Teaching Hanukkah and Santa in school - but no Jesus?

[Aisling]

I think schools should explain what Christmas and Hanukkah are, both miracles from God, according to those who practice those religions.

Where a menorah is allowed, a nativity scene should be allowed, as both are religious objects.

Or a dreidle and a Christmas tree, if people want to keeps things secular.

 

[JVL1018]

DS is in middle school and in the chamber choir. I'm surprised at how religious some of their songs for next week's concerts are. They do try to cover as many of the major religions as they can, but they definitely do not stick to the secular songs the way they did in elementary school. As far as I know, no one has complained.

Last year in 1st grade, DD's grade did a "concert". They all dressed in PJs and sang lullabyes from around the world.
One was about angels and it went something like"
All night, all day, angels watching over me, my Lord.

I was surprised(not upset in the least), and told DD's teacher I was surprised that that was allowed, and she said that the music department "gets away" with a lot of stuff like that because it's artistic freedom. LOL

No one was upset and we have a very diverse school. It was great.

 

[coliebird]

My kids school does both Hannukah and Christmas(those two words are even on DD's spelling test ), but there really isn't a religious tone to it.

They learn the dreidel song and the light the menorah song in music as well as Jingle Bells and other non religious Christmas songs.

They have Christmas trees in the hallways and in art the kids all make ornaments, each grade has a theme, last year DD's class made Arthur ornaments, the year before they had a NYC tree and they made taxi ornaments.

There are colored pictures of menorahs and dreidels on the walls.
Their worksheets are Hannukah and Christmas and Kwanzaa related.

They also learn a little about Ramadan and Diwali. If kids celebrate something else, they are more than welcome to have their parents come in and tell all the other students about it.

I think it's terrific, they include everything so they don't have to exclude anything.
The kids really don't learn the religious aspect, instead they learn about the customs that go along with these events.

This is what my daughter's school is like also. They had a Hannukkah party last week where they got dreidels and chocolate gelt as favors and they made latkas (I know I spelled that wrong, sorry). Next Friday they are having a Christmas party. They will decorate Santa cupcakes. I think it's great that they do both.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Same thing happen when my 2 DDs were in elementary school 3 years ago.
The younger ones last year was the worse. The teacher asked the class mother( a Baptist) to make latkas. They both told the class the story of Chanukkah, lit the menorah, driedles etc.

A week later the class mother wanted to do a little something for Christmas.
The teacher said no religion will be mentioned at the Winter Party.

Yet the week before it was okay to do it.

 

[Jacklynn]

I personally think it is because people got offended that it was allowed to be freely spoken about, they got tired of it, so they totally reversed it, and now Christianity is hardly allowed to be spoken about but everyone is diverse enough to speak of other beliefs. There is nothing wrong with teaching other things, but we should probably keep the orginal thing is place as well.

I would have NO problem with my kid learning about other religious holidays, in fact I want my kids (when I have them) to be very well rounded kids, I want them to know the diverse things of this world, but shouldn't other's who do not believe like my family does get the opportunity to be well rounded as well by hearing what we believe Christmas is about as well? (and I don't mean Santa... though I have no problems with the big Jolly guy).

Sorry I just had a discussion with someone the other day (so this is why I am including this part... not trying to stir up anything AT ALL, fighting about religion is silly because that isn't going to make anyone believe how you do, discussion is what allows people's minds to remain opened, that being said not trying to argue at all!) about how the first amendment applies to everyone but Christians... everyone wants to be able to have their say, but as soon as a Christian tries to state their views everyone jumps on them and says that can't be said here and that we are shoving out thoughts down people's throats.... and then they go back to telling the world about what they beleive and why they should beleive that way....

Sorry... haha it was a rather interesting discussion (btw, when I say Christians, I mean those who have a relationship with Christ... not those who say they are Christians but then turn around and flip people off driving to work... not the ones who give those who truly stive to be like Christ a bad name).

Long story short... I hope they continue to teach various faiths equally, so that children can be well rounded and at least have knowledge of them.

 

[Jacklynn]

Same thing happen when my 2 DDs were in elementary school 3 years ago.
The younger ones last year was the worse. The teacher asked the class mother( a Baptist) to make latkas. They both told the class the story of Chaukkah, lit the menorah, driedles etc.

A week later the class mother wanted to do a little something for Christmas.
The teacher said no religion will be mentioned at the Winter Party.

Yet the week before it was okay to do that.

Exactly what I meant in my post everyone wants to be diverse, as long as that doesn't include Christianity... It's not like the Baptist mom refused to help with the story of Chaukkah, so its not like she was going to try to be pushy.

 

[Jacklynn]

Ops, sorry guys for some reason it posted the same message twice. Sorry about that!

 

[Fitswimmer]

Oh yes, we Christians are SO persecuted in this country...we're the majority religion, all our businesses, schools and government offices close for our holidays, our churches are granted tax exempt status and are on every corner, we can go to any Church we want without fear, we can and do speak openly about our faith everywhere, no politician dares end a speech without saying God Bless America, our employers can't force us to work on our Sabbath.....wow, it's really rough over here.


Try being a Christian in the Middle East or in Africa for a while.....

 

[EthansMom]

At our school, we have a "Holidays Around the World", which is sometime next week. Each grade sets up a different craft/game representing a winter celebration from a different country in the world. All of the kids then visit each grade and do the different crafts/games to learn how winter holidays are celebrated elsewhere in the world.

We also have a Winter Concert, which should have been yesterday but will probably be next week now because we had a snow day yesterday. Last year's Winter Concert featured several secular Christmas songs and a couple of Hanukkah songs, but no Christian songs.

Each class has a Holiday Party the friday before the winter break. It has to be non-religious and preferably shouldn't lean too heavily on "Santa giving presents". For DS6's First Grade class, we're serving cookies and juice, decorating foam ornaments shaped like Christmas lights, playing Holiday Bingo, and giving the kids goody bags. I think Santa shows up as a character on some of the bingo cards, but what are you going to do?

 

[Buckalew11]

I don't have a problem with it not being mentioned in public school.
I think if one is talked about the others should be also.

I have no problems with my DD learning about other beliefs. However, I chose to send DD to a christian school because I DO want her religion intertwined with the different subjects she is learning. That's my choice and I pay dearly for that choice. I am just not sure how you would really talk about the *real* meaning of christmas w/o getting into some big trouble with the different groups. Christianity is exclusive of other beliefs because it is a belief in jesus Christ alone as God's provided salvation. Wouldn't all that come up within a discussion about the *real* meaning of christmas? I just think schools should leave the religious aspects of it alone because it stirs up too much trouble these days.
Going with Santa is "safe" for them IMHO. It is misleading to the true meaning and that part bothers me for kids who get no awareness to religion.

 

[Aidensmom]

They do the same at my son's school. They don't mention God though when talking about Hanukkah, so it makes sense they don't mention Jesus when talking about Christmas. They are learning about traditions associated with the holidays, not the religious meanings, and I think that is the way it should be in a public school. I don't want public school teaching my son about Jesus. I, our church, and others who share our beliefs are perfectly capable of doing that ourselves.

 

[Aidensmom]

double post

 

[Jacklynn]

Oh yes, we Christians are SO persecuted in this country...we're the majority religion, all our businesses, schools and government offices close for our holidays, our churches are granted tax exempt status and are on every corner, we can go to any Church we want without fear, we can and do speak openly about our faith everywhere, no politician dares end a speech without saying God Bless America, our employers can't force us to work on our Sabbath.....wow, it's really rough over here.


Try being a Christian in the Middle East or in Africa for a while.....

Normally I would say oh no sorry,that isn't what I meant sorry if that is what you thought, but Woah, I was taken WAY out of context there... I said NOTHING about being persecuted in my post... I said that often times we are not allowed to talk about Christianity because we are being "too controversial and close minded"

I don't even see how you took my post to say what you implied it said. You made it say what you wanted it to. I do feel very blessed to live in a place where I can actually live out my faith. I just hate that a teacher is not allowed to speak of Jesus (even just the historical Jesus, which it is proved that He did in fact live from various doctument they have found) but can teach all they want about other religions. It's not that I want teachers to be responsible for the spiritual life of children, they should though, be responsible for the education portion, such as the customs and history of religions.

I'm not trying to attack but I don't exactly like it when someone desides to take something I say and turn it around to say something I did not say.

And now I have said what I wanted to say, and now I am done with this thread All I wanted to say was my view and my point got proven that views are tolerated as long as it isn't a view from a Christian perspective (not just a Christian view though, simply if it is a DIFFERENT view, because people don't seem to like hearing various perspectives), because all it does it get twisted around to say whatever someone else wants it to say.

I didn't mean to start anything, and the last thing I wanted to do was for this to stray from its original topics, so back to your regular programming...

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Last year in 1st grade, DD's grade did a "concert". They all dressed in PJs and sang lullabyes from around the world.
One was about angels and it went something like"
All night, all day, angels watching over me, my Lord.

I was surprised(not upset in the least), and told DD's teacher I was surprised that that was allowed, and she said that the music department "gets away" with a lot of stuff like that because it's artistic freedom. LOL

No one was upset and we have a very diverse school. It was great.

or getting away with the song because they list it as the option of "Greensleeves" instead of "What Child is This?" or another Christian carol becasue they "forgot" to list it in the program because "they didn't think they would have it prepared " in time - as happened at ours this year!!

Honestly, stop playing the silly games (in general not any one here) and just deal. I am the first one to say if you present one - you present the others...but just include the Christian and do the right right thing! As I already said - it is about inclusion, not exclusion - no one is trying to keep out the Christian!

 

[LoraJ]

They do the same at my son's school. They don't mention God though when talking about Hanukkah, so it makes sense they don't mention Jesus when talking about Christmas. They are learning about traditions associated with the holidays, not the religious meanings, and I think that is the way it should be in a public school. I don't want public school teaching my son about Jesus. I, our church, and others who share our beliefs are perfectly capable of doing that ourselves.

That's the way it should be.

 

[Free4Life11]

When I was in 6th grade, our class protested this very thing. We had a Kwanza assembly, learned all about Hannukah, but Christmas just paper Santas. We protested and petitioned and the teacher eventually read an illustrated, and sanitized version of the Christmas story. Yes we knew the Christmas story, but it wa the principle of the matter plus we wanted to protest!

 

[frndshpcptn]

To be honest, I had NO IDEA that there was a secular and religious version of Christmas until I joined these boards.

i mean, if Santa's not for kids who celebrate Christmas (Christian, non-Jewish, non-Muslim, etc) then who is he for?

I guess now I see that people who are not any religious denomination celebrate with Santa during this season.

But Jewish, Muslim, Hindu kids, etc, definitely see Santa as an off-limits, religious Christmas symbol. At least this Jewish person did for the first 29 years of her life.

 

[Caitsmama]

See, i guess that's what i don't understand.. i mean, Santa nowadays has NOTHING to do with religion at all. I understand that his background came from religious form, BUT, nowadays, he is so commercialized - there are millions of people who believe in Santa and his reindeer, and the presents without having ANY religious beliefs, YET, i can't understand how to make Hanukkah more commercialized.. it just isn't.
I mean - think of it this way - if someone says they celebrate Christmas/Santa - nowadays you don't automatically assume that they are Christian, BUT, if someone were to say that they celebrate Hanukkah, then, i would associate them with being Jewish.. right?? So, i just don't understand why/how they can make it so that the Hanukkah story isn't religious based.. I say, if you are going to teach something - teach the whole thing - and include all aspects - or don't teach it at all.

I truly understand what they are TRYING to accomplish here.. but i think they are going about it wrong.

 

[Tomader]

The one thing that makes me very happy is that my daughter attends a Catholic School. She learns about Jesus, Mary, God. Christmas for them is about Jesus's birthday. She is only five but I love the fact that she knows that Christmas is not just about Santa and toys.

 

[JennyMominRI]

, BUT, if someone were to say that they celebrate Hanukkah, then, i would associate them with being Jewish.. right?? So, i just don't understand why/how they can make it so that the Hanukkah story isn't religious based.. I say, if you are going to teach something - teach the whole thing - and include all aspects - or don't teach it at all.

.

You have to realize that Judaism is not just a religion..Being Jewish has cultural conotations.. Jews are a nation, not just a religion and many things people associate with Judaism are cultural...Take foods. Stuffed cabbage, Latkes, etc are foods that come from the curture of eastern Europe and are not really Jewish... They come from Jews living in Poland/ Soviet Union.. Other Jews from the middle east have lots of habits/ foods etc that are middle eastern in nature and not essentially Jewish .
In the US, which has been majority Christian for a long time things like Santa are so widespread that they have become cultural symbols and are not always religious at all.

If this country was 95 percent Jewish and a character named Chanukah Harry was associated with Chanukah, after a while he would move beyond religion and become cultural..