Chapel.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yeah, me too.

To be honest, it was a helluva line though. lol.

And I almost had a panic attack in the crowds to see the Sistine Chapel.

OT as it is on our wish list....

Any special tips for the Sistine Chapel?


We went to ET oblivious. Thankfully it was evening, cold, and off season. Any wait we had wasn't memorable to be long. And my kids love the retelling of how mommy refused to climb up any further. Once at the top, there is an additional set of stairs to go even higher. I refused! Much more memorable than the Tour of Terror (which I adore). But I am such a Scaredy cat with heights.

When friends and family visited us and wanted to do the Washington Monument--I am all--y'all have fun, I will see you when you get back.

 

[JimmyV]

OT as it is on our wish list....

Any special tips for the Sistine Chapel?

Yes, but based on your comments about scalpers, you may not like it. The key to most sites in Rome is a private tour guide. And one that is state-licensed. They get "front of the line" access to pretty much everything. You still have to pay the admission fee. But your guide will take it from there. We booked half-day tours each morning and toured "on our own" each afternoon. The morning tours were the best money I ever spent. Our guide was a political science/history major with a very broad knowledge of art. And in Italy, politics, religion and art are inextricably intertwined. We used:
http://www.romaround.it/home/welcome-to-romaround

 

[SuperTink]

Lisa, we saw ET in JULY!! Not good. But as with Disney, we had to deal with our schedule.

SC--be hydrated, understand that other cultures have different personal space perspectives and prepare to kindly and gently defend yours, be hydrated, and well-rested. And be hydrated.

It is absolutely glorious and worth every minute. Every minute. Enjoy!!

 

[SuperTink]

BTW I've lived in the DC Metro for 12 years and have never been inside the monument. It's nice from the outside. lol. I'm a slacker.

 

[JimmyV]

BTW I've lived in the DC Metro for 12 years and have never been inside the monument. It's nice from the outside. lol. I'm a slacker.

Same with us with the Statue of Liberty. We were out on Liberty Island and I was getting ready to get in line for the climb up and my then 6 year-old daughter said: "Dad. Why would we want to climb up inside? That is the only place where we won't be able to actually see the statue!" Smart kid. Saved me some money and sweat on a hot July day.

 

[Suvadoo]

You seem to believe locals have this magical schedule lacking obligations which allows us to snap our fingers and be there.

And outside of a hurricane--haven't had a rained out day ever in Disney.

We were "locals" on a one day free give a day get a day ticket going on my daugter's birthday in 2010. Only day we could go--plans out the wazoo--and rain rain rain rain rain rain.

Oh but we could to another day? No--ticket was used and there was no getting a new one. CRT was paid for. BBB was promised. So it is naive to think our localness gives us this unlimited access to show up when the mood strikes all else to heck!

But the nice thing about rain? Tourists freak out and abandon the park. Lines shorten. It's like magic!

No I don't think locals have a magical schedule, but I also don't think you have to pay $1,000's in airfare and hotels. If I cancel a preplanned day at WDW it costs thousands not $ 60 for an ADR. Quite a difference.

If you don't go tomorrow, you go next week or next month. So you can skip an attraction if you couldn't get FP+ or the SB line is too long. There's always next time. Can you say the same thing for tourists who travel great distances? No.
I just don't think you as a local, can tell me as a tourist that FP+ if fabulous. They are 2 different experiences.

 

[Laketravis]

Not sure why but this thread reminded me of Southwest's boarding process and the inability to pick your seats at time of booking (which I've always deplored).

Unless you are willing to pay an additional cost that seems to incur regular price increases, you and a couple hundred other passengers are waiting for that exact second 24 hours before your flight to press the button and hope you get an early spot in the cattle queue. And even with the additional cost, you aren't reserving an actual seat - just an earlier chance at the seat lottery. On a plane that may be a stop for existing passengers who have all moved up to the front before you even board.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who dislikes this process and the anxiety it can cause in terms of families being able to sit together or overhead bin space still being available, but the fact is they haven't changed it. What they've done is found additional ways to monetize it.

The current planning process with ADR/FP/MDE provides Disney with numerous logical, emotional, and strategic opportunities to monetize convenience or confidence.

I have a hard time believing they aren't waiting and watching to see exactly which opportunities to take advantage of first and how.

 

[erc]

I just don't think you as a local, can tell me as a tourist that FP+ if fabulous. They are 2 different experiences.

I'm kind of new to this discussion, although I had a forgotten Disboards account here many moons ago before many of you existed. I'm getting up to speed with the new FP+ system and see a number of cantankerous threads on the subject. What precisely is harder to do with the new FP+ system that you could do easily with the old FP system?

 

[SuperTink]

Same with us with the Statue of Liberty. We were out on Liberty Island and I was getting ready to get in line for the climb up and my then 6 year-old daughter said: "Dad. Why would we want to climb up inside? That is the only place where we won't be able to actually see the statue!" Smart kid. Saved me some money and sweat on a hot July day.

Haha! Local swag!

 

[Laketravis]

I'm kind of new to this discussion, although I had a forgotten Disboards account here many moons ago before many of you existed. I'm getting up to speed with the new FP+ system and see a number of cantankerous threads on the subject. What precisely is harder to do with the new FP+ system that you could do easily with the old FP system?

In one word: Plan.

 

[mcd2745]

I'm kind of new to this discussion, although I had a forgotten Disboards account here many moons ago before many of you existed. I'm getting up to speed with the new FP+ system and see a number of cantankerous threads on the subject. What precisely is harder to do with the new FP+ system that you could do easily with the old FP system?

Mostly, some people (myself not included) are upset they can no longer hoard/accumulate FP tickets (including multiple ones for the same attraction) throughout the day and then use them all in succession towards the end of the day.

 

[tim123]

OT as it is on our wish list....

Any special tips for the Sistine Chapel?


We went to ET oblivious. Thankfully it was evening, cold, and off season. Any wait we had wasn't memorable to be long. And my kids love the retelling of how mommy refused to climb up any further. Once at the top, there is an additional set of stairs to go even higher. I refused! Much more memorable than the Tour of Terror (which I adore). But I am such a Scaredy cat with heights.

When friends and family visited us and wanted to do the Washington Monument--I am all--y'all have fun, I will see you when you get back.

Just back from Rome recently. The Pope charges 30 Euro to see the chapel now, you'd think with the $$$$ the church has they might rethink that..it was free in the old days…

Advice? Just take the on and off red two decker open top bus around Rome it has plug in headphones with a great guide to all the greats..coluseaum, vatican etc… 10 euro!

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm kind of new to this discussion, although I had a forgotten Disboards account here many moons ago before many of you existed. I'm getting up to speed with the new FP+ system and see a number of cantankerous threads on the subject. What precisely is harder to do with the new FP+ system that you could do easily with the old FP system?

For me, the biggest downside is not being able to easily switch up park days, once I am there, if something goes sideways (weather, illness, bad night of sleep etc).

With paper FP, every day was a clean slate. I miss that.

 

[nugov2]

You think it so stupid? If you don't live in Philly, please tell me with no planning on how much time it will take you to enter the city, where you will park and how much time you need to get to the venue?

Too stupid? Okay--

Let's discuss a non-local, or heck even a local--physically attends an inauguration with no plan and no wait.

I am NOT confused. The Extra lengths are only as necessary as you require this to be. If you world centers around Anna and Elsa FP+ being the symbol of an awesome vacation--that is all on you.

It took me one minute to find the website that much like MDE helps you plan your visit to Philly during the Pope's visit.

About 30 seconds to click on the link with the list of hotels. I didn't register if you do planning is a little easier as they will give you an itinerary and other tools. One minute to see hotels within 10 miles of Philly are already sold out.

7 minutes to go to hotels.com and search for hotels in the area not booked. Found one a 38 minute drive from the Philadelphia Convention center for $289 a night that is a 4 star hotel with good reviews in Willmington Delaware.

5 minutes to search the town of Willmington Delaware to see if this is a safe place to be for my family. This is what I found:

Wilmington, Delaware was first settled by the Swedish in 1638. Over time, the area has also been home to the Dutch, the British and the Quakers, a long diverse history that has left its mark on the surrounding area. Visit Fort Christina and experience what it was like to be one of the first colonists in Wilmington. The Delaware Art Museum, with a extensive collection of American art, celebrates the Brandywine School, a style of painting named for the nearby Brandywine Creek.

Looks like it isn't rated the safest place, but in terms of safety it is rated the same as being in Philly so probably no different. It looks like southern NJ may be better to research, but since it isn't really and just an example of what can be done in a short amount of time but I'd imagine another 20 minutes or so would help to see what is available there tops.

It took me one minute to click back to the website and get an overview of activities for the day, recommended restaurants and key note speakers so I can plan my activities now.

I didn't have to wait until 180 days before my trip to plan restaurants and times and then wait 30 days to know the times and places of the speakers and now realize the speaker I was dying to see if speaking at the time I have reservations for my must have restaurant in the area. Why, because that makes no sense and is stupid system for planning. That is my point and in about an hour I can have my basic plan for Pope 2015 in the books(not saying it might not be another 20-30 minutes to plan logistics of getting around down there, but it looks like from south jersey I can take advantage of park-and-ride stations at PATCO or RIVERLine stations and a quick check shows there is still hotel availability in south Jersey ).

No waiting until 180 days out, then 60 or 30 days out to know if the stars will align and I will get the vacation I wanted. No chance that I will have booked the one restaurant I wanted at the only time I could secure a FP for a line that can be 2-4 hours long and now have to decide it I should cut the ADR or hope we get lucky in SB. A situation that would have been less likely to happen if I could book EVERYTHING at once.

I don't think anyone ever said do everything with no plan or no wait. Again, it is the type of planning that WDW requires and because of the system in place IMO offers the highest chance of disappointment compared to anything I have ever planned. My world doesn't center around A&E that was just one example in a list of many things that could cause disappointment. I am flexible, but when I see that I could have had BOG at 10 different times when I logged on at 180+10 and realize that I picked the one time out of those 10 that would conflict with A&E and that if I could have scheduled both at the same time I am mad. If I log on and see both are not available to me at the same time I am disappointed b/c for whatever reason they are booked. In the first scenario I could have gotten my plans how I wanted if WDW had a better system, but they don't and that causes me to be frustrated with them, not the fact there are crowds and I have to wait for some things.

Why is that so unreasonable?

ETA: that when a special event one time thing comes up I expect planning to be more difficult than the average vacation. Disney is not a one time event it is offered every day of the year. It shouldn't have the limitations and hurdles that planning a one time special event IMO.

 

[mcd2745]

For me, the biggest downside is not being able to easily switch up park days, once I am there, if something goes sideways (weather, illness, bad night of sleep etc).

With paper FP, every day was a clean slate. I miss that.

That could be the case if you never made ADRs. But if you did have dinner ADRs each night, it really wasn't the case anyway. So the change to FP+ didn't really change anything.