Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I can't believe people feel this way. A child should be eligible for grades based on knowledge of the material. Attendance should have nothing to do with it. A child who makes up all the work after vacation is fulfilling their school commitment.

I just disagree. I had college courses that I didn't have to attend. When I took psychology 101 I only had to go in, pass the quizzes and take the final. That is what I did. In retrospect, I have to assume I missed a lot even though I knew the testable information. I don't do the same with my college courses. You attend or you fail. There is more to a class. Why would lower education be any different?

 

[chuckml]

ITA. Some children waste so much time in school listening to subjects they have already mastered. The teached must continue until the rest of the class "gets it."

Credit just for showing up is useless if the child doesn't know the material.

 

[goofy4tink]

I can't believe people feel this way. A child should be eligible for grades based on knowledge of the material. Attendance should have nothing to do with it. A child who makes up all the work after vacation is fulfilling their school commitment.

Here's the issue, at least as I see it....if a child is in grades K-5, it probably isn't going to be a huge deal to miss some days during the school year. Each school system is perfectly within it's rights to put forth it's own rules and regulations regarding missed days, and any makeup policy.
When a child gets older, it can become more of an issue. Grades 6-8? Things are tougher to makeup. But again, up to each school district.
At the high school level is when it is toughest....things can change and/or move quickly in a classroom.
If a teacher isn't allowed, by virture of a district wide ruling, to allow makeups for tests after a certain point, so be it. If they aren't allowed to do makeups period, again, so be it. If a child has to accept a zero, then that's the consequence. Parents need to understand what the parameters are before making a decision.
If a child can't afford a zero, for either a test, quiz, or homework assignment, then it may not be in that child's best interest to go on vacation right then. But...that isn't my decision to make. I will be concerned with only my child..what everyone else does, is up to them.

But, that's neither here nor there on a Disney Theme Parks board.

 

[princessmom29]

ITA. Some children waste so much time in school listening to subjects they have already mastered. The teached must continue until the rest of the class "gets it."

Credit just for showing up is useless if the child doesn't know the material.

Absolutely right. We don't give credit just for showing up by the way, and I wish we could have a more descretionary policy. As I said before there is a pretty good list of reasons that are legit, but i think that family trip with prior approval by the principal should be on it. Some kids would be fine missing a week, and some not.

 

[chuckml]

Absolutely right. We don't give credit just for showing up by the way, and I wish we could have a more descretionary policy. As I said before there is a pretty good list of reasons that are legit, but i think that family trip with prior approval by the principal should be on it. Some kids would be fine missing a week, and some not.

That is more than reasonable, and one of the most logical posts on this thread.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I just disagree. I had college courses that I didn't have to attend. When I took psychology 101 I only had to go in, pass the quizzes and take the final. That is what I did. In retrospect, I have to assume I missed a lot even though I knew the testable information. I don't do the same with my college courses. You attend or you fail. There is more to a class. Why would lower education be any different?

I guess we will just have to disagree. However in college the student makes the decision to attend or not. In lower education the student has no choice. So in reality the student is being punished for the parents decision. How is that fair? I still say if the student knows the material they should receive the same grade as any other student. I'm lucky our school agrees with that. If it didn't I would be looking into other options.

BTW I had the same situation in college. I had some classes that attendance wasn't required. I attended on test days only, and passed with A's and B's. I don't feel like I missed anything. I read the books.

 

[Withacy]

The reason Alabama does so poorly has a lot to do with lack of funding. Funding for schools is tied to sales tax, not property tax. We literally have no money for books right now at my school, and I do not have enough for even a class set. You can forget technology funding, ect. Class sizes are out of control. Factor in that plus hte fact that we have one of the lowest average houshold incomes in the nation, and one of the highest poverty rates. A lot of kids come to school never having actually held a book before. They don't know colors and shapes. Some of them don't even know their last name. We have a lot of catching up to do, and no money to do it with. Our system lost 200 teacher units this year, so those of us that are left have to pick up the slack.
I teach in an IB school that performs well above the national average, so there are good schools here. There are also schools that have no facilites, no money, and 45 students minimum in a class. It is a recipe for disaster. I really get tired of people poking fun like we are all rednecks. We graduated 4 children from our school with full rides to ivy league schools last year, and a total of 65 out of the 180 that graduated had full rides to 4 year colleges. There are places in ALabama that do it right, and there are places that are so desperately poor that they just cannot keep up.

Trust me, I know all about Alabama's lack of funds. My agency oversees Medicaid, and I've spent most of the last 10 years working on the children's part of Medicaid. ALL the states in this part of the nation are poor, and have all of the same problems you just mentioned. Most stem from a lack of funding. Few (except Louisiana, until lately) have proved as, er, "creative" in getting federal funds for their budgets.

But money alone is not a predictor of how well students do. DC has the worst schools in the nation according to these comparisons (even worse than Mississippi), and they pay nearly twice as much per student as Alabama.

And for the record, just in this region of the country, Mississippi, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee & Oklahoma spend less per child than Alabama.

I'm all too familiar with the poverty rates all along the Gulf - and if Mobile schools can afford to hire a full time advanced physics teacher - and have enough children taking calculus (and teachers qualified to TEACH high school Calculus) to support that extensive of a program, they must be finding the money somewhere. Too bad it isn't more evenly distributed, but not for the kids receiving the benefit of that funding.

I'd suggest that maybe too many of the children from those other schools were going to Disney World, if 51% weren't elegible for the school lunch program - and if I didn't know how many kids in the state are eligible for Medicaid.

 

[princessmom29]

Trust me, I know all about Alabama's lack of funds. My agency oversees Medicaid, and I've spent most of the last 10 years working on the children's part of Medicaid. ALL the states in this part of the nation are poor, and have all of the same problems you just mentioned. Most stem from a lack of funding. Few (except Louisiana, until lately) have proved as, er, "creative" in getting federal funds for their budgets.

But money alone is not a predictor of how well students do. DC has the worst schools in the nation according to these comparisons (even worse than Mississippi), and they pay nearly twice as much per student as Alabama.

And for the record, just in this region of the country, Mississippi, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee & Oklahoma spend less per child than Alabama.

I'm all too familiar with the poverty rates all along the Gulf - and if Mobile schools can afford to hire a full time advanced physics teacher - and have enough children taking calculus (and teachers qualified to TEACH high school Calculus) to support that extensive of a program, they must be finding the money somewhere. Too bad it isn't more evenly distributed, but not for the kids receiving the benefit of that funding.

I'd suggest that maybe too many of the children from those other schools were going to Disney World, if 51% weren't elegible for the school lunch program - and if I didn't know how many kids in the state are eligible for Medicaid.

I teach Half Physics/half chemistry, and we write a LOT of grants to national foundations to keep our particular school running. Those mony spent per studnet numbers are misleading. The porblem, here at least, is what that money is being spent on has little to do with improving student education. We have too much bureauracy wasting too much money and that is another one of our problems.

 

[Colleen27]

I just don't understand how a system like this could work. There has to be alimit on excused absences without a valid reason b/c too many kids would just stay home whenever they felt like it. It is wide open for parrents and students to abuse the system. I have NEVER heard of a public school system that doesn't place some kind of limt, and weher the parents get to dictate attendance policy. What state are you in?? Our parents are free to call at and time and say their child will not be there. They do not have to give a reason. The first 4 of these are excused, but after that you need a valid reason to miss school. If we didn't do this I don't think half of our kids would be here on any given day.

I'm in Michigan, and we have the same policy the PP described. Any absence I call in to excuse is excused. Unexcused basically equals "skipped school" here. Maybe that is wide open for parents to abuse, but we're an award-winning, high-scoring district that has operated this way for decades. I can't imagine living in a community where half the parents care so little about education that they wouldn't bother sending their kids to school.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I just want to put this out there for all of you facing the extreme attendance policies like where I live. There is a way around the policy. Our attendance officer told me this in a round about way. She said I could un-enroll my dd from school on the day we left and re-enroll her when we return. None of the days would count in that instance.

Here is the wording of our policy straight from our handbook:

A court of law may also impose penalties against both the student and his or her parents if a school-aged student is deliberately not
attending school. An attendance warning letter may be sent to parents of students absent without excuse for three or more days within
a grading period. A complaint against the parent may be filed in court if the student is absent without excuse from school on five or
more days or parts of days within a semester.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I guess we will just have to disagree. However in college the student makes the decision to attend or not. In lower education the student has no choice. So in reality the student is being punished for the parents decision. How is that fair? I still say if the student knows the material they should receive the same grade as any other student. I'm lucky our school agrees with that. If it didn't I would be looking into other options.

BTW I had the same situation in college. I had some classes that attendance wasn't required. I attended on test days only, and passed with A's and B's. I don't feel like I missed anything. I read the books.

I agree the child is penalized for the parent's choices. Sad.

And, I guess that I went to college to learn, rather than to pass, after my freshman year. It is a difference in goals. If the goal is to accumulate knowledge and use the resourses, students need to attend. If the goal is to gain the information from one text, then you are right. Our college has mandatory attendance, and is in the top fifty annually.

You are right, though. Sometimes the bests choice is to agree to disagree!

 

[Colleen27]

Quite appropriate. Why should a child who has been on vacation be eligible for the same grades as children who have fulfilled their school commitment?

Because grades should measure mastry of the material and successful completion of assigned work, not attendance. It is ridiculous that 5 days out of 90+ in a semester would equal failure. That child was still in class for 94% of the term!

 

[Colleen27]

There are some jobs obviously that make it difficult. I'd say there are far more people who want to save a buck. Sometimes we don't get to do what we want. Family memories can and should be made everyday. And really a cabin in the mountains promotes togetherness far more than rushing from ride to ride in an amusement park.

With the attitiudes towards teachers and education is it any wonder that the test scores continue to fall, and the US ranking in education continues to fall?

I don't understand why some people feel they can tell other families how to make memories or promote togetherness.

The problems with the American educational system have nothing to do with involved, caring parents pulling their kids out of school for a vacation. T

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Because grades should measure mastry of the material and successful completion of assigned work, not attendance. It is ridiculous that 5 days out of 90+ in a semester would equal failure. That child was still in class for 94% of the term!

lOL, now don't start up here, too!

If all there is to school is reading a text and filling in worksheets, then why even enroll them? Learning is about conversation, interaction, lectures, demonstrations. Those things enhance the learning. They take the concept and expand upon it.

My kids haven't mastered anything when they can fill out a book report form. Heck, that can be done without any reading. They've mastered it when they can use the information, communicate the information, and best yet even teach the information.

If all a child is doing is parotting a text, there is something wrong with that situation. My opinion, of course.

 

[Nikisha421]

LOL...I TEACH AP WORLD AND HATE IT WHEN PPL DEMAND ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT I AM ALREADY DOING...actually I HAVE A CHILD TOO THAT I NEED TO GET HOME TO...

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I don't understand why some people feel they can tell other families how to make memories or promote togetherness.

The problems with the American educational system have nothing to do with involved, caring parents pulling their kids out of school for a vacation. T

Probably not. But they probably don't help the situation either. Have you worked with any young adults lately? There is the belief that they should be able to do what they want, when they want, and not have it affect them. Most of life isn't like that. Higher Ed isn't, and the work world surely isn't. Just ask all of those that can't go when it is appropriate.

Memories should be every day. If my kids only have memories of WDW then I've messed up the parenting entirely. My cabin comment was actually another topic that got muddled in with the other thought. Shouldn't take meds, make pepparoni rolls, keep an eye on a sick cat and type at the same time.lol!

 

[playswithstars]

I'm student teaching right now and we've had a little boy whose been out for probably a week now for a surgery. We've been laying all of the papers that he has been missing on his desk. We don't have textbooks for them at 1st grade and then somebody came in yesterday to pick it all up. I don't see why see can't tell you what pages they would be missing to work on. We have to have all of our lesson plans turned into the principal a week in advance.

The only reasons I can think of that the teacher(s) would be giving you a hard time is if your child has already missed alot. Or your school's overall attendence is actually a criteria of No Child Left Behind. So maybe your school is really close to the bottom acceptable percentage and they are worried they they won't make AYP this year because of it. It almost happened to one of the schools in my district last year.

 

[Colleen27]

Probably not. But they probably don't help the situation either. Have you worked with any young adults lately? There is the belief that they should be able to do what they want, when they want, and not have it affect them. Most of life isn't like that. Higher Ed isn't, and the work world surely isn't. Just ask all of those that can't go when it is appropriate.

Memories should be every day. If my kids only have memories of WDW then I've messed up the parenting entirely. My cabin comment was actually another topic that got muddled in with the other thought. Shouldn't take meds, make pepparoni rolls, keep an eye on a sick cat and type at the same time.lol!

Yeah, I have, but apparently I'm living in an alternate universe. At least it feels that way sometimes, when it comes to discussions like this one. Most of the young people I know don't hold that belief. Most have at least some ambition and goals, and laziness rather than entitlement seems to be the most common problem. But most of the parents I know think long and hard before pulling the kids out of school for things that aren't strictly necessary, and care too much about their education to let them miss school just because there's no strict policy forcing them not to.

Memories should absolutely be every day, but some memories stand out. I remember the everyday of my childhood fondly, but the really vivid, special memories are of the smell of the caverns at Front Royal, the first time I touched the Vietnam Wall, the split-second of free-fall on the slide at the old River Country waterpark, the roar of Niagara Falls when we went down to the observation deck behind them, etc. I want my kids to have those memories too, in addition to the every day.

 

[Colleen27]

lOL, now don't start up here, too!

If all there is to school is reading a text and filling in worksheets, then why even enroll them? Learning is about conversation, interaction, lectures, demonstrations. Those things enhance the learning. They take the concept and expand upon it.

My kids haven't mastered anything when they can fill out a book report form. Heck, that can be done without any reading. They've mastered it when they can use the information, communicate the information, and best yet even teach the information.

If all a child is doing is parotting a text, there is something wrong with that situation. My opinion, of course.

Oh, I absolutely agree with all of that, but I don't think it supports a policy of automatic failure for missing 5.5% of the course period, which is what 5 days works out to based on a typical 90 day semester. If a student demonstrates mastery of the material on tests and other assessments and is an active participant in 94% of class periods, there's no reason he should fail. Failure should be a consequence of not learning the material, not a punishment handed down to a successful student who missed a week of class.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Man, now I want to go to that stupid waterpark!

I don't think all young adults are like that. I'd say 20% are overachievers, 30% are good eggs, that are kind, helpful hard workers, and 50% are dependent upon their parents (calling in to tell me they are too sick to come to class or work in the ofc.), lazy, and unfortunately cheating is rampant even or maybe especially amidst this group. That need to get into a good school wasn't about learning and working hard, but finding anyway to get by/in. I adore that middle 30%, though. I hope they are the ones that make a difference in this world.

Thank you for sharing about your altenate universe. It sounds like a friendly place!