Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[Colleen27]

And while I'm at it....for those of you who feel that a vacation in WDW is the best way to 'make family memories'....what happens to those poor families that can't go to WDW??? Are you trying to tell us that there are no other ways of having treasured family memories??? My God....my family never did anything like WDW, but I have terrific memories of going to the beach for a weekend or to an amusement park for the day. WDW is not the only place for family memories.

I don't think anyone said it is the only way, but it is a way that is very special to all of us, or we wouldn't be here posting on an obsessed-Disney-planners forum.

Travel isn't essential, but as parents we do the best we can, not the bare minimum of what is essential. For us, that best includes giving our children opportunities poor children generally don't have to see places beyond our own backyard. We still go away for weekends, not usually to the beach because the same issues that keep us from doing Disney over the summer get in the way of beach weekends, and to Cedar Point for the day, but travel provides a kind of concentrated, focused family time and a diversity of experience that can't really be reproduced at home. It is sad that so many families can't afford it. It is sad that so many families can't afford sports or scouts or other enriching experiences as well, but the fact that they can't has no bearing on the benefits of those things for the children of families who can.

 

[Scurvy]

You know, as important as being a teacher is, and as hard as it is, it doesn't give you sole claim to difficulties, long hours or stress!.

That is 100% true. I think almost all jobs come with difficulties, long hours and stress, at least some of the time. But the teachers in this thread aren't complaining about their jobs because of those things - they care enough about the job to keep doing it despite the difficulties, long hours and stress. They only started pointing all those things out when some posters starting thinking it was reasonable to expect a teacher to spend even more time working to compensate for their family vacations. I think that many people don't realize how much time a teacher spends on their job - to them, it seems reasonable that a teacher could dash off a few emails between classes or stay for a couple of minutes after school to gather up assignments for a student who is on vacation. They think that it's a 7 or 8 hour a day job and that's it. But the reality is very different - I know teachers who literally don't get a chance to go to the bathroom once during the day - that's how tight their schedule is. A minute or two for an email is hard to find without using some of their personal time after school. And given that some of the people expecting those emails are the same ones saying "Family comes first", it seems sort of ironic. They expect the teacher to give up some of her own family time so that their family can have vacation time. Of course most teachers are happy to spend extra time with a child who needs help or who has been sick, but it's harder to have a good attitude about it when the child needs that extra time because of a voluntary vacation.

I don't think a parent should expect a teacher to rearrange their classroom & personal time to accommodate that one student or that one family. But I don't think a teacher or school administrator should assume that they know what a family can - or should - do internally, and that includes vacation time.

I agree with you. I'm sorry you had to deal with a teacher who had a bad attitude about your trip - if your child had good grades and the teacher had no reason to think that the child would fall horribly behind while on vacation then the teacher was completely out of line. But in general, teachers don't want any say in what a family does internally. They care about performance at school. And yes, they care if the family does something that causes the child's grades to suffer, in part because that reflects badly on the teacher.

Most teachers are fine with kids missing school for family trips, provided the child's grades aren't going to suffer. Their hands might be tied by district rules or attendance policies. What many teachers aren't fine with - and what many of us have been responding to so vehemently in this thread - is the sense of entitlement that so many parents feel about a teacher's time. So many parents feel that it's completely reasonable to expect a teacher to spend extra time compensating for the hole in their child's education that was caused by a vacation. Obviously you don't feel that way, and I'm sure the vast majority of your child's teachers appreciate that. Unfortunately many other parents (even on this thread) do feel that way. They think that because their family comes first, they are entitled to expect that a teacher give up some of her own family time. That's not reasonable.

 

[Withacy]

I know on the DIS, the typical poster is a professional and tends to have more flexibility with work scheduling and such, but in the world of blue collar employment, being able to freely choose one's vacation time is the rare exception, not the rule.

Not always the case.

I know lawyers who can't take time because of case obligations.

Personally, I'm a Federal regulator. Cliche's aside, we have a lot of things that have to be handled in a certain number of days from when paperwork is filed. Reviews have to be made. And despite what you may have heard, our agency is stretched very thin. I'm it for 3 States in my particular area.

You think it's hard telling a teacher you want to take your child out of school to go to Disney World? Try telling a governor his/her $100 million project is going to have to wait because you're going to Disney World!

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

There are some jobs obviously that make it difficult. I'd say there are far more people who want to save a buck. Sometimes we don't get to do what we want. Family memories can and should be made everyday. And really a cabin in the mountains promotes togetherness far more than rushing from ride to ride in an amusement park.

With the attitiudes towards teachers and education is it any wonder that the test scores continue to fall, and the US ranking in education continues to fall?

 

[chuckml]

There are some jobs obviously that make it difficult. I'd say there are far more people who want to save a buck. Sometimes we don't get to do what we want. Family memories can and should be made everyday. And really a cabin in the mountains promotes togetherness far more than rushing from ride to ride in an amusement park.

With the attitiudes towards teachers and education is it any wonder that the test scores continue to fall, and the US ranking in education continues to fall?

Thanks for telling me where I should take my family on vacation. My child surely won't feel the togetherness with her parents and grandparents in WDW that she would if we went to the mountains. Either way, she'd still be missing school, so who cares--especially you--where I take her?

 

[KellyNY]

How many threads on the same topic we saw by now?
Same thing, same replies.
Why don't everyone just do what they have to do.
We all adults here, right?
Someone wants to take kids out of school, go ahead, I did it myself, do not plan anymore however, too much of HW to do after vacation. There are many reasons to go during school is on and come on many people cannot do it otherwise. Why to flame on them
Someone go only during school vacations, good for you, but please do not assume those who cannot do it do not value education, it is totally different topic.

 

[Melissa<3Disney]

I would love to know some of these jobs that make it impossible to travel during those 185 non school days.

I'm sorry I thought I was done on this topic...but I would just like to add something and then I'm done! My mother, my sister, and myself are all very high up in our retail positions. Therefore any major holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, Labor Day, Presidents Day, New Years) and Summer (peak season) are considered Black-out days!! I haven't been home for a major holiday since my first year in college and that was 4 years ago! My father owns his own drywall business and and is slammed from Beg. of March (spring break) until about mid-september! That pretty much covers any school vacations now doesn't it?! With that said...we make the sacrifices necessary to keep my brother in school! We are going during Spring Break, my father had to pull an arm and a leg to get this time off. Had he not been able to, we would have had to no choice but to go during school time. So please don't assume that everyone can go when a child is out of school! We were lucky to have been able to have gotten that time off! We haven't been on a family vacation since I was very little!!

I value and respect everything a teacher does for students...god knows they don't get paid enough for what they do!! We try our best not to take my brother out of school especially now that he's older because even though he is a good student and an AP one at that, it would be a nightmare for him when he has to come back and make-up the work! Ultimately it really should be up to the parents and the student about what their child can/cannot handle when he/she comes home. And parents should always follow attendance policy and never expect a teacher to accommodate just that student!(Which the OP never did!) I think we should all just agree to disagree! Remember we are on the DISboards.. so be happy!! And respect each others opinions and professions.

 

[maddmike]

Our daughter is only allowed to make up work or tests when they have excused absences. I don't think a trip WDW would be an excused absence! Anything missed for an unexcused absence will be given a grade of ZERO which could wreck a semester grade. I couldn't risk screwing up her grades with the hopes of academic scholarships on the very near horizon. If you are talking about a kindergarten student I can see it, otherwise I'm not so sure.

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

 

[princessmom29]

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

I just don't understand how a system like this could work. There has to be alimit on excused absences without a valid reason b/c too many kids would just stay home whenever they felt like it. It is wide open for parrents and students to abuse the system. I have NEVER heard of a public school system that doesn't place some kind of limt, and weher the parents get to dictate attendance policy. What state are you in?? Our parents are free to call at and time and say their child will not be there. They do not have to give a reason. The first 4 of these are excused, but after that you need a valid reason to miss school. If we didn't do this I don't think half of our kids would be here on any given day.

 

[Scurvy]

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

Sadly, I think your situation is far from the norm these days. Most school systems have specific criteria for determining what is and is not an excused absence, and a call from the parent is usually only accepted a few times before other documentation starts to be required.

 

[palavra]

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

I work in a private school, and yes, the school administration much approve absences and decide if the student is excused or unexcused. Sorry, just because the child belongs to you, it doesn't mean that you and the child don't have to follow school policies. You, as a parent, cannot decide if your child is excused. Yes, you can call everyday if you want to and say that your child won't be in attendence, but his or her grades will be affected if the absence is unexcused. Almost all school systems have attendence policies related to excused and unexcused absences.

 

[goofy4tink]

How many threads on the same topic we saw by now?
Same thing, same replies.
Why don't everyone just do what they have to do.
We all adults here, right?
Someone wants to take kids out of school, go ahead, I did it myself, do not plan anymore however, too much of HW to do after vacation. There are many reasons to go during school is on and come on many people cannot do it otherwise. Why to flame on them
Someone go only during school vacations, good for you, but please do not assume those who cannot do it do not value education, it is totally different topic.

Well, that's pretty simplistic!!!! I completely agree with you. But, people will be people and they like to be heard.

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

Really? In my school system (already posted this so bear with me for the newcomers!!)...for a full year course, you get 18 unexcused absences. Those days missed with a doctor's note are excused and don't count toward the 18 days. For a half year course, it's 9 absences. If you go over those counts, you start losing course credit...so if my DD is getting an A in English, but has missed 20 days, unexcused, she is going to drop substantially in her final grade.
Those are the rules, we all know them. In fact, we have to sign a form every single year that states we have read the handbook and know what's in there. Those parents that choose to ignore those stated rules should know what the consequences are. Period.

 

[palavra]

My kids hardly miss school except for the week we go on vacation each year. The point is they are my kids and if I call in I don't give a reason. The same with my place of employment. I hardly ever miss work either but I don't need to give an answer because it is my business. Same with the school. If it is something they need to know then I will tell them.

On another note, if all you teachers are so busy and don't have any extra time then why are you on this board posting? Not trying to be a smart a** but just wondering.

Honestly, I think you are trying to be just that. I am on this board because it is my planning period. You seriously think that people in other professions don't check message boards during a few minutes for a break? In 10 minutes, I have another class coming in. I am well prepared for that class. Believe me, even teachers need a few minutes of downtime. Oh, and BTW, I didn't have a lunch break today because I was responsible for lunch detention for the middle school. Your assumptions are ludicrous and insulting to teachers in general.

 

[Glampire31]

I think some schools are just too strict when it comes to some things.... How long are you going to be at Disney for? If it is only for a few days then they shouldn't make a big deal about it....

 

[palavra]

I think some schools are just too strict when it comes to some things.... How long are you going to be at Disney for? If it is only for a few days then they shouldn't make a big deal about it....

I don't think the big deal is about missing school. The point that has become the big deal is what is expected of the teachers and administration because you choose to take your kids out of school. By all means, take your kids to Disney World, but live with the consequences. If the school deems that the trip is unexcused, and your children get zeros on work missed, so be it.

 

[laughinplace199]

OP, I have not read all of the responses (I will when I have more time), but at my kids' school, work will not be given in advance. I never thought to ask for it during the trip, but honestly, I wouldn't want to deal with school work on vacation.

We just write a letter stating that the kids will be out from x date to y date due to a family vacation.

When we return, the kids get all of their missed assignments, as well as their regular homework. It usually only takes a couple of days for them to catch up.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

Therein lies the CRUX of the problem on all of the posts re: taking children out of school. State funding of schools is based on attendance. Due to this the states are starting to mandate extremely tight restrictions on attendance (under the guise that they are fighting deadbeat parents when all they're really trying to do is optimize their funds). Where I live, NO ABSENCE is excused unless there is a doctor's note or a death of an IMMEDIATE family member. NONE. I personally find this policy ridiculous and a total abuse of governmental power over the individual. Sure, there are parents who don't place value on education. But the dragnet of this policy is going to catch all of the good parents who do value education.
My dd will miss 2 days of first grade for our trip to WDW. These days are UNEXCUSED. I was told 1 more day missed = court warning. Another day missed after that and I am summoned to Family Court and fined. I am going to take my chances and go to that court date if need be. We as citizens must stand up for what is clearly a violation of our private and personal parental autonomy over our childrens' lives (as long as there is no abuse). I HIGHLY value education. I supplement my dd's education at home. It is my belief that education occurs at all times, in all situations and cannot be SOLELY learned in a classroom.
IMO standing up for principle is a good lesson for a child.

Now that we're bordering on a political discussion and teetering on the edge of DIS guideline infringement, I agree with PP that this dead dog should be left alone.

 

[goofy4tink]

GraceLuvsWDW...suddenly, my school district is looking great!! I have to agree with you....your district policy is a bit draconion. Yes, state funding is based on attendence, and I get it, I truly do. But, if our school district can figure out a way around it (with those 18/9 unexcused absences allowed) why can't others??!!! It seems to work for us. We have a very good school system...consistenly very highly ranked. Here's hoping that your district sees the light sooner rather than later.

And this is the issue...we all come from different school districts, with different rules and regulations. We tend to start comparing apples to oranges. It may be time to just realize that we all have different parameters to work within. If I get to take my dd out of school for a week each year (I do get to do that, but I don't) but GraceLuvsWDW can't do that, but chooses to go on vacation anyway...fine. Doesn't make me a superior parent and her a bad one!!
Can we stop dumping on teachers??? They're trying to do their jobs. There is not enough money in the world to get me inside a classroom again. I started as the library aide in my dd's elementary school. When the librarian went out early (3 mos early!!!) maternity leave, they asked me to sub for her. No problem I thought. But I also had to cover classrooms while teachers were in meetings, I had to deal with children with attitudes..it was not what a lot of people seem to think it is. Nope, not going down that road again...no way, no how.
Our teachers try to do the best they can for our kids. Yes, there are some that really shouldn't be in the teaching profession, but they are, so need to be dealt with on a professional basis. Teachers have rules and regulations they have to adhere to...if it seems that they are being hard-nosed when it comes to dealing with kids who are going on vacation, it's probably those nasty ole rules being abided by. It is not laziness or bias or that other stuff some have accused them of.

Now, I'm off my soapbox. This thread has really taken a nasty turn. Nothing is getting accomplished here..just more and more nastiness and attitude. Boggles the mind.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I have no idea what kind of school district you have where they decide if the absence is excused or not. When I call in for MY CHILD it is excused. I do not need to say they are sick, they are in WDW or whatever. I simple say my child will not be in attendance today.

This is how our school is. I call in and say my child will not be in school. They say okay. They never ask why. Our school handbook doesn't say anything about the number of days you can miss. It says nothing about excused or unexcused. I don't think people abuse it.

Now once you get to highschool it changes. Then you have limited number of days. You can miss up to 6 per trimester. (I think it is 6 maybe 7) For vacations they only count every other day. It is all excused as long as the parent informs the school ahead of time. Even if you go over the number they still look at your grades. No automatic failing or anything.

My niece will be in WDW during her 10th grade first trimester exams this year. She gets to take them early.

 

[LaughingGravy]

That seems to be the trick now.
What's too many days? 2, 3? 5 days is a full week.

I can see it being dicey for 5 or more days out of school. Depending on aptitude and content for those days, major components can be missed that are built upon in the next classes. Not good, depending on timing and the kid.

We're taking them out for a Friday, Mon. and Tue.

This should still allow for enough days out in the case they are sick later in the year (usually 1-2 days max.), and if they are pretty sick, they would get a docs note anyway, thus excused.

We're not telling in advance it's going to be Disney.
That just seems to increase the likelihood of inviting trouble.

We are telling in advance of the absence as a courtesy and to see how the teachers want to handle any missed work or tests.
As far as we're concerned, any favor is theirs to give, so we'll handle it how the teachers want.

In the unlikely case that there's a ZERO for a missed pop quiz that cannot be made up... eh.
DD is an exceptional student otherwise and even she will understand that this was an unusual event and that sometimes there are consequences.

Only been to Disney once before in '05...won't be going again for a while, and more than more than likely won't be pulled out of school again for it.
She'll be fine.

Based on the open house for the middle schooler last night, some teachers will happily provide some work before, some will allow to make up work afterward (as in out 3 days, you have three days to make up the work and don't worry while you're out).

Some will just let it slide altogether depending on how good of a student the kid normally is with all the rest, though they didn't out rightly say it.
It's obvious they're not allowed to say such, but the flexibility issue was brought up and expressed.

All the teachers post their class content and homework assignments on their blogs, as they happen.

As for me, DW is taking care of the majority of it, including the actual notification.


Oh, and