The new resale rule: The Empire Strikes Back

But, see...it doesn't entice me to EVER purchase direct. Disney has lost trust and devalued DVC overall, IMO. Why would I EVER pay full price, knowing it will be worth much less? We were considering Aulani, but have decided against it. This change tipped the scale, just not worth it anymore.
A given buyer doesn't matter, it's the overall effect that is the issue. However, it is likely to driver new customers and those doing the tours to retail more than in the past. If not, we'll see more changes in all likelihood.
 
A given buyer doesn't matter, it's the overall effect that is the issue. However, it is likely to driver new customers and those doing the tours to retail more than in the past. If not, we'll see more changes in all likelihood.

Exactly! Can you imagine those new buyers getting the tour at DVC and now being told that their impulse buy will carry benefits that won't come with those other contract? Whether it is a great benefit or not, and even a benefit than can be stripped away from them as well, its something that could very well sway that new buyer to DVC's side. And, I am sure that is who they are targeting at this point.
 
Yes, but most of those saying they are going for the "no benefits" resale bargains are already DVC members looking to do small-ish add-ons, not the first time DVC buyers.

I think in the past, many existing members would recommend DVC to family and friends. but steered them to resales because it was cheaper AND carried the same options as a direct purchase. They may see fewer first time buyers going the resale route because of this change.

We are one of the first times looking for the resale bargain...I don't think everyone going for the bargain will be someone adding on. I have done enough research to realize that trading the points out isn't a good use of points anyway...but we are looking at getting a small resale contract after the change that we could use every 2-3 years at WDW, HHI, or Aulani.
 
Sure, but I think Disney is trying to target the first time buyers that purchase more points, not the ones only trying to buy enough points for a trip every 2 to 3 years through banking and borrowing.

They want the get the folks that are buying 200 to 300 points resale as their first contract. The ones that may want to trade out their points at some time in the future.
 

Sure, but I think Disney is trying to target the first time buyers that purchase more points, not the ones only trying to buy enough points for a trip every 2 to 3 years through banking and borrowing.

They want the get the folks that are buying 200 to 300 points resale as their first contract. The ones that may want to trade out their points at some time in the future.

Yes. The park goers looking into DVC; the ones with a few kids, 20-30k available to buy direct.

Not the couple that wants to visit every other year or so. Although, with the trading out perks, this option can be sold to couples that want to trade out for other places.

Either way, not the informed buyer.
 
IMO. Why would I EVER pay full price, knowing it will be worth much less?

All buyers purchase because they actually want to USE the points. And that hasn't changed.

Many of us who have been around DURING this transition will undoubtedly have a more cautious approach going forward. But I don't believe future buyers will view DVC with any more suspicion or ambivalence than in the past. DVC is still selling 50 years' of vacations--give or take--with their own sprinkling of pixie dust to back up the transaction.

Resale value may have been a bullet point on my list of "pros" before I made my first purchase. However, it would have been a "pro" whether that estimated resale was 80% of retail or 60% of retail.

As long as the Disney parks remain premier vacation destinations, DVC points WILL have significant resale value. Even folks who stay at the Value resorts with free dining would be lined up to buy at $10-20 per point. And in reality, the financial benefits to owning alone will keep values far higher than that.

Will prices slip a bit? Perhaps. But it's doubtful you will see contracts going for hundreds on eBay until they are within a couple years of ending. People WANT to visit the Disney parks--tens-of-millions of people per year.

DVC may lose some add-on sales from members who feel they have been slighted by the policy change. But IMO they stand to make it back and then some via added direct sales.
 
A given buyer doesn't matter, it's the overall effect that is the issue.
Yes, very true, and beyond that, it is a losing proposition to cater to customers who take things so personally as to corrupt this into a trust issue. A betrayal of trust requires a promise, and in this case, Disney has complied with their promise 100%.
 
A number of interesting things at work here.

I can see where some people are scratching their heads thinking why arent all DVC owners up in arms about this? They must be drinking the kool-aid! Well, exactly what are they supposed to do? The DVC is behaving like every other time share and its either sell now, or ride it out and use it for what you bough it for. Sounds like toting the company line but is their any other recourse?

Disturbing aspects are DVC stating that they 'are acting like every other timeshare' as if thats a good thing.

That grandfather date, I believe future changes will really be aimed at the now miniscule future resale buyer. This is the demarcation line for future changes and it will establish a new floor for what DVC sells for on the open market.

DVC can now, if they wish, unfairly compete with you should you ever need to sell your points as they can buy them at whatever the floor happens to be and sell a shiney new incentive laden contract instead.

What happens 'IF' they were to make trading options more valuable/point wise. Huge incentive to buy direct. There is already a disincentive to DVC owners that those trading in via RCI dont have.

Future rental market should take a huge dip. This is the area that having any substantial resale ownership making up any kind of the membership in significant numbers can have a direct impact. These members can no longer trade out and 'must' rent if they want to recoup costs. Once the future rental market starts to cross the line with yearly maintenance fees (7-8$ a point) you will have a large number of distressed owners just looking to unload their contracts (see pretty much every other time share in history).

For anyone that this wasnt a luxury purchase, owning DVC just became a much worse idea. The only feasable way to make it work, IMO, is to get in cheap on the resale market and be happy with a room where you bought. Youll do much better actually following the mantra that many have espoused but probably few practiced.
 
I can see where some people are scratching their heads thinking why arent all DVC owners up in arms about this? They must be drinking the kool-aid! Well, exactly what are they supposed to do?
I think even that is off-target. The most significant conflict in the thread is not whether people like this change or not, but rather only with regard to whether Disney is literally evil or not.
 
I think even that is off-target. The most significant conflict in the thread is not whether people like this change or not, but rather only with regard to whether Disney is literally evil or not.

I still make the case that these changes in then end could help the membership as a whole and help keep the resale rates from dropping into the tank even worse. This is the theory on that. If there is no incentive for purchasing direct from Disney, the direct sales (and profits for DVC) will all but disappear. This will occur both for new resorts and existing resorts. First, I don't think you will see giant SSR/OKW resorts open again, but more likely split style resorts will be the norm. Also, if DVC can figure out a way to repackage and resell existing resorts (maybe think extensions, similar to OKW to help tempt people as well) and generate more revenue and increase point sales.

If Disney does begin this process of repackaging and selling points direct to purcharsers at both existing and new resorts (not building at such a fast pace as they did with the SSR/AKV/BLT expansions) they could generate lots of revenue and dry up a lot of the resale market. If the resale market begins to dry up, either through ROFR or through actual resales, either way supply and demand will hold and possibly raise the prices up. If direct sales are near even $100 per point after incentives, with lost exchange benefits you might see the resale benefits actually climb back up into the $70-80 price range, which is above what it is now. :teacher:
 
We bought BWV and AKV for BWV and AKV. Period. Everything else is and always....gravy. We happen to buy direct on all of our contracts. Reselling, if and when that ever becomes necessary, God forbid!:scared1: , will be at whatever the resale market dictates at the time, with or without changes, it definitely won't be what we paid (well maybe on that first contract back in 2000;)) This is the same with every single other timeshare on the market.

Did we get exactly what we paid for? Yes, over and over and over and over again:cool1: We choose to spend our vacation time at one of two home resorts (which, again is why and what we bought), and we get to do just that whenever we want to travel. In the off chance we can't get our home resort, because we book too close to our travel dates, well then, we get another gorgeous DVC accommodation, SSR, OKW, whatever.

We are not upset at all by this change, and we look forward to returning to our favorite vacation destination, time and time again, and mostly, we really look forward to sharing it and giving it to our adult children.
 
A number of interesting things at work here.

I can see where some people are scratching their heads thinking why arent all DVC owners up in arms about this? They must be drinking the kool-aid! Well, exactly what are they supposed to do? The DVC is behaving like every other time share and its either sell now, or ride it out and use it for what you bough it for. Sounds like toting the company line but is their any other recourse?

Disturbing aspects are DVC stating that they 'are acting like every other timeshare' as if thats a good thing.
It doesn't matter, that ball is in their court. They could stop all options for all owners if they wanted above just the club resorts. DVC has always been just another nice timeshare. Anyone who thought otherwise were kidding themselves, IMO. This is a good thing for all owners in many ways. These include that it will improve the long term viability of the program, create other options and savings for those who understand the true value of DVC and it may prevent someone from making an impulse buy looking at the poor value exchange options.

That grandfather date, I believe future changes will really be aimed at the now miniscule future resale buyer. This is the demarcation line for future changes and it will establish a new floor for what DVC sells for on the open market.

DVC can now, if they wish, unfairly compete with you should you ever need to sell your points as they can buy them at whatever the floor happens to be and sell a shiney new incentive laden contract instead.
I doubt it'll be a minuscule number that buy in resale but if it is, that means the change was successful. They are not unfairly competing, they never intended for you to have the true options to start with. Market forces will determine the value, not DVC.

What happens 'IF' they were to make trading options more valuable/point wise. Huge incentive to buy direct. There is already a disincentive to DVC owners that those trading in via RCI dont have.
They really should do this in some way. They likely can't reduce the points but what they could do would be to give the option to be a regular RCI member. In that case you could deposit lower seasons and smaller units and trade up effectively reducing the points costs. You'd have to pay higher exchange costs and a yearly membership fee. That change would benefit those that also own other RCI timeshares and be negative to those that simply want the option for rare use or just in case.

Future rental market should take a huge dip. This is the area that having any substantial resale ownership making up any kind of the membership in significant numbers can have a direct impact. These members can no longer trade out and 'must' rent if they want to recoup costs. Once the future rental market starts to cross the line with yearly maintenance fees (7-8$ a point) you will have a large number of distressed owners just looking to unload their contracts (see pretty much every other time share in history).

For anyone that this wasnt a luxury purchase, owning DVC just became a much worse idea. The only feasable way to make it work, IMO, is to get in cheap on the resale market and be happy with a room where you bought. Youll do much better actually following the mantra that many have espoused but probably few practiced.
IMO, DVC has never been a true luxury timeshare, certainly not in the vein of Ritz or Four Seasons. Comparing to cruises, it's in the range of RCCL, not Holland America or Celebrity and certainly not Silver Seas or similar, same for DCL as it turns out.
 
I think the people that rent points will be next on the list, DVC wants new owners, letting people rent their points will face some heavy restrictions, like prove your related to the owner to rent their points. I'll never regret buying as we're ahead of the game. I've always thought that DVC would always improve the owner experience, foolish thought. It would be nice if they threw in a few more perks, It seems annual pass holder make out better than we do. We've paid $119,000 to DVC over 11 years and have enjoyed $143,000 in vacations, so can't really complain, and could sell my ownership for what I paid for it. It seems they could intice a lot more people with discounts on tickets or special pricing on food plans. Out of the millions of visitors how could it hurt to give some good perks. I'll bet people would be standing in line to buy with a couple more cost benefits to save on there stay.
 
We've paid $119,000 to DVC over 11 years and have enjoyed $143,000 in vacations, so can't really complain, and could sell my ownership for what I paid for it.
Which supports the contention that DVC was actually under-priced rather than under-bonused.

Out of the millions of visitors how could it hurt to give some good perks.
I would rather get those perqs in the form of dividends or stock buy-back, than as a DVC member.
 
I don't know about you guys/gals, but maybe until about 2-3 years ago I'd be one of those unpaid DVC "salesperson" to anyone that would listen... :lmao:
But with all the changes and "improvements" I've stopped being that. I don't see the extreme value that we received early on in our membership. And more and more I see is the decline in Disney Difference as they like to call it.

Not saying that our membership suck, but I don't promote it anymore.
I don't really notice it until we talked to a DVC kiosk guy at DTD. He was a great CM to have on that kiosk. Very engaging, basically a great find for DVC.
At the end of our "chat" he asked, "Where are your hats? and Pins? You should be telling everyone about your DVC!"... half joking half serious. I laughed and told him I forgot my hat and we do have a pin on our stroller.

But that made me thought, how much free advertisement is DVC losing out of all these changes?
Or none at all?
 
Bicker said
If a company I own stock in starts putting "pixie dust" over profit, I'll assuredly sign-on to the class-action shareholder lawsuit.
But the company sells " the pixie dust" It sells "the experience", it sells customer service , it sells making the guest feel special. That is how the customer justifies to themselves the extra cost compared to a similar product. The time and or money that any company puts into raising the guests experience is exactly that, an investment in it's future return revenue. It really all comes down to long term profit or short term gain. For any company to lose that class action law suit, you would have to show that the amount of investment they are putting into creating an experience that will encourage their customers to return ( and pay a premium) is unrealistic. You might as well sue Ford for buying too much steel.

Sadly too much of America's business is driven by short term gain and no one is looking to build a long term plan that keeps the revenue stream coming in for generations. It's what killed the banks (well it's what forced the government ( i.e. we the people) to mortgage the future of our children to bail them out) , housing industry, cars and most of the once great American manufacturing businesses, but still shareholders are clammering for more "quick fixes" and a fast buck.


cseca said
But that made me thought, how much free advertisement is DVC losing out of all these changes?
Or none at all?
You make a great point, I think it will be quite a lot, but it will take a while for it to hit and longer for the company to realize. To which I repeat my point
It really all comes down to long term profit or short term gain
Too many companies allow their executives to asset strip ( pixie dust is one of Disney's greatest assets) and front load their profits at the long cost to their shareholders. But too many shareholders are, junkie like, addicted to the quick fix and don't see or don't care about the damage they are doing to their long term (financial) health.
 
Too many companies allow their executives to asset strip ( pixie dust is one of Disney's greatest assets) and front load their profits at the long cost to their shareholders. But too many shareholders are, junkie like, addicted to the quick fix and don't see or don't care about the damage they are doing to their long term (financial) health.

Let us not forget that Michael Eisner was not basically shuttled to the exit door because he "lost the magic and lacked pixie dust" no matter how you may wish to believe that. It was because the investment funds and retirement funds felt he was not was not maximizing the profit potential of The Walt Disney Company. It is an unfortunate reality of business today that profit more important than substance. We've seen the same pattern of demanding profit in many companies over the last few years. The only pixie dust investors are interested in is not glitter, but gold dust.
 
I've been a big advocate for DVC over the years. I know of precisely zero people who have bought into DVC as a result of my sales pitches. My guess is that for every DVC member who does sell others on DVC, there are a hundred who don't, and another thirty who sell DVC to people who would have bought DVC anyway. So I doubt Disney needs to be very concerned about losing us as salespeople. :rotfl:
 
But the company sells " the pixie dust"
And they still do - just not the "pixie dust" that perhaps you want them to sell. My comment wasn't saying that they should take away all "pixie dust", but rather I was simply saying that your personal preferences regarding which "pixie dust" they provide and which they don't doesn't necessary match what is best for them.

Sadly too much of America's business is driven by short term gain and no one is looking to build a long term plan that keeps the revenue stream coming in for generations.
While what you're saying is true, in the abstract, most consumers value their own contributions to the equations far more than is warranted. They refuse to grant how much of what business does is fostering long-term value, and instead see everything that they personally don't like as clear evidence that businesses are stupid or evil, when the reality is that generally businesses, and especially Disney, are smart and crafty.

It's what killed the banks
No it isn't. But that's another thread.

There have been changes over the last thirty five years, though: Americans have become a lot more fixated on consumption rather than production. They've become a lot more self-entitled. Those are indeed having some impact.
 
I look at this change as DVC needs to be able to sell new memberships and be profitable to grow the club. The option to be able to cruise on DVC points may be the only change DVC has to make to draw new purchasers to a direct purchase after the March deadline.

Personally, we own our DVC points at a home resort that we love to stay at and as long as I get my preferred booking window at my home resort, I'm happy. The Annual Pass discount makes me happy, too. :goodvibes I feel that what I was sold, I still get (actually a little more with the Annual Pass discount).

We started looking at DVC 10 years ago in 2001. And bought our first contract in February of 2002. I guess I get a little bit point sticker shocked when I look at the price of DVC ten years ago compared to now, but I'm sure Disney pays someone a lot of money to figure out what price to charge for DVC.

Bottom line, this change is really no big deal to me.
 



















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