Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Clockwork]

Have you even followed Disney the last decade? They prefer jamming an existing IP into a current ride rather than building a completely new ride.

Cheaper to do!

 

[Eric Smith]

I think the issue is that some are indeed saying that it is wrong to have liked Splash Mountain because of it's source material, even if not directly, but if the ride is in fact racially insensitive, then liking it makes you racially insensitive. People defend it because they don't want to be labeled as such and they didn't see it as such to begin with. People are generally being civil here, but ther eis a lot of projecting going on from both sides of the argument, and it's very easy for that to be taken the wrong way.

I haven't seen anyone on here saying it is wrong to have liked the ride. Can you point to an example?

 

[AvidDisReader]

One of the first posts I ever made on this board was about the Song of the South. I have a grainy bootleg copy that was given to me several years ago when I mentioned I always wanted to see it. The movie is not good, the acting is really bad. The depictions of African American is down right disgusting. The only redeeming quality is the scenes of Uncle Remus telling his stories to the kids and the animation of the stories. So the question is, is this art? If yes should we destroy it--goes to a larger question sweeping this country regarding statues but that is political and do not want to go there. As I said when I first posted, someone much smarter than me is going to have to decide what is art and worth saving and what is racist and should be destroyed.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

When are half the attractions closed due to covid? The list of what will be open July 11 shows most things will be open. What "half of the attractions" are going to be closed?

As far as i could see it was just live shows.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/25...ng-that-will-be-be-back-when-the-parks-reopen

 

[BrianL]

I haven't seen anyone on here saying it is wrong to have liked the ride. Can you point to an example?

Well, here it hasn't been bad, but even indirectlly - saying "It's about time" means that people shouldn't have been liking it all this time. Even if that's not the intent it's what makes people bristle against it in such a strong manner. It's not that someone is denigrating the ride, it's that someone is denigratating THEM. It's an emotional response.

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

You are using a term incorrectly and fail to see that, you clearly aren’t grasping the issue and are willing to argue over it. IP isn’t short hand for over used movie paraphernalia, it’s shorthand for intellectual property. You can’t take words with actual definitions and mold them to fit your uses. Overused movie paraphernalia could possibly called cliche, but it has absolutely nothing to do with IP. Don’t try to get me to move on so you can prove your point.

.. as a teacher, sometimes I just need to move on. If you are this bent on arguing the definition of intellectual property's literal versus popular usage definition, you are the one choosing to argue. It is not up for debate that they are both equally valid definitions, but the point is that by arguing nonstop minutae you have done nothing but dance around some strange tangent of my original post. Not really sure why you chose me to rant at, but I am talking about apples, and you are arguing about grape juice.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-25/disney-theme-parks-marvel-star-wars-epcot
Here. Educate yourself of the common parlance.


I suggest that you find something else to perseverate on. By the way-- who quotes Wikipedia as a solid source?

 

[WorldOfPooh]

One of the first posts I ever made on this board was about the Song of the South. I have a grainy bootleg copy that was given to me several years ago when I mentioned I always wanted to see it. The movie is not good, the acting is really bad. The depictions of African American is down right disgusting. The only redeeming quality is the scenes of Uncle Remus telling his stories to the kids and the animation of the stories. So the question is, is this art? If yes should we destroy it--goes to a larger question sweeping this country regarding statues but that is political and do not want to go there. As I said when I first posted, someone much smarter than me is going to have to decide what is art and worth saving and what is racist and should be destroyed.

I think when you are destroying and trying to erase West African folklore and fables the the motive is questionable. It's the equivalent of killing the patient to stop the cancer.

It's very important to keep Bre'r Rabbit and West African fables as another example of how great Africa is. Instead of erasing that from history. We learn Aesop's fables from a young age, no reason to erase West African Bre'r Rabbit fables.

Most people don't even know that the Bre'r Rabbit fables come from West Africa, or that Bre'r Rabbit stories were used as a form of resistance against the evil White slave masters.

Most people don't know that one of the greatest and richest empires was the Empire of Mali in West Africa.

The culture of trying to erase African history only furthers the notion that all history and inventions were made by white people. This is why it's important to retain African history and culture and role models.

 

[Eric Smith]

My feeling is the lazy thing to do is just get rid of Splash Mountain and Bre'r Rabbit and erase it from history.
Unfortunately in doing so you eliminate the African folklore and folktales of Bre'r Rabbit which predate by 100s of years Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle Remus stories. You also erase the retention of and rebellion by the slaves who kept their African culture through Bre'r Rabbit (as well as song, spirituals and dance, or Capoeira in Brazil) even though the white slave masters were trying to erase their African culture and education.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br'er_Rabbit
By erasing Bre'r Rabbit and the African folklore and fables from history, you are reinforcing the notion that nothing came from Africa, everything was invented by the White Man.

A better way to go about it is to keep Splash Mountain:
1. This keeps the Disney fans who love Splash Mountain and it's furry animals happy
2. Have cultural ambassadors from West Africa stationed with exhibits on Bre'r Rabbit who can explain the rich history of the Bre'r Rabbit oral tradition and fables. And also tell stories of Bre'r Rabbit to the park guests and children.
3. Have another station on how the Bre'r Rabbit stories were used by the slaves as a form of rebellion against the White Slave Masters who wanted to eliminate the slaves education and connection with West Africa.

Instead of closing ones eyes to the past and pretending it didn't exist, I believe this is better way to one empower and maintain West African culture, and two educate people on the horrible past era of slavery.


If Disney wants to make an additional Princess and the Frog attraction then they are free to make a new one near the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean or New Orleans Square.

It's not being erased from history. There will still be documentation of history, this is just changing a ride in a theme park.

 

[Clockwork]

.. as a teacher, sometimes I just need to move on. If you are this bent on arguing the definition of intellectual property's literal versus popular usage definition, you are the one choosing to argue. It is not up for debate that they are both equally valid definitions, but the point is that by arguing nonstop minutae you have done nothing but dance around some strange tangent of my original post. Not really sure why you chose me to rant at, but I am talking about apples, and you are arguing about grape juice.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-25/disney-theme-parks-marvel-star-wars-epcot
Here. Educate yourself of the common parlance.


I suggest that you find something else to perseverate on. By the way-- who quotes Wikipedia as a solid source?

Thankfully, I am not one of your students, this isn’t a popular definition, what you’re using is the wrong definition and to prove you’re point you’ve resorted to being demeaning! and of course you post a article behind a paywall to prove your point. Like a teacher once told me prove your work. I haven’t danced around anything, but you seem to be moonwalking all over me and a few other posters here. Where was the rant, are you confusing a discussion with a rant.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Well, here it hasn't been bad, but even indirectlly - saying "It's about time" means that people shouldn't have been liking it all this time. Even if that's not the intent it's what makes people bristle against it in such a strong manner. It's not that someone is denigrating the ride, it's that someone is denigratating THEM. It's an emotional response.

I don't see anything wrong with liking the ride (I loved it) but you can like the ride, be sad it is changing, but also understand and agree with the change.

Nothing wrong with nostolgia, but nostolgia alone isn't a reason to not change

 

[Jiminy76]

Throwing around numbers doesn’t help anything. There is a large number of people upset but there is also a large number happy with the change. I think it’s much closer to 50/50 than what you think it is.

WDWMagic has had a poll up since yesterday asking "Do you agree with the decision to re-theme Splash Mountain?" as of this moment 33% are stating yes and 67% are stating no out of 510 people who responded to the poll.

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

Thankfully I am not one of your students, this isn’t a popular definition, what you’re using is the wrong definition and to prove you’re point you’ve resorted to being demeaning! and of course you post a article behind a paywall to prove your point. Like a teacher once told me prove your work. I haven’t danced around anything, but you seem to be moonwalking over me and a few other posters here.

There are two of you-- I did not start an argument. I posted that yesterday at noon, and both of you decided to pick apart the definition of a single phrase. I'm being very transparent; please go back to bothering somebody else.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

It's not being erased from history. There will still be documentation of history, this is just changing a ride in a theme park.

I think it's naive to think that getting rid of the Bre'r Rabbit IP and putting a negative cloud over it would not impact the West African Bre'r Rabbit fables or teaching of those fables to kids in the US and around the world.

 

[Clockwork]

There are two of you-- I did not start an argument. I posted that yesterday at noon, and both of you decided to pick a part the definition of a single phrase. I'm being very transparent; please go back to bothering somebody else.

Please stop being the person who has to have the last word. You not being transparent you’re being argumentative to prove a point.

 

[Eric Smith]

Are there any guesses on when it would shut down for this?

I would guess that they'll start it over the winter when Splash normally shuts down anyway for the yearly refurb.

 

[always]

I think it's naive to think that getting rid of the Bre'r Rabbit IP and putting a negative cloud over it would not impact the West African Bre'r Rabbit fables or teaching of those fables to kids in the US and around the world.

Is this satire?

 

[SierraT]

There are two of you-- I did not start an argument. I posted that yesterday at noon, and both of you decided to pick apart the definition of a single phrase. I'm being very transparent; please go back to bothering somebody else.

Swirl, I thought IP meant internet protocol so I wasn’t following the discussion at all. Now I know.

 

[Eric Smith]

I think it's naive to think that getting rid of the Bre'r Rabbit IP and putting a negative cloud over it would not impact the West African Bre'r Rabbit fables or teaching of those fables to kids in the US and around the world.

Where are those fables taught anyways? I have never heard of them except for Song of the South.

 

[whiporee]

One of the first posts I ever made on this board was about the Song of the South. I have a grainy bootleg copy that was given to me several years ago when I mentioned I always wanted to see it. The movie is not good, the acting is really bad. The depictions of African American is down right disgusting. The only redeeming quality is the scenes of Uncle Remus telling his stories to the kids and the animation of the stories. So the question is, is this art? If yes should we destroy it--goes to a larger question sweeping this country regarding statues but that is political and do not want to go there. As I said when I first posted, someone much smarter than me is going to have to decide what is art and worth saving and what is racist and should be destroyed.

It really is a bad, bad movie. In addition to bad acting, annoying kids, the ”rural charm“ of the reconstructed South ( they also left out all the burned buildings and homes, as well as the occupying forces), the plot makes no narrative sense.

And one should not forget the Tar Baby. Ever.

Even though it’s the first actual motion picture, no one argues for showing Birth of a Nation. Or Leni Rhenestahl’s films. They exist, they are preserved, but they are not considered part of the popular culture. SotS is not as deplorable as those examples, but its bad enough that even I, a fat 53-year-old whi man who grew up in the south, don’t mind seeing it go away. I think they should re-release PATF and sled Zip-a-dee-d-dah in it, and all problems are solved. *

*okay, maybe not ALL problems

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

Please stop being the person who has to have the last word. You not being transparent you’re being argumentative to prove a point.

My point was my original post about not liking everything in WDW to be rethemed! I had very little to do with the rest of this. By the way, that article is not behind a paywall... It's about the d23 expo. I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't appreciate being singled out for no valid reason.