Teen bullying leads to a double suicide

[Minnesota!]

My DD12 has been the victim of bullying this school year. Middle school girls are mean! They come after her at school constantly, surrounding her, taunting her to fight until the teachers finally notice and stop it. They approached her around town trying to fight her. They've left threats on FB about fighting her. We've been to the school more times than we can count constantly on them to do something. Finally with the FB threat, we called the police and the girl is now on probation for simple assault. This seems to have finally gotten the attention of the other girls in that "pack" and they've been leaving her alone. It was a real fight for us to get somebody to listen to us about all this. The schools want to deny it's a problem.

Heather

I am so so so sorry. It has to be so incredibly hard, as a parent, to watch your child be so sad.

I bolded the part of your statement I wanted to address. The part in the news story that is quoted above that bothered me the most was that it stated that,

"Haylee had reportedly been under fire by classmates for her weight and was also expelled from her Marshall Middle School for getting into a fight defending Paige."

If this is true than I am so angry. This is why we can't have blanket policies concerning kids and bullying. Expelling kids is not always the right answer. What good does expelling a kid for defending themselves or a good friend (because they can't or wont) and then not getting to the bottom of the problem.

Haylee reportedly did stand up for herself and it didn't do much good. We can debate all day/night about whether getting in a fight is the right way to stand up for oneself but once the fight happened someone needs to figure out why and get help.

That is what has me speechless. Granted, we don't know all the details, but if EITHER ONE OF THEM had been defending themselves/each other vs bullies...I really could give 2 $I%*(# about "zero tolerance". Where the hell is the "zero tolerance" when those bullies come around? I am so fricking sick and tired of administration, teachers, PARENTS, and other kids sitting on their hands with their mouths shut while bullies continue to torment other kids. Growing up, hormones, and the world in general is such a hard place...bullies only make it a million times worse. Ugh. My heart just really really hurts for those that are bullied.

In full disclosure...I was a bully...to 2 girls. I made their lives HELL!! In 7th grade, it was a girl named Sarah. She was new to our (very small) school...she came from Virginia and she was just different. Accent, carried a purse, was too forthcoming with personal information, etc. Ugh...she got it bad. I remember one night sitting up in my bed and it HIT me what I was putting her through and I cried and cried. I felt so bad. That day prior, we had to do group assignments and she got assigned to my group, and she looked me in the eyes and said "I am sorry that you have to have me in your group". And then she looked down and you could tell how miserable she was. It haunted me! I wrote her a letter and apologized. Still, being that I was trying to maintain face at school, I was never overly nice to her, but I stopped being mean. However, I hung out with her outside of school....out of guilt, and then finally because I realized I enjoyed being around her.

You would have thought I had learned my lesson but in high school, a dear friend of mine became "the dork", and, again, trying to maintain status, I shunned her and bullied her. Ugh. It was awful. I was LITERALLY her only friend...and when I turned on her...she had nobody. She had a very hard life and I know I made it that much worse. One time I turned around in Geometry and punched her right in the side of the head. In full view of the teacher and all the other kids. Nothing happened. She didn't fight back, I didn't get in trouble. She just took it. She talked many many many times about killing herself. Thank God she never did.

We became friends again my senior year, and maintained that friendship for 3 years before a huge rift came between us...something she caused, but to this day, I believe it was karma biting me in the butt. She reached out to me about 5 years later, and though we never hang out....we are friendly with each other and talk on a semi regular basis.

I regret, every single day, how miserable I made those 2 girls. And I worry that karma will come around once again, and strike at my kids. Ugh. I wish I could go back and tell my 13 - 16 year old self to stop being a wench.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I just wanted to say, I wish that there were no repercussions for those simply defending themselves against those that make their lives hell. The bully should be the ONLY one punished. What is worse - the bullied person fighting back, or the bullied person taking it....and then it gets to be too much and they end up hanging themselves because of it?

I teach my kids to initially WALK AWAY. Don't give the bully the satisfaction. But then, I tell them, if the bully comes back...tell an adult. If the adult doesn't listen/doesn't do anything and the bully comes back again - kick his ***. I have no problems with my kids fighting to defend themselves. I will back them all the way. And heaven knows, if there is a consequence at school for my child b/c of the bullying....there had better be one even stronger for the bully!!!!

 

[angie@dvcstore]

This is so sad. I hate to hear stories like these

 

[dhcoffey]

I know in our situation, my husband and myself really had to fight hard to get anyone to pay attention to us about the bullying. The school would give us lip service, oh, we'll talk to the bully, we'll watch out for your daughter at school. If we had listened to them, I don't know what would have happened to our daughter. Like I said, they still bullied her, yelling out other classrooms as she walked by, calling her a skank, slut. The whole 7th grade have break at the same time. Yes, there are teachers out there but I don't think they pay attention very well. Like I said, they would surround her and call her names and try to fight her.

I told my daughter and taught her that not everyone is your friend and not everyone will like you. She had great self esteem before this started happening. The constant taunting and name calling and never knowing if one of the girls will be in the bathroom the same time as you is horrible and really beat her down. She was scared to go to school.

We didn't let it go, though, and like I said finally had her arrested for simple assault. I'm thinking the "pack" of girls finally got the message not to mess with my daughter anymore because so far for the past week and a half, it's been good at school for her. I won't put up with it but many parents say they don't know what to do about it. You can't let it go. You have to be proactive. I tried to teach her to deal with the name calling on her own but when it started getting physical, I had had enough.

Heather

 

[golfgal]

A friend of mine, his daughter was friends with these girls. It is so so so sad. I cannot imagine how alone they must have felt to do something like this. Bullying HAS TO stop! And, we need to start teaching our kids 1) to not bully but 2) to not TAKE the bullying!!! Stand up for themselves. I just hate it hate it hate it!

I worry so much about how things will play out for my kids in school....

We know the one family as well. Paige was the goalie for the girl's hockey team. Her family had NO IDEA this was going on. She has a lot of friends and teammates and would have slumber parties, friends over all the time, etc.

I just came here to post about that.

I don't understand why public schools, in 20-freaking-11 don't have support systems for kids. My best friend in 9th grade and I could EASILY have been these girls, circa 1994.

I know for a FACT that this district DOES have a good support system for kids that are being bullied--the problem is, bullies are sneaky and kids don't always bring it to the attention of the school officials.

There is more to the fight then the girls just defending themselves.

 

[castmember19]

I know in our situation, my husband and myself really had to fight hard to get anyone to pay attention to us about the bullying. The school would give us lip service, oh, we'll talk to the bully, we'll watch out for your daughter at school. If we had listened to them, I don't know what would have happened to our daughter. Like I said, they still bullied her, yelling out other classrooms as she walked by, calling her a skank, slut. The whole 7th grade have break at the same time. Yes, there are teachers out there but I don't think they pay attention very well. Like I said, they would surround her and call her names and try to fight her.

I told my daughter and taught her that not everyone is your friend and not everyone will like you. She had great self esteem before this started happening. The constant taunting and name calling and never knowing if one of the girls will be in the bathroom the same time as you is horrible and really beat her down. She was scared to go to school.

We didn't let it go, though, and like I said finally had her arrested for simple assault. I'm thinking the "pack" of girls finally got the message not to mess with my daughter anymore because so far for the past week and a half, it's been good at school for her. I won't put up with it but many parents say they don't know what to do about it. You can't let it go. You have to be proactive. I tried to teach her to deal with the name calling on her own but when it started getting physical, I had had enough.

Heather

As a IDS major, I hate hearing stories about how the school does nothing. How can the school just sit there and do nothing? ESPECIALLY with all the suicide stories about bullying that have come up recently. It frustrates me to no end.

 

[RockAndRollBallerina]

Schools have got to take bullying a lot more seriously, or things like this will continue.

Frankly, I will never understand why schools don't just call it harassment and get rid of the term bullying all together. I also don't understand why schools don't turn these incidents, particularly the repeat ones over to the police liaison officers who are on campus. This way these kids get a reality check of their behavior towards others.

 

[golfgal]

Schools have got to take bullying a lot more seriously, or things like this will continue.

Frankly, I will never understand why schools don't just call it harassment and get rid of the term bullying all together. I also don't understand why schools don't turn these incidents, particularly the repeat ones over to the police liaison officers who are on campus. This way these kids get a reality check of their behavior towards others.

Not to make excuses for the bully or place blame on the victim but bullies are sneaky and schools have to deal with two kids each telling a different story so a lot of it becomes one child's word against another's. 20/20 or Dateline or one of those shows did an undercover story on bullying several years ago. They showed how easy it is for a kid to bully another and how well they hide what is going on. They showed one kid punching another in the stomach repeatedly from the front angle and from the back it just looked like two kids with their arms around each other in a "you are my good buddy" one armed hug. I bought this video and gave it to our kids' school because it was so well done. Our son was a victim of bullies (in this same town which is why I know about their support system) and it is VERY HARD to "catch" a bully. Yes, our son had a lot of stories about what was happening but he wasn't completely blameless either so sorting things out was very difficult.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Not to make excuses for the bully or place blame on the victim but bullies are sneaky and schools have to deal with two kids each telling a different story so a lot of it becomes one child's word against another's. 20/20 or Dateline or one of those shows did an undercover story on bullying several years ago. They showed how easy it is for a kid to bully another and how well they hide what is going on. They showed one kid punching another in the stomach repeatedly from the front angle and from the back it just looked like two kids with their arms around each other in a "you are my good buddy" one armed hug. I bought this video and gave it to our kids' school because it was so well done. Our son was a victim of bullies (in this same town which is why I know about their support system) and it is VERY HARD to "catch" a bully. Yes, our son had a lot of stories about what was happening but he wasn't completely blameless either so sorting things out was very difficult.

Yeah, but that was so not the situation here. These kids had statuses on their facebook that let people know they were in trouble.

 

[joviroxx]

And yet parents continue to allow their kids to have FB. FB age is 13, not 12. Why do these 12 yr olds have FB? I realize 13 and older also face the technobullying issue, but with the potential issues, why are parents vigilant to make sure their kids are NOT on fb at 11 and 12 and even younger! Ive had this fight with my kids for years. You aren't 13, no FB, no computers in their rooms only family areas. No smartphones with data. We keep putting kids in situation that they are not capable of handling yet and then we wonder......

The longer we keep putting kids in adult situation with the hundreds of rationalizations I have heard from parents, the more things like this will happen. Why?

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

And yet parents continue to allow their kids to have FB. FB age is 13, not 12. Why do these 12 yr olds have FB? I realize 13 and older also face the technobullying issue, but with the potential issues, why are parents vigilant to make sure their kids are NOT on fb at 11 and 12 and even younger! Ive had this fight with my kids for years. You aren't 13, no FB, no computers in their rooms only family areas. No smartphones with data. We keep putting kids in situation that they are not capable of handling yet and then we wonder......

The longer we keep putting kids in adult situation with the hundreds of rationalizations I have heard from parents, the more things like this will happen. Why?

These girls were 14.

 

[Goofyluver]

These girls were 14.

Unfortunately, as proven with this case, 14 is still not old enough.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Schools have got to take bullying a lot more seriously, or things like this will continue.

Frankly, I will never understand why schools don't just call it harassment and get rid of the term bullying all together. I also don't understand why schools don't turn these incidents, particularly the repeat ones over to the police liaison officers who are on campus. This way these kids get a reality check of their behavior towards others.

Oh yeah!!!!!

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Do you really think its just that kids can't handle the fact that everyone doesn't like them?

Well, in essence yes but if you read my entire post you would see that i don't think it is the ONLY contributing factor. It's a part of a few things. Bottom line is that someone has to start using their brains. The bullies aren't losing sleep over the fact that theses girls killed themselves and the world is short of 2 people who had a a lot of life ahead of them.

I have yet to hear a report from a bully who was the part of the mental bashing of someone who ended up killing themselves. I'd love to hear how theses suicides are affecting them or aren't.

 

[Tiger926]

Very sad.
I can't believe the school expelled her. That's one of the problems though. The school expelled her but what about the kids who were teasing her? That is another issue we've taken kids ability to defend themselves away. There needs to be more kids like the one in Australia who just punched the kid and walked away. That bully won't be attacking anyone else ever again.

At the same time where did the pride and confidence go? How is it that so many kids think that killing themselves is the answer. Everyone is not going to like you. Why can't kids handle that?

There are mean people in the world. You can either wallow in it or enjoy your life with the people who enjoy you. People are always going to find something they don't like about you whether they say it to your face or behind your back.

This fabulous technology and these internet social sites are what the problem is. They are too connected to each other and information is too instant. Kids can't handle it.

yes but the story once was: Kid is teased his/her whole life. Takes that and uses it becomes better goes back sees the loser bully hasn't grown into much. Best revenge ever. Now kids are just killing themselves. makes me wonder what the difference is now? Are we raising for the lack of a better term, whimps or is it because the social "playing field" is always "Live" because of Twitter, facebook and the like.

Oh, boy...your posts always leave me scratching my head. I can't believe that you are calling 2 dead young girls "wimps" and intimating that they didn't have pride in themselves. The fact that you seem to be blaming bullying victims is disgusting.

As a parent and a highschool teacher, and frankly as a human being, your lack of understanding makes my head and heart hurt...

My heart breaks for these girls and their families. One of our biggest fears as teachers is having to go the funeral of our students, especially ones in which they have taken their own lives.

I think for the 1st time in the history of all of my years on the DIS, I may have to officially enact the Ignore button.

Tiger

 

[Jennasis]

Has it been mentioned here yet that the family (per their interview on the news this morning) thinks that there may possibly have been a romantic relationship between the girls and that their confusion over their feelings may have played a role.

 

[Tiger926]

Schools have got to take bullying a lot more seriously, or things like this will continue.

Frankly, I will never understand why schools don't just call it harassment and get rid of the term bullying all together. I also don't understand why schools don't turn these incidents, particularly the repeat ones over to the police liaison officers who are on campus. This way these kids get a reality check of their behavior towards others.

Aside from substance abuse, bullying is the second hardest thing for us to deal with at the school level. With the advent of social media, it is almost impossible for us to get a handle on bullying.

It is a big problem in our schools - both my kids have had issues with bully behaviours the past few weeks in school, and as I discussed it with my teaching colleagues at lunch, out of the 6 of us with kids at the table, all of our children have had issues with bullying behaviour or repeat bullies. As parents who are teachers, it is almost impossible for us to get a handle on it, so for regular parents, it's even worse. My daughter was physically hurt last week, and I spoke to both teachers, and they really didn't seem to get it - I'm a teaching colleague, so it frustrated me even more, as I know how they should have handled it, but they basically ignored her, and thought she was fibbing. They deduced that she didn't need attention for an injury, because most young kids cry wolf all day long, without even checking her leg. She had a big puffy bruise, that needed attention. I left shaking me head, but it did have an impact, as I received a note about my daughter hurting herself this week (she banged her wrist) - I demanded that they tell me when she is injured, and if it involves another student, I want written reports.

As I mentioned on the other thread (Facebook Feud leads to murder), most highschool teachers hate social media, as it's making our jobs even harder than they already are. It is getting so hard to protect our 'kids' these days, thanks to social media.

Tiger

 

[hereyago]

Frankly, I will never understand why schools don't just call it harassment and get rid of the term bullying all together. I also don't understand why schools don't turn these incidents, particularly the repeat ones over to the police liaison officers who are on campus..

Um, there was a story the other night about a nearby 16 yo who has been bullied by this girl, even had the girl's voice on her voice mail threatening to beat her butt, the bully even sent the girl a picture of the bully with a picture drawn of a gun pointed at a girl that was supposed to be the victim with the victim in the picture saying please don't kill me, along with other things:

cops won't do anything. But if the victim sends a certified letter to the bully asking her to stop and the girl writes back 3 times, then they can do something.

well whoop pi di do. protect and serve is a joke.

 

[klhill]

Every time I hear another one of these stories it makes me want to cry. I have had to deal with issues with my 11 year old since she started middle school. Just about every time I turn around she's coming home upset about something. The first time this girls mother caught my daughter getting off the school bus at school and got in her face all because my daughter told the girl that she did not like that she yelled at people all the time. Now the rumor is that my daughter is Gay. It's heartbreaking to see her come home crying and figuring out ways to take care of this.

Based on some comments earlier. .. I know that when we were going up bullying was a whole different thing. Like someone said it use to stay at school and it was just that bully and maybe a couple of his/her friends, but that is not the case anymore. Now everyone chimes in along with the bully. Facebook and cell phones do not help. My daughter will not get a phone until she is older and I do not allow any of my kids to have a computer in their room. The computer is in the living room and as I sit and watch tv I can glance over and see the computer screen and whats being written.

The problem ... as I see it ... bad parenting.

 

[agnes!]

And that still happens, but I think unfortunately there are many who did take their own lives when we were younger over stuff like this, we just didnt hear about it. The news media wasnt as widespread to hear about two girls all the way across the country, today we all know about it.

I just dont get why kids have to be mean to each other, I really dont. And I think we as parents need to take a good long look at ourselves that are kids are involved in this stuff. My kids know quite well that if I ever hear they were bullying (physically or verbally) another child, they can kiss all their things goodbye. I think too many parents get that phone call and then say not my little boy/girl.

I agree, but what I don't get is why ADULTS have to be so mean to each other. Believe me, adults can be just as catty as little Susie and Johnny. And what is gossip anyway?...I'd say just another word for verbal bullying. I'm going through something right now with some friends(?) that has morphed from a schoolyard issue and if you had told me a couple of months ago that things would be this way right now, I never would have believed you.

agnes!

 

[MKCP1984]

I agree, but what I don't get is why ADULTS have to be so mean to each other. Believe me, adults can be just as catty as little Susie and Johnny. And what is gossip anyway?...I'd say just another word for verbal bullying. I'm going through something right now with some friends(?) that has morphed from a schoolyard issue and if you had told me a couple of months ago that things would be this way right now, I never would have believed you.

agnes!

Absolutely!!! Mean-spirited people raise mean children.