Testing refusal rates in your district

[Ceila]

Exactly what state am I in? My son graduated college last May!

Well, your profile says you are from California, but since you mentioned the midwest, I assume you have moved. Regardless, I can find no mention of any state requiring a certain score on the ACT to graduate. Further, you did say that your high school junior took the test, so the PP probably didn't realize it was your daughter and not your son.

Since you admitted that the test was experimental, and since there is no evidence that the scores count for anything, I wouldn't expect any uproar over a computer glitch. Apples to oranges.

 

[undertheradar]

Well, your profile says you are from California, but since you mentioned the midwest, I assume you have moved. Regardless, I can find no mention of any state requiring a certain score on the ACT to graduate. Further, you did say that your high school junior took the test, so the PP probably didn't realize it was your daughter and not your son.

Since you admitted that the test was experimental, and since there is no evidence that the scores count for anything, I wouldn't expect any uproar over a computer glitch. Apples to oranges.

Yet we received an email questionaire regarding Saturday's test? Yes, the scores do count and there is a minimum score required for graduation. The hatred for the CC testing is simply amazing

 

[IDoDis]

Well, your profile says you are from California, but since you mentioned the midwest, I assume you have moved. Regardless, I can find no mention of any state requiring a certain score on the ACT to graduate. Further, you did say that your high school junior took the test, so the PP probably didn't realize it was your daughter and not your son.

Since you admitted that the test was experimental, and since there is no evidence that the scores count for anything, I wouldn't expect any uproar over a computer glitch. Apples to oranges.

Hmmmm... According to a post of hers just a week ago she was living in CA which does not require the ACT. I smell a rat!!!

 

[sam_gordon]

Thank your lucky stars that your state took the time to roll out the standards and gave schools 4 years to get used to them before counting the tests towards grad requirements which doesn't start until next year. Also the tests seem much more manageable with a fraction of the time spent testing. The bad news is that the math scores in Kentucky continue to drop. Look for that to be an issue next year when these tests count towards graduation requirements. Also, only 19% have passable ACT scores. Despite that, I think this whole CCSS roll out would have been much more successful across the country had Kentucky's model been followed by the rest of the states!

I think you've just admitted the point some of us are trying to make... not that the testing is great or needed, but that HOW a state/district rolled out CC (what's the SS?) can help determine how "successful" it is. Some areas took an "easy" way out, and now they're paying for it. But what we're hearing (or at least reading online) is how bad the tests and standards are, not that the decision makers messed up the implementation.

 

[zoemurr]

An article about what was on the NYS test. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...d-by-some-questions-on-n-y-common-core-tests/

 

[undertheradar]

Hmmmm... According to a post of hers just a week ago she was living in CA which does not require the ACT. I smell a rat!!!

No rat here, perhaps reading what is written is important. Midwest. Prior to that, SoCal.

 

[nugov2]

I think you've just admitted the point some of us are trying to make... not that the testing is great or needed, but that HOW a state/district rolled out CC (what's the SS?) can help determine how "successful" it is. Some areas took an "easy" way out, and now they're paying for it. But what we're hearing (or at least reading online) is how bad the tests and standards are, not that the decision makers messed up the implementation.

Exactly!!! Yet because I keep talking about the succes in my state in both my district and the multiple districts I have friends teaching in I'm met with sarcasm and criticism. I find it funny because how would it benefit me or anyone else not against it to lie....oh wait I've been accused of working for Pearson lol. Well I am glad at least one person against the movement can see that it is in the roll out and the stakes some states have attached.

Thank your lucky stars that your state took the time to roll out the standards and gave schools 4 years to get used to them before counting the tests towards grad requirements which doesn't start until next year. Also the tests seem much more manageable with a fraction of the time spent testing. The bad news is that the math scores in Kentucky continue to drop. Look for that to be an issue next year when these tests count towards graduation requirements. Also, only 19% have passable ACT scores. Despite that, I think this whole CCSS roll out would have been much more successful across the country had Kentucky's model been followed by the rest of the states!

I did a quick search and I don't see Kentucky requiring students to pass these tests to graduate. Maybe I'm missing it though.

 

[jodifla]

An article about what was on the NYS test. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...d-by-some-questions-on-n-y-common-core-tests/

Good grief. What an atrocious article to test on. From that same web link:

"Disgusted teachers and parents are defying the “gag order” and talking about the tests, anonymously, on blogs. The sixth-grade test has consistently come under fire, especially during Day 3 when an article entitled, “Nimbus Clouds: Mysterious, Ephemeral, and Now Indoors” from the Smithsonian Magazine appeared on one version of the test.

Here is a passage from the article:

As a result, the location of the cloud is an important aspect, as it is the setting for his creation and part of the artwork. In his favorite piece, Nimbus D’Aspremont, the architecture of the D’Aspremont-Lynden Castle in Rekem, Belgium, plays a significant role in the feel of the picture. “The contrast between the original castle and its former use as a military hospital and mental institution is still visible,” he writes. “You could say the spaces function as a plinth for the work.”

 

[jodifla]

sorry -- double post

 

[pryncess527]

NPR has a story today about the opt-out movement --- http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2015/04...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20150420

Some highlights from the article:

According to the advocates' own tally, about 175,000 opted out in several hundred New York districts. That's big for a protest, but pretty small compared with the millions of students enrolled in public school in the state.

At the same time, even small numbers can make an impact in a particular school. That's because No Child Left Behind, the federal testing law, states that if fewer than 95 percent of students take the test, it can cause the school to be labeled "failing to make progress."

Edited to make clear that the above section is quoted from the article, not my personal assessment of the situation.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Some highlights:

According to the advocates' own tally, about 175,000 opted out in several hundred New York districts. That's big for a protest, but pretty small compared with the millions of students enrolled in public school in the state.

At the same time, even small numbers can make an impact in a particular school. That's because No Child Left Behind, the federal testing law, states that if fewer than 95 percent of students take the test, it can cause the school to be labeled "failing to make progress."

Two things: Correct-175,000 isn't a lot, but it is more than double than last year. This thing isn't over-it may take some time. Who knows, maybe next year will be double this year.

Second thing: No school as of yet has been penalized for having less than 95%. See this link for the full article but here is an important highlight:
http://www.nysape.org/if-my-child-refuses-state-tests-will-my-school-lose-funding.html

Important Consideration:

Let’s consider a worst case scenario. Let’s say that a district/school happens to be Title I. Let’s assume that they fail the 95% participation rate. Let’s assume that the ESEA Waiver is imaginary (like Peter Pan). Let’s assume that the district/school is not listed as “Focus” for any other reason other than the 95% participation rate. Let’s assume that the NYSED forces the district to set aside 15% of their Title I money solely because responsible well-informed parents refuse tests (even though NYSED has never done this to date). Let’s assume the school district does not stand-up for the children and does not file a lawsuit. Let’s assume that a court does not intervene to prevent funding loss to school children. Let’s assume that all of the set-aside money happens to be spent on state approved programs (that are somehow supposed to magically fix the participation rate caused by responsible well-informed parents standing up for their children). Let’s assume that none of the set-aside money goes back into the general fund. Let’s assume that this district receives $1,250,000 in Title I funding and has to set-aside $187,000 (15%) and is forced to spend all of it on state approved programs (that won’t fix the participation rate). Let’s assume that this district has 15,000 taxpaying households.

Let’s assume that ALL of that above happens (which seem ridiculous). Then each taxpaying household would have to come up with an extra $12.50 per year ($187,000 divided by 15,000 households) to replace the money spent on senseless programs. Wow! $12.50 per year??? Still worried about funding???

- See more at: http://www.nysape.org/if-my-child-r...school-lose-funding.html#sthash.Snb7KPDQ.dpuf

 

[undertheradar]

Somehow the math is off. 15% of $1,250,000. is $187,500.

 

[Heidi K]

According to the advocates' own tally, about 175,000 opted out in several hundred New York districts. That's big for a protest, but pretty small compared with the millions of students enrolled in public school in the state.

Your point that 175,000 refusals in NY is an insignificant number does not make sense to me. First of all, that number was based on approximately 70% of schools reporting. The final tally should meet or exceed 200,000 refusals. In addition, although there may be millions of public school children in NYS, there are 1.1 million eligible for these tests (3rd through 8th graders). That means 15 to 20 percent have refused the ELA tests, and the number is expected to rise for the Math tests this week. And remember, the default is for kids to take the test, which means every one of those refusals was prompted by a parent taking the initiative and sending a letter to the school.

 

[pryncess527]

Your point that 175,000 refusals in NY is an insignificant number does not make sense to me. First of all, that number was based on approximately 70% of schools reporting. The final tally should meet or exceed 200,000 refusals. In addition, although there may be millions of public school children in NYS, there are 1.1 million eligible for these tests (3rd through 8th graders). That means 15 to 20 percent have refused the ELA tests, and the number is expected to rise for the Math tests this week. And remember, the default is for kids to take the test, which means every one of those refusals was prompted by a parent taking the initiative and sending a letter to the school.

FWIW, it's not my point. I'm just quoting an NPR article. It was the first news source I have seen that gave actual figures for how many people were opting out.

 

[nugov2]

Two things: Correct-175,000 isn't a lot, but it is more than double than last year. This thing isn't over-it may take some time. Who knows, maybe next year will be double this year.

Second thing: No school as of yet has been penalized for having less than 95%. See this link for the full article but here is an important highlight:
http://www.nysape.org/if-my-child-refuses-state-tests-will-my-school-lose-funding.html

Important Consideration:

Let’s consider a worst case scenario. Let’s say that a district/school happens to be Title I. Let’s assume that they fail the 95% participation rate. Let’s assume that the ESEA Waiver is imaginary (like Peter Pan). Let’s assume that the district/school is not listed as “Focus” for any other reason other than the 95% participation rate. Let’s assume that the NYSED forces the district to set aside 15% of their Title I money solely because responsible well-informed parents refuse tests (even though NYSED has never done this to date). Let’s assume the school district does not stand-up for the children and does not file a lawsuit. Let’s assume that a court does not intervene to prevent funding loss to school children. Let’s assume that all of the set-aside money happens to be spent on state approved programs (that are somehow supposed to magically fix the participation rate caused by responsible well-informed parents standing up for their children). Let’s assume that none of the set-aside money goes back into the general fund. Let’s assume that this district receives $1,250,000 in Title I funding and has to set-aside $187,000 (15%) and is forced to spend all of it on state approved programs (that won’t fix the participation rate). Let’s assume that this district has 15,000 taxpaying households.

Let’s assume that ALL of that above happens (which seem ridiculous). Then each taxpaying household would have to come up with an extra $12.50 per year ($187,000 divided by 15,000 households) to replace the money spent on senseless programs. Wow! $12.50 per year??? Still worried about funding???

- See more at: http://www.nysape.org/if-my-child-r...school-lose-funding.html#sthash.Snb7KPDQ.dpuf

So when I said why not try to get the community together to help get more labs to reduce issues and anxiety on students people claimed poverty and families not even making ends meet and the cost would only amount to a few dollars per household and that was shot down, but these same people can now come up with 12.50. Weird.

 

[Heidi K]

Wow, thanks for clarifying! Now I need to contact NPR and tell them that "millions" of students are not taking these tests. I can't believe a writer for a major news outlet wouldn't bother to find the actual number!

I believe it's hard to find the opt-out number because NY state officials won't release numbers until the summer, but the group that's compiling these unofficial numbers is taking great care to be as accurate as possible.

FWIW, it's not my point. I'm just quoting an NPR article. It was the first news source I have seen that gave actual figures for how many people were opting out.

 

[nugov2]

I find this quote interesting and feel that it is this reason we won't see the testing going anywhere.

"The irony is that even as parents are raising such a ruckus, there's a draft bill in the Senate right now that wouldremove a lot of the federal high stakes from tests and could turn the temperature down on testing nationwide. It gives a lot more leeway to the states in deciding what accountability should look like.

Take the issue of using test scores in teacher evaluations. The U.S. Department of Education promoted that idea in Race to the Top in 2009. But this new bill backs off from that position. That's at least partly because a lot of objections have emerged to this method, called value-added measurement. TheAmerican Statistical Association says making assumptions about the performance of all teachers based on year-over-year multiple-choice tests in math and reading alone is a complicated, difficult and unreliable way to evaluate the performance of teachers who may be teaching a range of subjects in different ways."

 

[Tinijocaro]

Somehow the math is off. 15% of $1,250,000. is $187,500.

Must be that common core math.

 

[undertheradar]

Your point that 175,000 refusals in NY is an insignificant number does not make sense to me. First of all, that number was based on approximately 70% of schools reporting. The final tally should meet or exceed 200,000 refusals. In addition, although there may be millions of public school children in NYS, there are 1.1 million eligible for these tests (3rd through 8th graders). That means 15 to 20 percent have refused the ELA tests, and the number is expected to rise for the Math tests this week. And remember, the default is for kids to take the test, which means every one of those refusals was prompted by a parent taking the initiative and sending a letter to the school.

Do you find it interesting that these numbers are being provided, yet if you wanted to know the actual number of eligible students you would have to wait for ALL of the numbers to be reported. Too much speculation being used as fact to take any of these numbers seriously.

 

[undertheradar]

Must be that common core math.

From our experience, it is hard to find a good math teacher using any teaching method.