Spin off... if your child gifted?

[Magpie]

It isn't that they are being wooed by colleges, it's the "ability beyond their years" that usually makes one gifted.

Fine, then any child who has academic ability beyond their years is just as gifted as your daughter, or the other poster's artistic son.

And that's quite easily tested, isn't it?

 

[Sydnie]

Semantics semantics semantics.

One can be gifted and not be a prodigy, either in academics or in sports.

 

[golfgal]

Fine, then any child who has academic ability beyond their years is just as gifted as your daughter, or the other poster's artistic son.

And that's quite easily tested, isn't it?

Yes, it is, but it is still beyond being in a few AP classes and getting a scholarship...and it isn't JUST about IQ--if it were, our oldest would be at MIT , but he's not and not even CLOSE to being able to go there .

 

[brerrabbit]

Gifted, talented, high IQ, whatever you want to call it does not mean diddly squat unless that particular ability is nurtured and developed to it's full potential.

Okay, maybe a bad example but relates directly to golf. In a Family Guy episode Cleveland's son who is like 8 is at the driving range with Peter and Cleveland and can play golf lights out. Peter says I will make him the next Tiger Woods. Cleveland laughs and says good luck he doesn't stay with anything long enough and you can't change that. So Peter enters a Father Son tournamnet with Cleveland Jr. and all they need is to finish the last hole and they win the tournament. Cleveland Jr. sees a butterfly and starts chasing it and leaves Peter on the 18th tee. Cleveland laughs at him and says I told you so. Point is great talent, gift, whatever, the kid decides he likes something else better and off he goes.

Different story same end. A good friend of mine walks on the Oklahoma Golf team his freshman year. One of the deciding factors on who plays in the first tournament of the year is a benifit tournament to raise funds for the team. Alumni play with the golf team and so it's a windy, stormy, rainy day and my friend goes out and in horrible conditions from the back tee's shoots a 1 under 71. He is convinced he has a pro future, only problem is Andrew McGee ( a subsiquint pro) plays the same day in the same conditions and cards a 7 under 65. Several other golfers shoot lower than my friend as well. He never gets to play in a tournament for Oklahoma even though he stays on the team for four years. He looks back to this day and says, I was good, I had talent, I thought I had a gift, but on that day I knew I would never go pro.

Point is part of the battle is talent, a gift, an ability. The second part of the battle is dedication. The third part of the battle is ability to handle diversity. And finally you have to get the breaks. So while many show apptitudes for things early, the proof is in their ability to capitalize on them and achieve certain things throughout their lives.

As far as Gifted students go, I will have tons of stories to share this year as my wife is a registrar at a Middle School that is opening a Gifted and Talented program this year for students from all across the district. She is already having to deal with the parents of said gifted students ands thus far the experience has been less that enjoyable. Hope she can survive the year.

 

[golfgal]

Gifted, talented, high IQ, whatever you want to call it does not mean diddly squat unless that particular ability is nurtured and developed to it's full potential.

Okay, maybe a bad example but relates directly to golf. In a Family Guy episode Cleveland's son who is like 8 is at the driving range with Peter and Cleveland and can play golf lights out. Peter says I will make him the next Tiger Woods. Cleveland laughs and says good luck he doesn't stay with anything long enough and you can't change that. So Peter enters a Father Son tournamnet with Cleveland Jr. and all they need is to finish the last hole and they win the tournament. Cleveland Jr. sees a butterfly and starts chasing it and leaves Peter on the 18th tee. Cleveland laughs at him and says I told you so. Point is great talent, gift, whatever, the kid decides he likes something else better and off he goes.

Different story same end. A good friend of mine walks on the Oklahoma Golf team his freshman year. One of the deciding factors on who plays in the first tournament of the year is a benifit tournament to raise funds for the team. Alumni play with the golf team and so it's a windy, stormy, rainy day and my friend goes out and in horrible conditions from the back tee's shoots a 1 under 71. He is convinced he has a pro future, only problem is Andrew McGee ( a subsiquint pro) plays the same day in the same conditions and cards a 7 under 65. Several other golfers shoot lower than my friend as well. He never gets to play in a tournament for Oklahoma even though he stays on the team for four years. He looks back to this day and says, I was good, I had talent, I thought I had a gift, but on that day I knew I would never go pro.

Point is part of the battle is talent, a gift, an ability. The second part of the battle is dedication. The third part of the battle is ability to handle diversity. And finally you have to get the breaks. So while many show apptitudes for things early, the proof is in their ability to capitalize on them and achieve certain things throughout their lives.

As far as Gifted students go, I will have tons of stories to share this year as my wife is a registrar at a Middle School that is opening a Gifted and Talented program this year for students from all across the district. She is already having to deal with the parents of said gifted students ands thus far the experience has been less that enjoyable. Hope she can survive the year.

I agree--like I said earlier, the difference between our DD and the other top players is they want it more. She has zero desire to get to the pro level yet when she plays, now, in tournaments with kids that DO compete at the national level, she does as well or better than most of them (on average--everyone has off days you know). If she put even a little more effort into her game, she would be one of the top rated players in the nation--but she doesn't want to. It's frustrating to see that kind of talent go by the wayside, but then again, it wouldn't be any fun living with a grumpy teenager either. She is realistic about it-it's going to be a way to get most, if not all, of her college paid for--what's wrong with that.

Over my years of coaching I have seen other very gifted athletes go by the wayside because of lack of work ethic and others, like DD, that just don't want it bad enough. It's hard to watch that as well.

 

[Magpie]

I agree--like I said earlier, the difference between our DD and the other top players is they want it more. She has zero desire to get to the pro level yet when she plays, now, in tournaments with kids that DO compete at the national level, she does as well or better than most of them (on average--everyone has off days you know). If she put even a little more effort into her game, she would be one of the top rated players in the nation--but she doesn't want to. It's frustrating to see that kind of talent go by the wayside, but then again, it wouldn't be any fun living with a grumpy teenager either. She is realistic about it-it's going to be a way to get most, if not all, of her college paid for--what's wrong with that.

Over my years of coaching I have seen other very gifted athletes go by the wayside because of lack of work ethic and others, like DD, that just don't want it bad enough. It's hard to watch that as well.

If you're under the impression you've run into more than ONE gifted athlete in your years of coaching, you're clearly mistaken. What you had weren't gifted athletes, they were just very talented. Truly gifted athletes are one in a million, don'tcha know.

Oh, and if an athlete is truly gifted, they won't need coaching. They'll be able to pick it up all on their own.

 

[HelenePA]

My dd8 taught herself to read, & write at 2.5... I still dont think she is gifted.. I think she's smarter than most kids her age. Her spelling abilities are amazing.. I hope she's on ESPN one day for the national spelling bee.. but then again she doesn't play golf so she couldn't be gifted

 

[Magpie]

My dd8 taught herself to read, & write at 2.5... I still dont think she is gifted.. I think she's smarter than most kids her age. Her spelling abilities are amazing.. I hope she's on ESPN one day for the national spelling bee.. but then again she doesn't play golf so she couldn't be gifted

I think she's probably gifted at reading, writing and spelling, that's for sure!

 

[MnMomtoboys]

If you're under the impression you've run into more than ONE gifted athlete in your years of coaching, you're clearly mistaken. What you had weren't gifted athletes, they were just very talented. Truly gifted athletes are one in a million, don'tcha know.

Oh, and if an athlete is truly gifted, they won't need coaching. They'll be able to pick it up all on their own.

You forgot this is MN where life is perfect and everyone is gifted. And we can't have any of those pesky special needs kids here that would ruin the illusion.

 

[LisaR]

I agree--like I said earlier, the difference between our DD and the other top players is they want it more. She has zero desire to get to the pro level yet when she plays, now, in tournaments with kids that DO compete at the national level, she does as well or better than most of them (on average--everyone has off days you know). If she put even a little more effort into her game, she would be one of the top rated players in the nation--but she doesn't want to. It's frustrating to see that kind of talent go by the wayside, but then again, it wouldn't be any fun living with a grumpy teenager either. She is realistic about it-it's going to be a way to get most, if not all, of her college paid for--what's wrong with that.

Over my years of coaching I have seen other very gifted athletes go by the wayside because of lack of work ethic and others, like DD, that just don't want it bad enough. It's hard to watch that as well.

I'm curious if you have a line in the sand that you draw separating talent versus a gift.

I am told that I am an excellent cook. Is that a talent or a gift or are they one in the same?

I know teen boys that can whip through video games in a matter of hours. I couldn't do what they can do. Are they gifted? Talented? Wasting their life?

My DD has been told by teachers and now professors that she is a very talented writer. She has had a few things published. Does that make her gifted? If this is a gift instead of a talent, does that mean that anyone that has had a book published is also gifted? Does that mean the sexual predator that had his book published is gifted?

My dd8 taught herself to read, & write at 2.5... I still dont think she is gifted.. I think she's smarter than most kids her age. Her spelling abilities are amazing.. I hope she's on ESPN one day for the national spelling bee.. but then again she doesn't play golf so she couldn't be gifted

My DD was slightly behind your DD. She didn't teach herself to read until she was 3. Slacker! She was so far ahead of everyone else but the realty is, most books are only written on an 8th or 9th grade level. So while it sounded great to tell people that my 5 year old read Little House on the Prairie books by herself, what do I say now that she is older and books aren't written on a very high level? My 11th grader can read on an 8th grade level? Not quite as impressive.

 

[golfgal]

I'm curious if you have a line in the sand that you draw separating talent versus a gift.

I am told that I am an excellent cook. Is that a talent or a gift or are they one in the same?

I know teen boys that can whip through video games in a matter of hours. I couldn't do what they can do. Are they gifted? Talented? Wasting their life?

My DD has been told by teachers and now professors that she is a very talented writer. She has had a few things published. Does that make her gifted? If this is a gift instead of a talent, does that mean that anyone that has had a book published is also gifted? Does that mean the sexual predator that had his book published is gifted?



My DD was slightly behind your DD. She didn't teach herself to read until she was 3. Slacker! She was so far ahead of everyone else but the realty is, most books are only written on an 8th or 9th grade level. So while it sounded great to tell people that my 5 year old read Little House on the Prairie books by herself, what do I say now that she is older and books aren't written on a very high level? My 11th grader can read on an 8th grade level? Not quite as impressive.

If you go back and read the multitude of posts defining "gifted" you would have your answer--the EXCEPTIONAL talent/gift--meaning out of the ordinary or even beyond "above average". When hundreds of thousands of people are excellent cooks or whip through a video game in hours (and that number would be in the millions for teen boys ) it makes them good/above average, but not gifted. I guess I don't see why this is such a hard concept to grasp?

Prodigy
Gifted
Talented
Above Average
Average
.
.
.

There are an abundance of above average and talented people in the world in all walks of life. That doesn't discount their ability but millions of kids get good grades and are in AP classes, that doesn't make them gifted scholars. Now that one kid in 5 years that scores 5's on 27 AP tests as a sophomore--gifted scholar. Do you see the difference???? As far as prodigies go--that would be 5's on 27 AP tests at age 7.

 

[Swan4Me]

Oh, get off it already--the whole idea of this thread is defining what is gifted. When someone posts that they have a child that reads 50 books and has good grades that they are "gifted" there is nothing in that statement to support the fact that they are gifted-vs just being a really smart kid. ...

I revised my post-BTW
It was the ACT he scored in the top 2% in the USA and recieved a National award in 7th grade
To get into the highly selective High school he retook it and scored near perfect in the BEGINNING of Freshman year (34)-36 is tops(tHE usa NORM IS 21)

I feel my Nephew is gifted for the astounding amount of reading he did at a young age-now remember the book his class was using for Reading the whole year of 3rd grade-he read it as ONE of the 50 books he read the summer BEFORE 3rd grade

The amount of activities he excels in and acomplishes besides his school work amazes me-my kids are normal BTW

 

[Magpie]

My DD was slightly behind your DD. She didn't teach herself to read until she was 3. Slacker! She was so far ahead of everyone else but the realty is, most books are only written on an 8th or 9th grade level. So while it sounded great to tell people that my 5 year old read Little House on the Prairie books by herself, what do I say now that she is older and books aren't written on a very high level? My 11th grader can read on an 8th grade level? Not quite as impressive.

This is something I've thought about a fair bit, too!

My daughter was sitting on my lap picking words out of the newspaper all on her own when she was a young two. By two-and-a-half, she was reading beginner books. She took off rather suddenly when she was four, and jumped from reading Illustrated Classics to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's in the fall of her junior kindergarten year. By that Christmas, she'd read - and loved - the Lord of the Rings. The psychologist who tested her was initially worried that she might be hyperlexic, due to her very formal way of speaking. Fortunately, it turned out she's just very bright.

The thing is - when she started reading doesn't matter one bit now. She's still a good reader, but only in the sense that many adults are also good readers. When she was little I used to tell her, "I didn't learn to read until I was seven, and I still read better than you!"

Of course, then she started reading faster and with more accurate recall than me, so that kind of bit me in the butt. And so now I say to her, "Sure you started young, but what are you reading now? Use it or lose it, kid!"

Since then, she's moved on to excel other areas of learning and the arts, so it's not like reading was the only thing she was ever good at. Reading early doesn't mean she's smart, but the fact that she's smart is undoubtedly what enabled her to read early.

 

[AverageDiser]

You really created a profile just to post this....

Actually if you were paying attention you would have noticed this wasn't my first post, and my profile hasn't changed since I "officially" registered. I tend to lurk more than post. That being said, like may others, I also found it ironic that someone so quick to dismiss the giftedness of other children was so quick to point out the giftedness of her own child. Pot..meet kettle.

 

[golfgal]

I revised my post-BTW
It was the ACT he scored in the top 2% in the USA and recieved a National award in 7th grade
To get into the highly selective High school he retook it and scored near perfect in the BEGINNING of Freshman year (34)-36 is tops(tHE usa NORM IS 21)

I feel my Nephew is gifted for the astounding amount of reading he did at a young age-now remember the book his class was using for Reading the whole year of 3rd grade-he read it as ONE of the 50 books he read the summer BEFORE 3rd grade

The amount of activities he excels in and acomplishes besides his school work amazes me-my kids are normal BTW

Which is fine and dandy but your first post mentioned none of this and everyone is jumping down MY throat because I questioned his giftedness for "reading a lot of books". Now, other things, sure he may be gifted and a 34 on the ACT is really good but the initial information provided didn't support him being gifted.

 

[Magpie]

If you go back and read the multitude of posts defining "gifted" you would have your answer--the EXCEPTIONAL talent/gift--meaning out of the ordinary or even beyond "above average". When hundreds of thousands of people are excellent cooks or whip through a video game in hours (and that number would be in the millions for teen boys ) it makes them good/above average, but not gifted. I guess I don't see why this is such a hard concept to grasp?

Prodigy
Gifted
Talented
Above Average
Average
.
.
.

There are an abundance of above average and talented people in the world in all walks of life. That doesn't discount their ability but millions of kids get good grades and are in AP classes, that doesn't make them gifted scholars. Now that one kid in 5 years that scores 5's on 27 AP tests as a sophomore--gifted scholar. Do you see the difference???? As far as prodigies go--that would be 5's on 27 AP tests at age 7.

See, this is where we can't agree. You've defined "giftedness" right out of existence.

Generally "gifted" is agreed to be the top one percent of students. (Sometimes the top two to five percent, if it's a "gifted AND talented" program.)

That should be at least one in a hundred students. One in a hundred is quite exceptional. It's out of the ordinary, and rare.

If you want to say that "gifted" isn't 1 in 100, it's 1 in a million or one in ten million - well, you're going to be on your own. Because that's not what it means.

Not even in golf.

 

[golfgal]

See, this is where we can't agree. You've defined "giftedness" right out of existence.

Generally "gifted" is agreed to be the top one percent of students. (Sometimes the top two to five percent, if it's a "gifted AND talented" program.)

That should be at least one in a hundred students. One in a hundred is quite exceptional. It's out of the ordinary, and rare.

If you want to say that "gifted" isn't 1 in 100, it's 1 in a million or one in ten million - well, you're going to be on your own. Because that's not what it means.

Not even in golf.

See, that is where this whole thread started--the "school" definition of gifted vs the "actual" definition of gifted. The VAST majority of kids in "gifted" programs in schools everywhere are NOT gifted--they are just really good students and this is an outreach for them to expand on the general school day. 1 in 100 is NOT gifted-they are top students, yes, but NOT gifted. I can point to any number of "top" students that are there because of the hours and hours and hours of studying they do, not because it comes naturally. They have above average IQ's but not in the gifted range--thus the problem with the school use of "gifted".

 

[Magpie]

See, that is where this whole thread started--the "school" definition of gifted vs the "actual" definition of gifted. The VAST majority of kids in "gifted" programs in schools everywhere are NOT gifted--they are just really good students and this is an outreach for them to expand on the general school day. 1 in 100 is NOT gifted-they are top students, yes, but NOT gifted. I can point to any number of "top" students that are there because of the hours and hours and hours of studying they do, not because it comes naturally. They have above average IQ's but not in the gifted range--thus the problem with the school use of "gifted".

Why do YOU get to define what "gifted" means? Why aren't schools and psychologists considered reasonable authorities on the subject? Tests like the WISC were scientifically designed to differentiate between prior learning and raw brainpower.

BTW - I agree a top student can get to the top with study and hard work. They're not necessarily intellectually gifted, but they're certainly gifted in perseverance and determination and organizational skills. Which is why a school of 500 kids can actually manage to fill a Gifted and Talented class. And that's awesome, because no matter WHY these kids are gifted learners - whether their gifts are in perseverance or intellect - they still can benefit from an education of more depth and breadth.

 

[golfgal]

Why do YOU get to define what "gifted" means? Why aren't schools and psychologists considered reasonable authorities on the subject? Tests like the WISC were scientifically designed to differentiate between prior learning and raw brainpower.

BTW - I agree a top student can get to the top with study and hard work. They're not necessarily intellectually gifted, but they're certainly gifted in perseverance and determination and organizational skills. Which is why a school of 500 kids can actually manage to fill a Gifted and Talented class. And that's awesome, because no matter WHY these kids are gifted learners - whether their gifts are in perseverance or intellect - they still can benefit from an education of more depth and breadth.

I agree that these programs are great for the top students and who said I am the one making up the definition--the school psychologists aren't either--they just CALL their programs that--they know full well that most of the kids in the program are not really gifted, just top students. The definition comes, several times in this thread, from more reliable sources and the dictionary.

 

[okeydokey]

See, that is where this whole thread started--the "school" definition of gifted vs the "actual" definition of gifted. The VAST majority of kids in "gifted" programs in schools everywhere are NOT gifted--they are just really good students and this is an outreach for them to expand on the general school day. 1 in 100 is NOT gifted-they are top students, yes, but NOT gifted. I can point to any number of "top" students that are there because of the hours and hours and hours of studying they do, not because it comes naturally. They have above average IQ's but not in the gifted range--thus the problem with the school use of "gifted".

Well I guess they are only gifted if YOU and you alone decide the proper definition. Make sure it is different for academics and athletics because we all want to be sure that your own child is still considered gifted while everyone else's is not. I will bow out now so that you can respond yet one more time about how right you are, thus getting in the last word. Ready,...go!