sure wish parents would watch their kids

[DCLMP]

Let’s not forget eggs, butter and low-fat foods that are good for you, then bad.nope good again!

...and all the medications that have been recalled. Oh yeah and eggs....if only people still thought they were bad for them maybe I could find some.

 

[LSUmiss]

In the 50's, the experts used to pitch cigarette brands. In the 60's, they prescribed thalidomide to pregnant women. Just recently the experts did an "oops" when they discovered SSRI's might have nothing to do with serotonin levels like all the experts have long thought. So the experts are in agreement again, you say. It's always an appeal to authority- these people have a fancy degree, they are right, until they aren't in a few decades. They hypothesize, or theorize at best. Who was right, Jung or Freud? Neither? Both? I'm not even a spanker, but I reserve the right to do it if I ever feel the need, experts be damned.

But most of the time they are right like many of the advances in modern medicine & car seats & other auto safety on & on. For instance, my son was born with a condition that is now corrected by a pretty routine surgery but would have been fatal for him just 50 years ago.

 

[LSUmiss]

In the 50's, the experts used to pitch cigarette brands. In the 60's, they prescribed thalidomide to pregnant women. Just recently the experts did an "oops" when they discovered SSRI's might have nothing to do with serotonin levels like all the experts have long thought. So the experts are in agreement again, you say. It's always an appeal to authority- these people have a fancy degree, they are right, until they aren't in a few decades. They hypothesize, or theorize at best. Who was right, Jung or Freud? Neither? Both? I'm not even a spanker, but I reserve the right to do it if I ever feel the need, experts be damned.

Knock yourself out. But personally I like to err on the side of caution if something might be harmful to my child.

 

[lowlight]

Knock yourself out. But personally I like to err on the side of caution if something might be harmful to my child.

I think you missed the irony that pregnant mothers were told thalidomide was perfectly safe by the experts and gave birth to children with horrible defects. Turns out they didn't have any pregnant women in the test group. That sounds so familiar.

 

[lowlight]

Let’s not forget eggs, butter and low-fat foods that are good for you, then bad.nope good again!

Yup, the sugar industry bribed scientists (experts) to make fat look like the enemy, something we've eaten since the dawn of time as a primary source of energy, and make sugar look good, which is a refined fake product we've likely never eaten until relatively recently on our timeline. Those experts, always right until they aren't.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It’s funny how this thread, here in 2023, has evolved from similar threads of a decade or so ago, when many posters seemed to agree that they reserved a smack on their child’s butt for something serious like attempting to run into the street. They wanted it to make an impact and have shock value so the child wouldn’t do it again.

One of the worst things I ever saw was when I worked in a pediatric ER (long before I had kids) and a two yr old child was brought in, hit by a car. Mom was putting her baby in the car seat when the other child dashed out. That child did not make it. I also did CPR on a drowned three yr old and then had to give a deposition about it in a legal setting. That child made it, but life was never the same - for any of them in the family. Once, a dad ran in with a child’s leg wrapped in a bloody towel and a foot in a jar - child ran near the lawnmower. Etc. Terrifying, sad stories, yes. But these are also realities. Personally I would not fault a parent for disciplining their child for trying to run into the street, going near a pool unsupervised, walking up to a strange dog’s face, or any number of potentially dangerous situations for said child. YMMV. And yes, I don’t remember exactly, but chances are pretty good that mine got disciplined for serious infractions like that, that could cause them harm. But 99.9999999% of the time, we talked things out pretty good, as I assume most parents here do, as well.

Not too long ago I was in the car with my kids, now grown, and I can’t remember what started the conversation but I apologized to them, sort of generally, for not being a perfect mom. They laughed, in confusion, I think, and reassured me I had nothing to apologize for. They get it. I look forward to them being parents some day if that’s the path they choose.

I also had some conversations with my own mother over the years about some stuff that had happened and I came to realize through these conversations that my mother was a victim herself, not just during her childhood but during her marriage. I forgave both her and my father for anything that transpired, and as the years have gone by I realize more and more that they did the best they could with what they themselves had to work with (ie their own circumstances), and with what they knew at the time, etc. Forgiveness is for the forgiver (not the forgivee), so they can let go of stuff. It worked for me. Bottom line, I know my parents loved me, and that is really the thing most important to me.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think you missed the irony that pregnant mothers were told thalidomide was perfectly safe by the experts and gave birth to children with horrible defects. Turns out they didn't have any pregnant women in the test group. That sounds so familiar.

I think drug studies are different b/c of the $$$ that stands to be made if a medication is deemed “safe”.

 

[ttintagel]

Amazed at how many people think horseplay in a moving vehicle is no big deal. The kids could have gotten seriously hurt or hurt other passengers. And even if there were no other passengers on that particular trip besides OP, the parents, and the children - if the children learn that roughhousing on the bus is perfectly OK, they’re going to do it again when there ARE other people close by. Every moment you spend with your kids is a potential teaching moment. Of course children don’t have the same good judgment as an adult; that’s why the adults in their lives need to help them out until they develop one.

I wish I had a dime for every time I’ve been at WDW and had my heart in my throat seeing some little kid put themselves or someone else in harm’s way while their parents stood obliviously by, it’d go quite a way toward funding my next trip.

 

[Lilsia]

Amazed at how many people think horseplay in a moving vehicle is no big deal. The kids could have gotten seriously hurt or hurt other passengers. And even if there were no other passengers on that particular trip besides OP, the parents, and the children - if the children learn that roughhousing on the bus is perfectly OK, they’re going to do it again when there ARE other people close by. Every moment you spend with your kids is a potential teaching moment. Of course children don’t have the same good judgment as an adult; that’s why the adults in their lives need to help them out until they develop one.

I wish I had a dime for every time I’ve been at WDW and had my heart in my throat seeing some little kid put themselves or someone else in harm’s way while their parents stood obliviously by, it’d go quite a way toward funding my next trip.

I literally caught a one year old from falling off of the chair at Casey's many years ago. The child was being a typical 1 year and could not sit still. The mom was oblivious looking at her phone and we were at the next table. I could see what was coming from a mile away and so I moved my chair closer to the child and said to my husband that the child is going to fall and crack their head open. Well it happened, the child started to fall and I was fast enough to catch her. I just do not understand how any adult can lack the common sense to not be able to predict that these kind of things would happen. How? How are some people so completely clueless at life?

 

[dvcgirl67]

In the 50's, the experts used to pitch cigarette brands. In the 60's, they prescribed thalidomide to pregnant women. Just recently the experts did an "oops" when they discovered SSRI's might have nothing to do with serotonin levels like all the experts have long thought. So the experts are in agreement again, you say. It's always an appeal to authority- these people have a fancy degree, they are right, until they aren't in a few decades. They hypothesize, or theorize at best. Who was right, Jung or Freud? Neither? Both? I'm not even a spanker, but I reserve the right to do it if I ever feel the need, experts be damned.

You lost me at “fancy degree”. It’s not an appeal to authority….or the deep state as it’s known these days. It’s the shunning of expertise which is really popular these days across a number of scientific disciplines. And yes, the genesis of all scientific knowledge begins with theories that are then proven or disproven over time. And the data on physical discipline of children is clear… and in agreement….it can cause harmful long term consequences…and has fallen out of favor in our society.

 

[piccolopat]

No...the massive majority of experts on child psychology (many of whom I'm sure have children) find that spanking children has long-lasting effects on their emotional and cognitive development. There are countless studies on this topic. Countless books written about it. Parenting classes available for alternative ways to discipline children. If you smack/spank/hit your kid....you're likely doing so because it was done to you, and you feel that you've turned out just fine. This why my parents smacked/hit me as a kid...because their parents did it to them, and their parents did it to them...etc. But we don't know if we would have possibly turned out better had we not been spanked/smacked/hit....choose whatever words make you comfortable. And physically disciplining children has most definitely grown out of favor over time.

At some point...we can evolve and at least try to find a better way. That's all many of us are saying....that's it. I don't look back fondly on being smacked/spanked/hit as a young child....I think it's pretty messed up when I really think about it. My sisters, who have children, felt the same way....as did their spouses, because they did not use physical discipline in raising their children/teens.

That's all I'm saying. If spanking/smacking/hitting is something you find as an effective parenting tool....I guess, continue on with it. I do think that there may be consequences in future relationships between the parents of today vs. say....those of us who are older and were physically disciplined many years back. We can look back on the 60's-early 80's as a "different time". We've brought up the seat belt example. We can also bring up the fact that women were encouraged to bottle feed infants when today doctors at least encourage new moms to try to breast feed if possible. Heck, back in the 60s doctors didn't even discourage smoking during pregnancy....my mother smoked through all three of hers. Can you imagine seeing a visibly pregnant woman smoking these days? That's how some of the kids today will look back on being spanked years down the road, when, if parents are being really honest with themselves...it's not socially accepted any longer.

And now we have "experts" saying our preteen kids can have gender changing surgery or hormonal treatments with or without a parent's consent at the same time they are saying these kids are too immature to use social media. A kid can't get their ears pieced without a parent's ok or a tattoo at all at that age but they can have their breasts removed if they decide they don't like the gender they were born. Sad commentary on the state of medical expertise. Sad commentary on our government which allows that even while deeming these kids too immature to drink or smoke cigarettes or to enter into a contract.

 

[lowlight]

You lost me at “fancy degree”. It’s not an appeal to authority….or the deep state as it’s known these days. It’s the shunning of expertise which is really popular these days across a number of scientific disciplines. And yes, the genesis of all scientific knowledge begins with theories that are then proven or disproven over time. And the data on physical discipline of children is clear… and in agreement….it can cause harmful long term consequences…and has fallen out of favor in our society.

Ah, the science is settled. Well then, have a good day.

 

[dvcgirl67]

And now we have "experts" saying our preteen kids can have gender changing surgery or hormonal treatments with or without a parent's consent at the same time they are saying these kids are too immature to use social media. A kid can't get their ears pieced without a parent's ok or a tattoo at all at that age but they can have their breasts removed if they decide they don't like the gender they were born. Sad commentary on the state of medical expertise. Sad commentary on our government which allows that even while deeming these kids too immature to drink or smoke cigarettes or to enter into a contract.

You're speaking about experts who, in this case, are also in the minority. The majority of experts on this topic....and an international panel put out a paper on this topic last year, believe that teens should "must undergo mental health assessments and must have questioned their gender identity for “several years” before receiving drugs or surgeries".

That's the consensus. Just because local leaders are rushing forward with legislation to ban such therapies/surgeries on teens....doesn't mean that it's happening. I know it's difficult to discern that these days with our news feed....you'd think there are clinics churning out teens with new genders by the hour.

And the reason there is such high emotions around this debate, is because teens who struggle with gender issues are at a very high risk of suicide. So, the experts on the fringe believe that they may be saving the life of the teen. I'm not going to get into this....it's an entirely different debate.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Ah, the science is settled. Well then, have a good day.

It's certainly been settled on this topic for some time. But parents can do what they please, certainly behind closed doors.

 

[Smugpugmug]

And now we have "experts" saying our preteen kids can have gender changing surgery or hormonal treatments with or without a parent's consent at the same time they are saying these kids are too immature to use social media. A kid can't get their ears pieced without a parent's ok or a tattoo at all at that age but they can have their breasts removed if they decide they don't like the gender they were born. Sad commentary on the state of medical expertise. Sad commentary on our government which allows that even while deeming these kids too immature to drink or smoke cigarettes or to enter into a contract.

This definitely isn't where I imagined the conversation to go. There was already a thread about this specific topic a month or so ago that was full of bad faith arguments. Not sure if it's a good idea to bring that up again.

 

[Orion Nebula]

But parents can do what they please, certainly behind closed doors.

That is a pretty horrifying mindset.

 

[Orion Nebula]

This definitely isn't where I imagined the conversation to go. There was already a thread about this specific topic a month or so ago that was full of bad faith arguments. Not sure if it's a good idea to bring that up again.

I knew instantly via the title where this was going to go. It has always been interesting on how caustic this forum gets due to being full of Disney fanatics. We all hold something special in common as well, but yet like all forums things go into a downward spiral quickly. We should be sticking to pixie dust and magic....

And yes I am guilty of debating myself. It's so hard to resist lol.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I knew instantly via the title where this was going to go. It has always been interesting on how caustic this forum gets due to being full of Disney fanatics. We all hold something special in common as well, but yet like all forums things go into a downward spiral quickly. We should be sticking to pixie dust and magic....

And yes I am guilty of debating myself. It's so hard to resist lol.

I don't disagree. Some of these threads get kind of insane. That specific thread though got really intense with name calling and the arguments some people were making were.............something else. I think it's best not to go down that route.

 

[lowlight]

I knew instantly via the title where this was going to go. It has always been interesting on how caustic this forum gets due to being full of Disney fanatics. We all hold something special in common as well, but yet like all forums things go into a downward spiral quickly. We should be sticking to pixie dust and magic....

And yes I am guilty of debating myself. It's so hard to resist lol.

I like to have my ideas challenged and to challenge other ideas. Isn’t that part of growing and learning?

 

[dvcgirl67]

That is a pretty horrifying mindset.

It's the truth though. And listen....I'm not saying anyone who has every swatted or spanked...grabbed their kid in frustration is an abusive person. I'm saying that using physical discipline as a tool....that is predetermined is harmful.

I can only speak as someone who was spanked and hit with a wooden spoon as a younger child....not a lot, but I remember it. They are some of my earliest childhood memories. I have good memories too. But the times I remember being hit were not "regimented" or a controlled measure of discipline. It was when my young parents were exasperated and angry...and looking back on those experiences isn't a fond memory at this point in my life. It's not a "they did the best they could". Yes, there *were* doing to me what was done to them, but it doesn't mean that they were correct. They were young uninformed parents....and while my father has passed, I know my mother regrets that she did that as an almost 80 year old grandmother.

I can still love my mother and think that overall she did do the best she could...but in that department, she could have done better. Those experiences were unnecessary. Two things can be possible at the same time.