The new resale rule: The Empire Strikes Back

[NikSwims]

I must have been living under a rock lately, because I had no idea what was going on with all of this! But now that I have seen the news, I do have to say that I am really upset about it. I know they have the right to make changes as they want, but here is how it affects me and probably decreases the amount of time we spend at Disney. We were seriously looking into adding on within the next year or two through re-sale. We probably will not add on any more points through Disney because the price per point is getting to be too much. But we like to spend our points on Disneyland and DCL, as well as at WDW. Since we would not be able to do this with resale points, those vacations probably now won't happen. I don't care about resale value of my contract, I don't plan to sell, and will always use points at DVC resorts, but I don't like the limitations. And as many others have said, this is a big change that just raises the questions of "what's next?"

 

[maminnie]

Throughout this spirited thread many have commented about the DVC salespersons and the potentially misleading info that is sometimes given, and therefore what they might or might not say in future presentations regarding resales.

Do yourselves a favor and go to the Mousecellanous section and look at the post "DVC Buyers Remorse". Doesn't pertain to resales but demonstrates some of what is going on and being said. Would love to be present when some of the salespersons are asked about resale values after March 20th.

Do we need to say more.........

 

[tjkraz]

Throughout this spirited thread many have commented about the DVC salespersons and the potentially misleading info that is sometimes given, and therefore what they might or might not say in future presentations regarding resales.

No mention of resales in that discussion so I'm not sure I even see the relevance.

Do yourselves a favor and go to the Mousecellanous section and look at the post "DVC Buyers Remorse". Doesn't pertain to resales but demonstrates some of what is going on and being said. Would love to be present when some of the salespersons are asked about resale values after March 20th.

Do we need to say more.........

Not that I'm defending the practice but that's pretty tame in relation to other half-truths that have been quoted here. When you're dealing with a person trying to sell a $20,000+ product in order to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, exaggeration is known to occur.

Doubt resale values will even be a topic of conversation at the sales pitch. Most buyers don't even know about the resale market. And in 10 years of reading these forums, I don't recall a poster ever saying "I asked my guide about future resale value and he said ___."

If buyers are aware of resales, it's pretty evident what things are worth in the near term.

 

[maminnie]

No mention of resales in that discussion so I'm not sure I even see the relevance.



Not that I'm defending the practice but that's pretty tame in relation to other half-truths that have been quoted here. When you're dealing with a person trying to sell a $20,000+ product in order to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, exaggeration is known to occur.

Doubt resale values will even be a topic of conversation at the sales pitch. Most buyers don't even know about the resale market. And in 10 years of reading these forums, I don't recall a poster ever saying "I asked my guide about future resale value and he said ___."

If buyers are aware of resales, it's pretty evident what things are worth in the near term.

My post simply provided a clear demonstration of DVC salespersons potentially providing misleading info as has been discussed and wondering what would be said in the future presentations about resales if asked. (Some of the things said seemed quite misleading to me and the poster even sought out help from these boards for clarification.) What should we expect when they are asked about resales??? It is one thing to put food on the table and another thing to mislead someone and have them make a large purchase without the facts.

I beg to differ that some people don't consider resale value, when we purchased we asked about resale values and reseached them through the internet. We have actively watched the resale sites and prices through our years years of ownership. At no point up until now have we been concerned until this latest change or should I say member enhancement.

 

[DVCconvert]

.....I beg to differ that some people don't consider resale value, when we purchased we asked about resale values and reseached them through the internet. We have actively watched the resale sites and prices through our years years of ownership. Seems strange to me that people would make a sizeable dollar purchase without asking such a question.

I beg to differ with your begging to differ!

There are plenty of people whom have bot into DVC without being aware of the resale market.....I personally know at least 2 and I suspect it's close to being the majority of current members. I DO think that the proportion of resales is much greater in purchases which represent and additional purchase then when compared to first time purchases. Just because you may have been well informed, I don't think you can assume that others are!

 

[kate2961]

Several years ago when we bought into DVC, we went to a presentation at SS. We were only interested in BC and we were told that we would have to go on a waiting list.

We knew about the re-sale market where we could purchase BC at a lower price for the same benefits. There was just no reason for us to buy from Disney.

Since then we purchased another re-sale contract at BC. We never had any problems with our purchases.

This past year things were tough and we needed to sell one of the contracts. Within a couple months the contract was sold and closed for a reasonable price through the re-sale market. I was so thankful that the re-sale market for DVC was so active. My co-worker tried to sell their non-DVC timeshare for a couple years and never found a buyer.

The new policy has changed my opinion of DVC. Without a liquid re-sale market, I don't think this is a good investment for us. The new policy will just significantly de-value what I still own.

Buying DVC in the future will be like buying a new car -- it will depreciate as soon as you buy it becaue you will never be able to sell the contract with the benefits you purchased.

It makes me very sad. I had really hoped to buy back the BC points in the future. I miss my Old DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

My post simply provided a clear demonstration of DVC salespersons potentially providing misleading info as has been discussed and wondering what would be said in the future presentations about resales if asked. (Some of the things said seemed quite misleading to me and the poster even sought out help from these boards for clarification.) What should we expect when they are asked about resales??? It is one thing to put food on the table and another thing to mislead someone and have them make a large purchase without the facts.

I beg to differ that some people don't consider resale value, when we purchased we asked about resale values and reseached them through the internet. We have actively watched the resale sites and prices through our years years of ownership. At no point up until now have we been concerned until this latest change or should I say member enhancement.

Few buyers are even aware of the resale market. Even fewer would look to a DVC Guide for opinions about the future direction of resale prices.

For buyers, the market couldn't be easier to gauge. All one needs to do is go to The Timeshare Store website and review the listings. I don't know why a buyer would even question a Guide on future values or give any credence to their opinion.

 

[Dean]

My post simply provided a clear demonstration of DVC salespersons potentially providing misleading info as has been discussed and wondering what would be said in the future presentations about resales if asked. (Some of the things said seemed quite misleading to me and the poster even sought out help from these boards for clarification.) What should we expect when they are asked about resales??? It is one thing to put food on the table and another thing to mislead someone and have them make a large purchase without the facts.

I beg to differ that some people don't consider resale value, when we purchased we asked about resale values and reseached them through the internet. We have actively watched the resale sites and prices through our years years of ownership. At no point up until now have we been concerned until this latest change or should I say member enhancement.

Have you ever been to a high pressure timeshare tour? With 16 years of experience looking at this issue, I think the times I've seen reported where it appeared the salesperson was intentionally misleading has been VERY rare. And that't coming from one who bought resale but DVC offered to buy it back and make me whole due to a misspeak from the salesperson which affected our choices. You have to realize that the salesperson's job it to get you to buy, not to make sure the purchase is right for you. There's an art to being honest but still making the potential buyer think this is the best thing for them since sliced bread. Good timeshare sales people are about the best sales people anywhere in any situation. They could, if they chose, be very successful conmen and some would argue they are by the very nature of the industry.

I reviewed the OP on the thread and I would not view the info represented as purposefully misleading and I think that's where we differ. You're expecting a complete and absolute answer that weighs all sides of the equation and takes into account one's personal situation. This is not in the nature of sales staff in general plus the sales staff often don't know the ins and outs of the options anyway. It's also not possible in a sales tour for a number of reasons not the least of which is that everyone's expectations and views are different.

You clearly researched resale values based on the info available at the time. What it appears you failed to do, was consider the future possibilities and assumed that what was true then would remain so. You could and likely should have known this wasn't likely to be the case. Regardless, it doesn't matter, because DVD/DVC is not responsible for your resale value.

 

[Dean]

The new policy has changed my opinion of DVC. Without a liquid re-sale market, I don't think this is a good investment for us. The new policy will just significantly de-value what I still own.

I don't see any reason to change the opinion of DVC, mine hasn't changed since we bought 16 years ago. If anything, I've seen them give where I feel they shouldn't such as waive policies due to personal situations, give compensation where none (or as much as was given) was deserved. Maybe I had a more realistic view of DVC that most from the beginning. Certainly the specifics have changed and thus a realistic adjustment of one's view based on facts is appropriate. To change one's view based on emotions and perk changes is simply making the same mistake again that many made up front, not actually looking at the facts and risks of the situation.

 

[CarolAnnC]

As I sit here and look at my wedding rings, I draw somewhat of an analogy. They are high quality diamonds, high quality gold, but whether the gold market goes up or down, it does not affect their value in my eyes. They were not an investment, they serve a purpose that was intended for us. They are, in fact, priceless in my eyes.

 

[gokenin]

Disney Vacation Club is set to unveil a Direct Purchase Benefit program in which some destinations will be withheld from those purchasing points on the secondary market.

Under the new program terms, only points purchased directly through Disney Vacation Club sales agents will be eligible for use toward the Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and Concierge Collection. These ancillary programs feature destinations such as Disney Cruise Line, Adventures by Disney, the Disneyland Hotel and Paradise Pier in Anaheim, Disney's Polynesian and Grand Floridian resorts at Walt Disney World, international hotels at Disneyland Paris, Tokyo Disneyland and Hong Kong Disneyland and more.

In order for resale contract purchases to be eligible for all Member Getaways, the contract must be submitted to DVC by March 20, 2011. As such, all prior resale purchases will also remain eligible for use toward the full slate of Disney Vacation Club destinations.

Resale point purchases which are submitted after March 20 will be ineligible for use toward the Disney, Adventurer and Concierge Collections. Such resale contracts will be valid only for use at the 11 Disney Vacation Club resorts as well as the World Passport Collection which features trading opportunities through RCI and the Buena Vista Trading Company.

Point origination will be tracked down to the contract level. A DVC member with points acquired via a combination of direct and reseller purchases (acquired after 3/20/11) will only be able to use the direct purchase points toward the Disney, Adventurer and Concierge Collection destinations.

All owners will remain subject to the same booking guidelines for Disney Vacation Club resorts. Reservations can be secured 11 months from arrival at one's Home resort and 7 months from arrival at non-Home resorts regardless of whether the points were purchased directly or via a reseller


I don't see the big deal if you ask me do most people buy DVC points in order to go to Disney or to go elsewhere? Nothing in this announcement to me would indicate that the value of your points will take a nosedive simply because the people buying your points will only be limited to vacations at Disney DVC locations ,and world passport destinations

 

[bicker]

I beg to differ that some people don't consider resale value

Perhaps, but of course those who would consider resale value that intently would have recognized all the aspects of the papers they were signing that could affect resale value.

 

[maminnie]

Perhaps, but of course those who would consider resale value that intently would have recognized all the aspects of the papers they were signing that could affect resale value.

There has been nothing in years to indicate that resale values would be effected by anything but supply and demand and the economy. If there had my timeshare interests would have been on the market.

Everyone can just continue to defend DVC/Disney and their practices, but this decision by Disney has likely hurt a vast number of owners should they wish to sell after the 20th.

Some of the members who post in support of Disney have owned their timeshares for years and years and have certainly gotten their moneys worth, may be in the position not to worry about resale, etc. etc. That is not the case for many of our fellow members. Once again we all roll over and play dead to the mouse.....

I hope those that could care less about resale values continue to have a "happily ever after" life.

 

[Chuck S]

There has been nothing in years to indicate that resale values would be effected by anything but supply and demand and the economy. If there had my timeshare interests would have been on the market.

This is not true at all, supply and demand played a role, but ROFR certainly always played a major role as an artificial price support. And there is certainly nothing in our paperwork that indicates Disney/DVC HAS to exercise that right, and continue to support higher resale costs.

Did you expect Disney/DVC to continue ROFR indefinitely, especially as the 2042 resort get closer and closer to contract end date? If so, that was an incorrect assumption on your part.

 

[DVCconvert]

There has been nothing in years to indicate that resale values would be effected by anything but supply and demand and the economy. If there had my timeshare interests would have been on the market.......

I'm unclear on how anyone could form this opinion if they had actually read and understood the DVC purchase agreement and disclosoures - as they're filled with information telling you what DVC could do which would (in many's opinion) have a material effect on resale values of a contract down the road. I'm not 'defending'....just saying that many red flags were on the pole for all to see who read the documents.

 

[CMOORE185]

I hope those that could care less about resale values continue to have a "happily ever after" life.

I do not think anyone could care less about resale value, but you should never buy a timeshare IMHO based on resale value. You should know going in it may have no resale value at some point. Again the value of a timeshare is in its long term use.

 

[jsivigny]

There has been nothing in years to indicate that resale values would be effected by anything but supply and demand and the economy. If there had my timeshare interests would have been on the market.

Everyone can just continue to defend DVC/Disney and their practices, but this decision by Disney has likely hurt a vast number of owners should they wish to sell after the 20th.

Some of the members who post in support of Disney have owned their timeshares for years and years and have certainly gotten their moneys worth, may be in the position not to worry about resale, etc. etc. That is not the case for many of our fellow members. Once again we all roll over and play dead to the mouse.....

I hope those that could care less about resale values continue to have a "happily ever after" life.

Couldn't agree more...

Using the logic of some folks here, when one purchases their DVC contract, we only get what's in writing. Fully agree...but that's not what is MARKETED. We can read a contract...that's not the point. Disney sets certain expectations and promotes them in their literature.

So, here is the question...what would be reaction if Disney exercised the full content of the Contract and forced ALL DVC members to only book at their Home Resorts. That's all that's in our Contracts. To all the defenders of this new policy, that would be a welcome "enhancement". Right? It's in the contract, so it's all we should expect.

 

[Chuck S]

Couldn't agree more...

Using the logic of some folks here, when one purchases their DVC contract, we only get what's in writing. Fully agree...but that's not what is MARKETED. We can read a contract...that's not the point. Disney sets certain expectations and promotes them in their literature.

So, here is the question...what would be reaction if Disney exercised the full content of the Contract and forced ALL DVC members to only book at their Home Resorts. That's all that's in our Contracts. To all the defenders of this new policy, that would be a welcome "enhancement". Right? It's in the contract, so it's all we should expect.

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me in the least. I've never used points anywhere but my hone resort since 1992.

And, at some point, they may very well limit us to our home resorts, I think this is very likely for the last full year of our contracts.

 

[Figment2]

So, here is the question...what would be reaction if Disney exercised the full content of the Contract and forced ALL DVC members to only book at their Home Resorts. That's all that's in our Contracts. To all the defenders of this new policy, that would be a welcome "enhancement". Right? It's in the contract, so it's all we should expect.

I'm with Chuck, wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

[wcjoey43]

they could have and still may make it a lot worse