"We'll Get There When We Get There!" Mr Incr3dible's journal (comments definitely welcome)

Mr_Incr3dible

50 miles at 55!
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Yes, another training blog and place for pithy comments.

Why Mr Incredible? (1) I loved those movies, especially the first one with the combination of James Bond and superheros.
(2) I can really relate to a number of scenes with Bob Parr, like the building column in his cube (I really had that at work), frustrations at work, and "Math is math!"
(3) I had a fair resemblance to the retired Bob Parr before he got back in shape. Still kinda do, but I've dropped about 17-19 pounds over the last couple of years.

Sometime about 20 years ago, when my first son was young, we used to go to Disney once or twice a year, and I remember thinking how cool it would be to run there, and saying to the (now ex) wife, "It would be cool to run here". ;-)
And I'm not sure how (other than local events, I was not dialed into races or running), but I found out about the Disney races and the old Disney Running website. FWIW, I do still have a DR moisture wicking hat, a running tank, and a t shirt.

I trained and nervously headed to WDW in 2009 for my first ever half marathon, full of dread of finishing and balloon ladies. I did finish and that medal is in a shadow box with photos. Why a shadow box? Because at the time, I never imagined doing another one, much less a full or the challenges. So naturally I wound up doing the Goofy just two years later, and started down the slippery slope of a running addiction.

So here I am 15 years later, and under my belt is several halfs, a Goofy, a Dopey, a MCM, and a Goofy pending in Jan 2024.
 
I posted some comments of inspiration yesterday, but as I did so, I kept thinking I had seen some of those words before. Yup I had written up a list of lessons-learned a few years ago.
With a few minor updates, here they are. Hopefully they will be useful to someone.

Andrew’s Marginal Running Information

This is a collection of running tidbits that I’ve learned over a few decades of running. Sorry for some of the thoughts being somewhat disjointed.
You mileage may vary (literally).

If you were to look at me, your first thought would not be “runner”, but our genes are what they are and my formerly thin cross-country frame filled out in my early 20s. Later, I put on more weight that has taken years to take back off, and running has been part of that.

  1. I started out training for my first half-marathon by running a quarter mile and then having to take a walk break and built up distances from there. No lie, it wasn’t fun at first, but after a few weeks my body was getting used to the running and things got better.
  2. When I’ve had a long layoff without running, the first couple of weeks of training are miserable, and I have to push through it. After that, the endorphins start doing their thing and I’ll get to where I become antsy if I go more than a day or two without running.
  3. For my first WDW half-marathon, I fretted about not being able to keep a pace and stay ahead of the sweepers.
    1. The sweeper clock doesn’t start until the last runner starts
    2. A brisk walking pace will keep you ahead of the sweepers
    3. A friend of mine would walk the marathons and had enviable times. He would walk briskly, stride it out, and stopped for nothing and would finish a half in under 2.5 hours.
  4. I’m a proponent of the Galloway method, but modified for my own use.
  5. As it turns out, for most races, there are helpful people handing out water every mile or 1.5 miles, so my walk breaks are to walk through the water station. This also allows me to drink that water without spilling most of it.
  6. The whole key to the walking part is to only do 50 or 60 steps and resume running before your body starts to drop out of run mode. Much more and your body will want to go into walk mode.
  7. Based on #5, I have never carried water with me for a race. I let people hand it to me.
  8. I will carry some energy goo for a marathon, and was pleasantly surprised that it was being handed out during the Disney marathon. I do like the energy beans and will carry some of them with me. (Note: since I first wrote this, I’ve done a lot more studying on fuel. I recommend Dopey_badgers numerous, well-researched articles on this subject and actively planning your in-race fueling for half and full marathons).
  9. To keep some moisture in my mouth, I prefer hard candy or Mentos. I just tuck the candy into a cheek and let it melt and typically get 3+ miles from each piece. Or some gum.
  10. If you start getting shin splints, stop running and take a 2 week break. It’ll drive you nuts to not run that long, but it’ll be worth it in the long run. During your break, go buy new running shoes. When I had shin splints is when I bought my first pair of $100+ pair of running shoes. It turned out to be so totally worth it that I bought a second pair. My running shoes are for running only and I retire them when they start getting too worn. I’ve never had shin splints again.
  11. I also try to avoid running on concrete; I’ll even run on the grass next to a sidewalk if it is smooth and I won’t turn an ankle. My preference is a local greenway with long boardwalks. Even asphalt is better than concrete.
  12. For a 5K or 10K, I don’t bother with any tunes; besides the races being over quickly, there is usually enough music and celebration going on to provide entertainment. I now have Aftershokz and *love* them for being able to hear tunes and maintain situational awareness of hearing everything around me.
  13. Due to issues with chafing on my thighs, I wear short running tights as a physical barrier. Some people have success with anti-chafe sticks, but a physical barrier is what works best for me.
  14. Ditto for chafing in the shoe. What works for me is liberal use of moleskin between toes, plus wraps of surgical tape. I also use Injinji socks to help isolate my toes. There will still be chafing over the course of a marathon, but delaying the onset of chafing as long as possible is the key.
  15. For a marathon, take a couple of Tylenol when the pain kicks in. Motrin is a blood thinner, so use Tylenol instead.
  16. Make sure that you can un-knot your shorts before you get to a port-a-potty. Nothing worse than losing time over a stuck drawstring. (Don’t ask me how I know this….)
  17. Unless you want to set a personal record at Disney, take the time for some photos with the characters. When I ran the marathon, I saw Disney characters that I had never seen before in many visits to the parks. Just pick your opportunities and don’t get caught in a long line.
  18. My tendency was to stay on one side of the road or the other during a race. What I learned is that the course is measured apex to apex of the curves, so straighten out the curves and it will save yourself some steps over the course of the race. (Appx .26 miles in a marathon)
  19. I was around mile 20 of my first marathon when my left arm went numb. My immediate thought was that I was having a heart-attack, but it was actually just from keeping my fists clenched for so long. The lesson learned is to periodically shake out my arms and hands, and to touch my thumb to my fingers and not make fists while running.
  20. Take some $20 bills with you for massages after the race. For me, one massage of the legs after the half, and two massages, one for the legs and one for the shoulders after the marathon. After the marathon, my shoulders hurt and they told me it was due to holding up my shoulders and arms for so long. Get the massages; it is worth every penny. (Note: I’m not sure there is still a massage tent).
  21. When I ran the Goofy, I went into the parks after the half-marathon.
  22. When I ran the Dopey, I went into the parks after all the races, but I was definitely a slow moving object on Sunday afternoon. But after the shorter races, the key was to get only in short lines and not spend very long standing still, and to do only so much park and then back to the hotel.
  23. The most amazing thing is the day after the marathon is being in the parks or even a resort wearing your medal and getting applauded by Disney cast members.
Other tidbits:
  • Buy some cheap sweatshirts at Walmart for the beginning of the race when it’s cold. You’ll toss them aside after you warm up and they get collected for charity. I also recommend a cheap towel and pillow so that you can lay down in the corral while waiting for things to start.
  • Moisture-wicking shirts cause some nasty chafing on men in half and full marathons. As cool as it can be at Disney in some years, a thin cotton shirt will prevent chafing. The performance shirt can wick away the moisture from the cotton shirt. (Note: not a good solution when it’s warmer, so use bandaids and/or nip guards).
  • There is nothing like the monorail whooshing by and a full moon overhead at the beginning of a race.
  • There can be a huge traffic jam leading to the staging area. Better to be dropped at the main road and use the short walk as your warmup if necessary.
  • I prefer to stay on property and use Disney transportation. Plenty of info in theforums on this subject.
  • Disney is a great place to set a PR in that it is flat. It is a lousy place to set a PR in that you’ve spent way more than you would for most races, and you’ll miss out on all the photo ops. You may want to set your PR somewhere cheaper and closer to home.
  • Get a plastic grocery store bad and fold it up small and tuck into your running belt. It’ll be useful after the finish line for bottles of water, food, towels, etc.
  • You’ll do better than you think you will.
 
Temps went up into the low 60's and the rain ended today, so I decided to forego lunch and head to the greenway for a run while the getting was good.

Per the Garmin, 6.25 miles in 1:02:53 for a 10:04 pace. I was feeling pretty good, so the final full mile was 9:55 (!), but I am lung limited, so I don't think that pace is sustainable for too long.
Regardless, I'm running stronger and faster than I have for a long time and looking forward to the 2024 Goofy.

Leading up to the MCM, I was running in nothing but Hokas, but my feet are feeling better, so I decided to try one of my pairs of Brooks today, and was able to do so with no issues. Progress
 


Had late calls, so managed to sneak in a run before lunch today.
5 miles at a 10:13 avg pace on the neighborhood hills course.

Since it is raining every weekend, I haven’t done any long runs in weeks, so no real tapering. In lieu of that, I’ll just keep with the 4 to 6 mile runs until the forced break for the New Year.
 
I have mentioned my tongue-in-cheek HARM running method with a ton of shorter runs. And of late others have been talking about their taper. But with rain every weekend for the last month, all I've done are my 4 to 6 mile runs during the week, so nothing to taper.
Thus I've accidentally fallen back into my HARM training, without meaning to, which leads me to the (possibly dumb / obvious) question: am I simply training myself for <=10K runs?
 


all I've done are my 4 to 6 mile runs during the week, so nothing to taper.
Thus I've accidentally fallen back into my HARM training, without meaning to, which leads me to the (possibly dumb / obvious) question: am I simply training myself for <=10K runs?

If the question is, "If I only do 10k distance training runs, will I be able to finish a HM?", then the answer is yes. It doesn't necessarily mean you will do the HM as well as you could otherwise with the longer distance training runs being completed as well. But 10k distance training runs and doing a few of them a week will be enough to likely finish the HM.
 
If the question is, "If I only do 10k distance training runs, will I be able to finish a HM?", then the answer is yes. It doesn't necessarily mean you will do the HM as well as you could otherwise with the longer distance training runs being completed as well. But 10k distance training runs and doing a few of them a week will be enough to likely finish the HM.
Oh, I know I'll finish. No question of that unless I sustain some injury.
But it sounds like I need to step up the longer runs for the longer races. (I know, Capt Obvious time).
Dang. As I tell my kids, I can't half-a$$ it...
 
Others have been posting their comments on tapering as we lead up to the MW. I haven't managed any long runs in the last 7 weeks, so instead of tapering, my running has been more along the lines of maintenance runs.
Except.... the runs have continued to get faster and stronger.
The weather warmed up today and I headed out for an afternoon run that was going well enough that I did a full 5 miles on my neighborhood route with its hills. And finished with a 9:49 avg pace!
Slow for some, but flying for your's truly. In fact, mile 4 was a 9:27 pace.

So I still can't help but think about trying for a PR for the half, or keep it up and try to find one locally in the coming months.
 
Weather was warm yesterday and everyone else went out to do some last minute shopping, so I headed for the greenway to put in some Christmas Eve miles. What I thought might be a 5 or 6 mile run turned into 8 miles, much to my surprise.
Likewise, I wasn't trying to push it, but the miles rolled by and when I finished, I was just under a 10min/mile. Wow.

So I'm still not the speedster that I'd like to be, but my pace has dropped by over a minute/mile over the past couple of years, which is something I did not expect. My weight has also dropped by ~15 pounds, and I feel better physically than I have in years.

Progress! and it should be a good MW for me.
 
I put my MW race report in the 2024 MW thread.

Following up on my prior post, it was indeed a good weekend. I decided not to push it for the 7 miles of "half" and still had a pace right at 11 min/mile. Not too bad for moi. Did I worry about making up the 6 miles? No. I went to HS and Epcot and put in another 13+ miles. Rise of the Resistance in HS can be so disconcerting with the wait times. I walked into HS in the rain, and it picked up to downpour status as I walked to RotR, where I walked nearly all the way to the front of the line. It took maybe 5 or ten minutes for us to be on the ride. I came out and there was a line coming from out of the "cave" and winding back through the end of the queue. Go figure.

The marathon went well, other than a very unexpected sharp pain in my right pinkie toe coming out of Blizzard Beach parking lot. I still have no idea what caused it, but I stopped, pulled my shoe, and seeing no blood or bone, laced back up and kept going. I was feeling sprightly enough at the end to do the last 200 yards in a run. (Yes, where the photographers are....) After the race, I headed back to the room, took a long hot shower, and then a nap. Sometime around 4, I headed to MK for medal photos and to try to get on Tron. I was moving slower than usual, but still moving pretty well for having done about 34 miles in the prior 24 hours.

I drove home on Monday and gave myself another couple of days off as more storms came through. And with sunshine and temps in the low 50s on Thursday, I headed out for a nice, easy 2.5 mile run.
Later, I was reflecting on how much of a non-event the Goofy was in terms of post-race walking and recovery this past week. Nice to see training and conditioning paying off.

So, after telling the fam that I don't know about next year, <sigh> I'm now thinking about the 20th anniversary of the Goofy. And looking for a local half marathon to try for a POT...
 
Temps were down in the teens overnight and made it up to the mid to high 40's this afternoon, which made this the best outdoor running day this week. As noted elsewhere, my lungs don't do well in cold air, but I hit the inhaler then hit the streets. Surprisingly good run of 4.1 miles with a 10:11 pace on my neighborhood hill course. Then it was hit the floor and do the PT's stretches to keep the back/leg pain at bay. I really don't want to go through that again. With this cold wave, today is only the second run since MW, but nice to see the pace hasn't dropped off much.
In other news, trying to get my younger son to come do MW with next January. I'd like to do the Goofy again, and see if I can get him to do the half with me and then he can spectate the full. I also bought him a Garmin running watch for his upcoming birthday.
 
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Mr Incr3dible’s Guide to the Dopey Challenge​

Before MW:
  • Train- Put in the miles and get your body used to it. Even just 3 or 4 miles 3 or 4 days in a row (weekly) will help get you used to the back-to-back races.
  • If you are a middle or back of the pack type, feel free to try my HARM training method. It does not have very long weekend runs, but a lot of 4-5 mile runs to build up endurance. This is also an interval running method in which the run breaks (during races) are a combination of walking through the water stops and when standing in line for character photos.
  • If you are or want to be a faster runner and want a much better training plan, it is hard to beat an @dopey_badger plan or one of the other popular plans from Galloway, Higdon, etc.
  • Also, it doesn’t hurt to find some other races throughout the year, (1) as interim training goals, and (2) as yardsticks for measuring training progress.
  • Have all of your clothes, shoes, and fuel laid out, double checked, and then packed. My preference for the Goofy or Dopey is two pairs of running shoes, plus a set for walking around the resorts and parks.
  • There is a lot of idle time in the corrals prior to race start, like 60-90 minutes. What has worked for me is to buy el cheapo towels from Walmart and use them as a mat to sit or lay on while waiting. What I really prefer is to be able to sit and lean back on the fencing and rest my back instead of standing the entire time.
  • I also found disposable Tyvek jackets on Amazon to wear pre-race and even during the first mile or so. They are good as wind breakers, and also work well as a rain jacket if so needed (as I recently found out during the MW downpours).
  • Buy a Disney photopass ahead of time. You can hand your phone to cast members for pictures, but a photopass is unlimited photos and worth it if photo ops and memories are why you are there. And super convenient if you have a magic band. BTW, you do have to enter the code into Photopass from your bib for each race.
  • Plan your fueling for the half and the full. Disney will hand out some fuel during the races, but you may or may not like what they are handing out or when. After doing a lot of reading about proper fueling (thank you @dopey_badger !), my past few races have gone much better due to better pre-race carb loading and race fueling approximately every 4 miles.
Marathon Weekend

Wednesday or before:
  • Leave plenty of travel time to get there before the Expo closes. It will make life much less stressful (I had car trouble on the drive down and barely made the Expo for my Dopey; it’s a bit of a story, and has been posted elsewhere...)
  • You will be picking up 2 bibs for the Dopey, one for the 5K and 10K, one for the half and full. Experience shows that 2 races are about all that a bib is good for, so rD gets this one right.
  • Lay out at least your 5K clothes, if not all 4 days of running gear. Make sure it’s all laid out for the next morning so that you aren’t having to think much at 2:30 am when you get up. Ditto for any fuel and anything else you need for the race.
  • Traveling solo, my room looked like a textile disaster area with all my running gear laid out.
  • Try to get to sleep a little earlier. I have a hard time going to sleep earlier than around midnight, so for me, MW is a study in being short on sleep and taking naps. YMMV
5K:
  • The 5k is un-timed except for the Dopey runners.
  • If you are trying to place in the Dopey challenge, then you are probably already in corral A or B and can run the 5K
  • For the rest of us…. the 5K is essentially a nice walk/jog around Epcot. Being back in corral C or D, it was hard to go faster than a walk for the first ¼ mile, and hard to go very fast even after that. Enjoy seeing Epcot all lit up at night and take plenty of photos. There will be character photo stations, but some of them were 30+ minutes and not worth it for me, so I kept moving.
  • Depending on how long you linger for photos, the 5K is over quickly, so you can either head back to the room for a nap, or head to a park for rope drop.
  • For me, I went to the parks for 4-5 hours before heading back to the resort. If you are wearing a race watch, keep an eye on the step count, as you don’t want to overdo it. Don’t ask me how I know this…..
10K:
  • A lot like the 5K, except that it is timed for everyone.
  • It’s tempting to run the 10K at a normal pace, but remember the weekend is a marathon+, not a sprint. Take it easy.
  • My 10K time would have been completely embarrassing in any other setting, but I stopped for photos ops and jogged. It is easy to add 30-45 minutes to your time due to photo ops; plus, see second bullet.
  • For me, I again went to the parks for 4-5 hours before heading back to the resort. I probably over did it. Again.
Half:
Now it is starting to get real.
  • Rinse and repeat from the 10K: run at an easy pace and use the photo ops as rest breaks and walk through the water stops. Walking the water stops also helps with not wearing the water or choking on it.
  • For a lot of us, it is still dark going into the Magic Kingdom. Slow down and take the time to take it all in: the lights, the music, all of it. Not to sound cliché, but it really is magical.
  • And then you head down Main Street USA, which becomes a rather narrow passage with all the spectators there lining the street. It’s like no other race I’ve done in terms of the press of spectators narrowing the route. It is so cool.
  • You will get to run through the castle from back to front. Disney now has a number of photographers staged in front of the castle. IMHO, it is totally worth it to go get in one of the lines (they move quickly) for a picture in front of the castle.
  • After exiting the MK, things get a little more quiet. There will be spectators out in front of the Grand Floridian and Polynesian and then you head past the golf courses. There is a fair amount of cool air flowing off the golf courses, so depending on the weather, you may want to take that into account for when you discard layers.
  • Maintain the easy pace and cruise back to Epcot. Three down, one to go.
  • Yes, I went to the parks again, but made very sure to (1) not overdo it, and (2) keep moving and don’t stand in any long lines. Back to the resort for dinner and sleep.
The Full Marathon:
Today is about stamina and endurance and finishing.
  • Rinse and repeat from the half up to running past the golf courses.
  • From there it seems like a long way to Animal Kingdom, but it really isn’t, and soon you are in AK. In the past, there has been the opportunity to ride Expedition Everest from the single-rider line, but this past weekend the cast members were telling us 45 minute wait. Jerks.
  • Coming out of AK is what is typically the worst stretch of the full in that the sun is up and it has gotten hot and it is just bare concrete and asphalt on Western Way. I was reminded that they are often handing out wet sponges through here. However, after reviewing a map, it isn’t that long of a stretch.
  • Turn the corner at Buena Vista and then it’s off to the Blizzard Beach parking lot. I’m not a fan of BB and would prefer they find another way to include those few tenths of a mile.
  • After BB you go into the back of Hollywood Studios and things start to happen in fairly rapid order.
  • First is Chocolate Mountain, definitely a treat. Some runners go for a ride on Tower of Terror, others have managed Rockin’ Roller Coaster. At this point, I’m personally not sanguine on sitting down on a ride and being able to get back up.
  • The run through HS is short, and then you head off to Boardwalk and into Epcot.
  • Once in Epcot it is a counter clockwise circuit of the world and before you know it you are backstage and headed for the gospel choir.
  • After that, medal time.
  • Bottom line: pace yourself, starting with the 5K.
For all four races, keep an eye out for the little green pyramid tents that the photographers are in if you bought a Photopass. Try to jockey into position so that you aren’t blocked and also try not to block others. That said, a Mike Wazowski experience is inevitable.

In the past two marathons, I’ve been able to run most of the first half of the race and then settle into a fast-stride walk for the remainder. I was able to get to the finish, but my legs weren’t happy. For this past marathon, a fellow rD member showed me her method, which was to pick out a landmark in the visible distance, like a road sign, the 5th light pole, etc and run to that to break up the walking. This has the effect of switching up the muscle groups so that you aren’t getting cramps from the fast walking. In the future, I’ll be more diligent about maintaining my run/walk intervals earlier in the race, and using her interval technique for later in the race.

Did I go into the parks after the full? Yes, after a nap and a soak in a hot bath. Was I very sprightly? Not so much, but the walking around helps with recovery. After this recent Goofy, I headed to the MK and spent the afternoon adding to the Photopass count and getting photos of myself and/or the medals. After it is all over, all you have left are the medals, shirts, and the photos, so get plenty of photos.

And take some extra socks, ziplocks, or something to put the six (!) medals in so they don’t get chipped while traveling.

Good luck!
 
You can’t warn us about watching our step counts on the first 3 race days without sharing yours 😄😄
Seriously?! You went there? Flag on the play.
This is about me imparting [waves hands] my wisdom based on my experience so that others may benefit from and I may not necessarily be good at following my own advice....

But since you asked, and to show how badly I overdid it, from my 2022 Dopey (all numbers per Garmin):
Thur: 32,935 steps, 16.7 miles
Fri: 31,097 steps, 16.1 miles (see, I did take it a little easier)
Sat: 46,885 steps, 24.8 miles
Sun: 66,206 steps, 34.2 miles

I have no clue how the Sunday step count got so high, because after the race I managed to hobble from the Skyliner to Epcot England for dinner and not much else. I'm going to blame all the pre-race staging...

And to show how badly I managed to follow my own advice, for this year's Goofy:
Sat: 38,266 steps, 22 miles
Sun: 72,409 steps, 36.5 miles

The main difference here? Only two days of running, a shortened race on Sat, plus I'm in better shape now, so I was feeling more full of p-ss and vinegar, as my dad would say. Plus, after the marathon, I headed back over to MK and spent hours riding rides and taking pictures. To be honest, my feet and legs felt better than they did after the Dopey, and after the more recent MCM. Plus, the walking around seemed to help with recovery. That said, I slept really well on Sunday night.

Bottom line: I hate being down at Disney without spending some time in the parks, so I'm going to ride some rides and get my fix while I'm there, which is part of why I have trouble following my own advice. As Costanza would say: I'm aware.
YMMV
 
I have resumed my normal running schedule of appx MWF as weather allows, plus a day on the weekend.
One difference is that I have bumped up the distance on my neighborhood route and I am now routinely doing 4 miles (sometimes more) instead of 3 or 3.5.

I did the neighborhood route yesterday, the same route I've done a couple hundred times at least, and where I normally turn around, two Great Danes came running out into the street barking at me! This was a first for me, so it took me by surprise, and a bit scary, keeping in mind that I usually have zero fear or concern about dogs. I got very loud at them and they retreated. In hindsight, they didn't seem to have any intent to bite, and probably just wanted to be petted, if anything, but one doesn't readily process that as they are heading toward you.

Upcoming plans: a St Patrick's Day 5K that my son wants to run with me. My objectives: a new 5K PR (or at least a new PR in the last 20 years), and beating my son. He says he's been running regularly (he's usually with his mom) and he's only 18, so beating him would be quite the feat. IMHO, a new PR is more likely....
 
Warmer temps and sun meant being able to get in back-to-back neighborhood runs this week.
Mon: An easy 3 miles at a 10:15 pace
Tue: 4.25 miles, 9:49 pace overall, 9:15 pace for the first 3 miles, before I eased off.
Still preparing for a 5K PR, but apparently need to step it up some more. Hopefully the flat-ish course will help with that goal.
 

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