Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[BrianL]

Nothing wrong with holding tight to positive memories but this is a chance to make new memories. And at least for some people the first chance to make positive ones associated with this specific attraction

I think the issue is that some are indeed saying that it is wrong to have liked Splash Mountain because of it's source material, even if not directly, but if the ride is in fact racially insensitive, then liking it makes you racially insensitive. People defend it because they don't want to be labeled as such and they didn't see it as such to begin with. People are generally being civil here, but there is a lot of projecting going on from both sides of the argument, and it's very easy for that to be taken the wrong way.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

Just curious - I read the link about the song and even in the link itself it states that they do not know if the composers were aware of the song they are saying it is based on (the Turkey in the Straw one). It's speculative really. I'm not saying I know for sure either, but is there a definitive answer? Does there come a time when something exists as its own thing or is even the idea that it might be connected enough to strike it from everything? I am honestly asking here, not proferring a statement.

My feeling is the lazy thing to do is just get rid of Splash Mountain and Bre'r Rabbit and erase it from history.
Unfortunately in doing so you eliminate the African folklore and folktales of Bre'r Rabbit which predate by 100s of years Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle Remus stories. You also erase the retention of and rebellion by the slaves who kept their African culture through Bre'r Rabbit (as well as song, spirituals and dance, or Capoeira in Brazil) even though the white slave masters were trying to erase their African culture and education.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br'er_Rabbit
By erasing Bre'r Rabbit and the African folklore and fables from history, you are reinforcing the notion that nothing came from Africa, everything was invented by the White Man.

A better way to go about it is to keep Splash Mountain:
1. This keeps the Disney fans who love Splash Mountain and it's furry animals happy
2. Have cultural ambassadors from West Africa stationed with exhibits on Bre'r Rabbit who can explain the rich history of the Bre'r Rabbit oral tradition and fables. And also tell stories of Bre'r Rabbit to the park guests and children.
3. Have another station on how the Bre'r Rabbit stories were used by the slaves as a form of rebellion against the White Slave Masters who wanted to eliminate the slaves education and connection with West Africa.

Instead of closing ones eyes to the past and pretending it didn't exist, I believe this is better way to one empower and maintain West African culture, and two educate people on the horrible past era of slavery.


If Disney wants to make an additional Princess and the Frog attraction then they are free to make a new one near the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean or New Orleans Square.

 

[Wonderly93]

Please read the rest of my posts.

I have, we disagree.

 

[BrianL]

That is a good question. I know even prior to this announcement there has been a lot of discussion about Splash and the song and it had always been brought up that that’s what the song is based on.

I see. I'd never really heard that about the song before. I've known about Song of the South of course, but not all that much. To me, this stuff trancended the source material long ago - Is it okay to think of it that way?

 

[Alicefan]

I’m actually a little surprised more people on this board isn’t upset with the change considering it’s a timeless classic. The inside of the ride is magnificent and truly shows the wonder of what Disney can do for a ride. I really hope there are no screens on the rehash

They are, but we live in a time where we're not allowed to say.

 

[Fantasia79]

Agreed with @rteetz. I love(ed) Splash. My daughter is upset its changing and she loves Princes and the Frog. But, last time I was on it, I noticed you can’t understand 1/2 the speakers, sound is awful, most characters and paint really look worn. It was up for a big facelift. It’s a good time to reimagine it.

After learning who is on the team, they’re going to make this amazing. I don’t think it’ll be a Jack Sparrow scenario.

That’s a really great motive with a ton of good music and themes to pull from.

The fact you can’t even watch SotS in the US makes it pretty awkward to have a ride with ties to it. I think that this has been a thought long before 2020.

When the put in Red the Pirate, there wasn’t much uproar leading up to it, they just knew it was a move that had to be done.

 

[BrianL]

Instead of closing ones eyes to the past and pretending it didn't exist, I believe this is better way to one empower and maintain West African culture, and two educate people on the horrible past era of slavery.

This is why I have said they could re-do the folktales - freshen them up, consult with experts. I think trickster stories like that are really interesting - but that just appeals to me.

If Disney wants to make an additional Princess and the Frog attraction then they are free to make a new one near the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean or New Orleans Square.

I have issues witht the Frontierland theming myself, but PatF does not fit better in Liberty Square - in fact it is much, much worse. Liberty Square is much more specifically themed to a time and location.

 

[rteetz]

I see. I'd never really heard that about the song before. I've known about Song of the South of course, but not all that much. To me, this stuff trancended the source material long ago? Is it okay to think of it that way?

I certainly don’t disagree. I think a lot of us are still learning. I know I am. When I first started going to Disney I had no idea the history behind any of this. I think many fall into that boat. Disney has done quite the job trying to hide it. Whether that in itself is right or wrong is another story. I do wish there was more say on the topic from more sources so we could get a better understanding.

 

[Alicefan]

Ugh I hate to see a classic go! I loved Splash Mountain as is. That being said, if they feel the need to re-theme, I would’ve thought Pocahontas would make more sense. I mean, she literally canoes over a waterfall during the movie! Also, it would fit better in the Critter Country theme. If they want to put in a Princess and the Frog somewhere, why not take over Tom Sawyer Island and have a whole mini land dedicated to it? Princess and the Frog fits right in with Disneyland’s New Orleans square, it could work in Disney World too. Tiana could have a whole meet and greet area built right in too! Perfect spot for a beignet stand, and maybe even a sit down restaurant (I think we all know which one would be perfect )

I think your idea is amazing....but it would totally defeat Disney's purpose.

 

[Clockwork]

They are not IP. Disney does not own the folk tale.
Regarding America Sings, the modern definition of IP used in common parlance is regarding a film, or a universe. IE Star Wars. While technically America Sings was owned by Disney, it is not the same. But you know that.

No, but they own this version of the characters, I can’t use Disney version of the characters legally, this is their legally owned image/character, hence IP. If I wanted to use Disneys version/likeness I would have to pay to use them. They don’t own the character, but they do own the likeness. But maybe you didn’t know that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

 

[rteetz]

This is why I have said they could re-do the folktales - freshen them up, consult with experts. I think trickster stories like that are really interesting - but that just appeals to me.

There has been a somewhat vocal minority to sort of use the film as a teaching moment. Whoopi Goldberg for example has said she wants the film released to the public.

 

[igrsod]

So make a change to appease 10% of patrons at the expense of the other 90%? And the other 90% just need to accept it? I guess that makes sense in a sort of alternate universe type of way.

You say DIsney is the happiest place on earth but there are a lot of people who aren't very happy right now.

If you keep an open mind, you might even like the change. Who knows until it is done. There are changes all the time at Disney... some I like, some I don't. But no ride change has ever made me not "happy" while at Disney. I LOVED Soarin'.... fav ride. Then they changed it... I don't love the new version at all. But it's still good and I still ride it multiple times on our trip and I'm still happy. I always comment on how much I miss the California version... and move on. I honestly, am pretty excited about the Princess and the Frog overlay... I think it will be great. Hopefully I'm not disappointed, but I am keeping an open mind.

 

[Disney Bobby]

I think Disney really dropped the ball with the timing of this announcement. I think somebody in marketing said "Hey, since there is all this tension right now, let's announce this to send a message about how virtuous we are." Let's face it, nothing anybody is saying about Splash Mountain being problematic hasn't been said for years. Yet Disney has been spending tens of billions all over the world at the same time. And now, with the pandemic, they have been pulling back on projects due to huge financial losses, and they suddenly announce this project at this time of turmoil.

I'm all for inclusion and diversity, but it's implementation needs to be honest and authentic, not feel contrived and opportunistic. This unfortunately feels more like the latter.

 

[mshanson3121]

Are there any guesses on when it would shut down for this?

 

[YesterDark]

Ok I haven't been online since yesterday. I've been making home made pizza dough and sauce all night.

Now this is on page 49? Do I need to read all 50 pages? I'm going to guess this is what was covered, let me know if I missed anything:

1. Someone posted the news
2. Rteetz posts a few blog posts and/or tweets.
3. Someone says something nostalgic
4. Someone hates it
5. Someone tells someone to relax it's just a ride.
6. Someone says but my feels.
7. Someone hates it
8. Someone loves change
9. Someone alludes to something cynical about race.
10. Someone points out this probably started a long time ago.
11. Rteetz threatens to shut down the thread.
12. Someone hates it.
13. Someone is an armchair Imagineer about how they're going to redo Frontierland.
14. Wishlists of stuff about the ride and the surrounding area.
15. Someone hates it and will cancel their vacation.
16. Someone hates it but probably would have never gone back to WDW again anyway.
17. Rteetz says there is a thread somewhere about something and you should continue there.
18. Now it's page 10
19. Stuff
20. Page 49: Yesterdark posts a snarky list

Did I nail it?

 

[ChipnDale79]

49 pages, and this has probably already been addressed, but im not reading 49 pages (at least im honest).

I get it Song of the South needs to go, disney has known that for a long time. You havent been able to buy that movie for a long long time, so that's not a new thing.

I support changing it, but i'm not sure about Princess and the Frog. Although, the riverboat at the end would be a good reason why they chose that.

I have one concern about the overlay, because Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah is straight from Song of the South, will that be gone? The song alone is steeped deep in Disney Culture and one of the most recognized songs in its history.

Will that song be removed from all things disney going forward also?

 

[Alicefan]

Understandable but at the same time, concept art and approval usually doesn’t take a week or two.

It does if you're in a scramble to be PC. Let's not pretend that they couldn't do it.

 

[chicagoshannon]

Ok I haven't been online since yesterday. I've been making home made pizza dough and sauce all night.

Now this is on page 49? Do I need to read all 50 pages? I'm going to guess this is what was covered, let me know if I missed anything:

1. Someone posted the news
2. Rteetz posts a few blog posts and/or tweets.
3. Someone says something nostalgic
4. Someone hates it
5. Someone tells someone to relax it's just a ride.
6. Someone says but my feels.
7. Someone hates it
8. Someone loves change
9. Someone alludes to something cynical about race.
10. Someone points out this probably started a long time ago.
11. Rteetz threatens to shut down the thread.
12. Someone hates it.
13. Someone is an armchair Imagineer about how they're going to redo Frontierland.
14. Wishlists of stuff about the ride and the surrounding area.
15. Someone hates it and will cancel their vacation.
16. Someone hates it but probably would have never gone back to WDW again anyway.
17. Rteetz says there is a thread somewhere about something and you should continue there.
18. Now it's page 10
19. Stuff
20. Page 49: Yesterdark posts a snarky list

Did I nail it?

#11 didn't happen.

 

[Clockwork]

49 pages, and this has probably already been addressed, but im not reading 49 pages (at least im honest).

I get it Song of the South needs to go, disney has known that for a long time. You havent been able to buy that movie for a long long time, so that's not a new thing.

I support changing it, but i'm not sure about Princess and the Frog. Although, the riverboat at the end would be a good reason why they chose that.

I have one concern about the overlay, because Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah is straight from Song of the South, will that be gone? The song alone is steeped deep in Disney Culture and one of the most recognized songs in its history.

Will that song be removed from all things disney going forward also?

Looks like it.

 

[mshanson3121]

Ok I haven't been online since yesterday. I've been making home made pizza dough and sauce all night.

Now this is on page 49? Do I need to read all 50 pages? I'm going to guess this is what was covered, let me know if I missed anything:

1. Someone posted the news
2. Rteetz posts a few blog posts and/or tweets.
3. Someone says something nostalgic
4. Someone hates it
5. Someone tells someone to relax it's just a ride.
6. Someone says but my feels.
7. Someone hates it
8. Someone loves change
9. Someone alludes to something cynical about race.
10. Someone points out this probably started a long time ago.
11. Rteetz threatens to shut down the thread.
12. Someone hates it.
13. Someone is an armchair Imagineer about how they're going to redo Frontierland.
14. Wishlists of stuff about the ride and the surrounding area.
15. Someone hates it and will cancel their vacation.
16. Someone hates it but probably would have never gone back to WDW again anyway.
17. Rteetz says there is a thread somewhere about something and you should continue there.
18. Now it's page 10
19. Stuff
20. Page 49: Yesterdark posts a snarky list

Did I nail it?

I can't say with absolute certainty as I only skimmed a couple pages, but you had most of it covered just within those two pages that I did skim....