Speaking of engineering

[katie01]

Kind of a spin off of the online dating thread, which led to a discussion on engineers

DS is 15 and thinks he is going to pursue engineering. Ultimately we support whatever he decides, but I think it doesn't hurt for us to also point out other career possibilities. I feel like I had no direction or clue what I wanted to be when I grew up, and it ended up having long-term repurcussions with wasting so many of my college years in the wrong field. That said, I'm hoping someone would like to help play "career counselor" for us just for fun.

My main concern with engineering is how many of the jobs seem to be going overseas, and how many engineers we know who hate their jobs (maybe everyone hates their jobs? I started a similar thread about my DD's desire to be a teacher some day and most teachers here said they wished they'd done something else).

And lastly, I know it seems like most of the engineers I know who do have jobs, have to travel, and DS has a pretty bad fear of flying. Also germaphobia, which rules out the medical field, although I think biomedical engineering would be really cool.

It was interesting reading the comments about the personality of an engineer, I do think DS has some of these qualities, mainly being intelligent and sometimes slightly obsessively focused on what he's interested in, but other time completely missing obvious common sense things. He is good at math and science, his standardized tests have been high across the board, but actually his reading and writing scores are higher than his math scores--quite a bit higher in fact. Mainly because he doesn't compute math problems quickly enough for the standardized tests, he says he's never able to finish the math portions.

He's never wanted to participate in anything like robotics (tried once and he said he felt out of his element), and he does his school work without being told to, but with things like the class science project has done only the basic minimum to get by, so he was one of the few boys in his class who didn't advance to the science fair.

He has good people skills, gets along well with all types of people, is pretty literal-minded and rule following. Despite the good people skills, he'd make a terrible salesperson LOL.

His first love is playing video games, and second is playing the piano and writing songs. I've mentioned computer programming or video game development to him and he says he "doesn't think he'd be good at that", but I don't understand why he thinks that.

He does say he likes to solve problems, and his paternal grandfather is a retired engineer, so maybe he is indeed on the right track. But his grandpa hated his job too

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and also, how much direction did you give your own kids towards career interests? As I said, I want him to do what HE wants to do and whatever makes him happy, I just know what an expensive investment college is, and I think there are many fields out there that we don't even know exist, that I'd like to at least mention to him.

 

[bcla]

Many engineering disciplines are tough these days since as you note it's pretty easy for any large employer to set up a design center overseas. I'm in electronics and have had to search for a job a few times in the past few years, and for quite some time the large employers will show that many of these jobs are in India, China, Europe, and even Israel. Many of the people I've worked with over the years were based in Eastern Europe or Asia where I'm sure they were earning smaller salaries in absolute dollars, although they also had a lower cost of living. They were for the most part competent, so it's tough competing with a workforce that's cheaper and good at what they do.

Also - you can look at where many of the top engineering jobs are and compare that to the cost of living. Silicon Valley, Boston, Seattle, etc can be very expensive. There are also industry jobs in Texas, Arizona, Florida, or other less expensive areas.

The other thing is job security. Back when I started I was encouraged to enter the field by a relative who said that it was easy to find a job and paid well. If there were layoffs it was easy to find another job. That's changed quite a bit. Back when I was interviewing, some of my interviewers gave me their history, which sometimes included long periods of unemployment when there was a dip in the economy. Also - if you're not one who might aspire to management, you're dealing with an industry where in the long term there's younger people coming up who will demand lower salaries.

I don't know if I would encourage my kid to go into the same field. It's a far different environment than when I was just starting off.

 

[katie01]

Many engineering disciplines are tough these days since as you note it's pretty easy for any large employer to set up a design center overseas. I'm in electronics and have had to search for a job a few times in the past few years, and for quite some time the large employers will show that many of these jobs are in India, China, Europe, and even Israel. Many of the people I've worked with over the years were based in Eastern Europe or Asia where I'm sure they were earning smaller salaries in absolute dollars, although they also had a lower cost of living. They were for the most part competent, so it's tough competing with a workforce that's cheaper and good at what they do.

Also - you can look at where many of the top engineering jobs are and compare that to the cost of living. Silicon Valley, Boston, Seattle, etc can be very expensive. There are also industry jobs in Texas, Arizona, Florida, or other less expensive areas.

The other thing is job security. Back when I started I was encouraged to enter the field by a relative who said that it was easy to find a job and paid well. If there were layoffs it was easy to find another job. That's changed quite a bit. Back when I was interviewing, some of my interviewers gave me their history, which sometimes included long periods of unemployment when there was a dip in the economy. Also - if you're not one who might aspire to management, you're dealing with an industry where in the long term there's younger people coming up who will demand lower salaries.

I don't know if I would encourage my kid to go into the same field. It's a far different environment than when I was just starting off.

Yes, that does seem to echo what I've been hearing too. I suppose there may be areas of engineering with better job prospects, I've heard possibly civil engineering.

It seems daunting choosing any career any more, as I mentioned before, it seems like the great majority of workers are unhappy in their jobs. I have to get out of this depressed mind set of thinking I'm sending my kids off in the world to rack up monster debt pursuing a life of drudgery and unemployment.

 

[bcla]

Yes, that does seem to echo what I've been hearing too. I suppose there may be areas of engineering with better job prospects, I've heard possibly civil engineering.

It seems daunting choosing any career any more, as I mentioned before, it seems like the great majority of workers are unhappy in their jobs. I have to get out of this depressed mind set of thinking I'm sending my kids off in the world to rack up monster debt pursuing a life of drudgery and unemployment.

Yeah - I suppose civil engineering is a field where it's less likely that a company will just set up shop overseas. It requires a certain amount of "you are there". Electronics always had a lot of jobs around the world, but right now India and China are just overwhelming the world job market with engineers. Intel can hire people in India. Boeing is now subcontracting design/manufacturing to companies around the world, which might even attract business but depresses the need for employees in the US. We're at a point where you can't really be protectionist and insist on workers being employed in the US.

 

[cabanafrau]

Can't help but comment on a couple things that stood out to me. You're against his idea to pursue engineering, excepting of course biomedical engineering because it seems interesting -- to you. You think engineering will lead to long periods of unemployment, but feel he might do well to pursue video game programming because he's interested? Unless we're headed for a serious video game boom I can't imagine how all the students currently pursuing video game programming are going to find jobs. It's simply unreal the number of HS and college aged students who are or are planning to pursue that field.

The key to pursuing engineering disciplines and finding employment is strongly correlated to where students study and the networking and internships they build along the way. Some programs have strong ties in certain industries and their well trained graduates are highly in demand.

 

[Southernmiss]

I know a young lady graduating next week with an engineering degree. She had 4 job offers and starts with a company June 8th.

So in her case, there's still a demand.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Maybe it's just this area, but engineering here is a VERY solid choice. I have many friends in engineering and none of them have ever been unemployed (I'm almost 50).

It should be noted not all of them are still working as engineers. Some have moved into supervisory or upper management roles. One, with a degeee in Engineering Management, has worked his entire career doing safety inspections for insurance companies. None of my engineering friends have had to do any significant travel (the inspector does a lot of driving, but is home most nights). That's not to say they NEVER travel, but it's fairly limited.

And I personally believe it's one of those degrees that lends itself well to other vocations. That said, doing math quickly, not just correctly, is a definite must IMO.

 

[Gracie09]

DH is a Civil Engineer - heavy construction, infrastructure, bridges, airports, tunnels etc. He works a lot of hours, especially when they are doing a big bid (he's the head of preconstruction for the East Coast of an International Engineering firm). He was outside for a number of years before moving inside so he could spend more time with the kids and me. Its not an easy job by any stretch, but it is fulfilling. He loves driving and seeing a project "he built". He did have one job that he had to travel weekly, but when that ended he was back in the main office.
We could move. He gets calls multiple times a week, but we are happy here for now. When I'm done with my degree we may reevaluate.

His company cannot hire enough qualified engineers. However, they are picky with whom they hire. There is a competitive paid internship and that may or may not result in a job offer at the end of the year. And they often hire experienced people at a level lower than they were at other places (salary is usually comparable though) because they want to see how you work. That said, DH has been promoted twice in 5 years. He gets steady raises and bonus bumps. The benefits are excellent, including his health care which covers us all for a very reasonable cost. There are opportunities to move within the company if one is looking for that. So overall he is happy with his choice in career.

 

[katie01]

Can't help but comment on a couple things that stood out to me. You're against his idea to pursue engineering, excepting of course biomedical engineering because it seems interesting -- to you. You think engineering will lead to long periods of unemployment, but feel he might do well to pursue video game programming because he's interested? Unless we're headed for a serious video game boom I can't imagine how all the students currently pursuing video game programming are going to find jobs. It's simply unreal the number of HS and college aged students who are or are planning to pursue that field.

The key to pursuing engineering disciplines and finding employment is strongly correlated to where students study and the networking and internships they build along the way. Some programs have strong ties in certain industries and their well trained graduates are highly in demand.

Why do I get the feeling that no matter how carefully I word things here, I will always get these kinds of responses? I feel like you're saying I only want what makes *me* happy, not what will make *him* happy? If I didn't already try to convey just the opposite of that in my post, I apologize, but I don't know how else to say it.

 

[katie01]

I know a young lady graduating next week with an engineering degree. She had 4 job offers and starts with a company June 8th.

So in her case, there's still a demand.

That is encouraging to hear! What field of engineering is it?

 

[Chocolate Cake]

This is news to me. Engineering is absolutely a solid career choice in the United States. I cant speak for other countries.

Like Southernmiss stated, I know many young people with job offers before they graduate.

 

[cabanafrau]

Why do I get the feeling that no matter how carefully I word things here, I will always get these kinds of responses? I feel like you're saying I only want what makes *me* happy, not what will make *him* happy? If I didn't already try to convey just the opposite of that in my post, I apologize, but I don't know how else to say it.

I was merely commenting on the fact that you had a con for all types of engineering except biomedical, because you think it seems pretty cool. I didn't conjure that up out of thin air, you stated it directly.

"These kinds of responses"? Perhaps I touched a nerve?

 

[bcla]

This is news to me. Engineering is absolutely a solid career choice in the United States. I cant speak for other countries.

Like Southernmiss stated, I know many young people with job offers before they graduate.

It really depends on the industry. A lot of the hot industries will hire new/recent grads because they're cheaper, and often these companies are high risk, high reward with a possibility of IPOs but also the possibility of shutting down. I think Mark Zuckerberg made a mistake to say what he was actually thinking, but remember when he said "Young people are just smarter"?

Here's an article on the issue:

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bottomline/article/In-Silicon-Valley-age-can-be-a-curse-4742365.php

My uncle had a great series of engineering jobs when he was young and up to his 40s. Then his defense contractor employer laid him off and he was having trouble finding a job. He lived off of a side business, but still wanted to get back and had a very difficult time. After a divorce he moved to the East Coast because that was the only job he could find, but eventually they laid him off.

Part of the issue is that a lot of these jobs end up creating a worker with a specialized skill set. The jobs that may be out there won't necessarily have that same requirement, and employers may not wait for someone experienced and commanding a higher salary to ramp up. They might be more tolerant of a new grad since they won't cost as much and can theoretically be molded into the ideal worker. If one is a new grad that's one thing, but for someone experienced who will make more money they want the "purple unicorn".

 

[katie01]

I was merely commenting on the fact that you had a con for all types of engineering except biomedical, because you think it seems pretty cool. I didn't conjure that up out of thin air, you stated it directly.

"These kinds of responses"? Perhaps I touched a nerve?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say by touching a nerve? I just found it interesting that out of that long post where I said I wanted DS to find something that would make him happy and fulfilled, you seemed to think I am trying to force DS into biomedical engineering because *I* would like it? No. I figured my post was long enough without giving an entire life history, but DS had been interested in the medical field at one time but as I said later the germaphobe thing led him to rule that out. Hearing about biomedical engineering made me think "Oh, maybe he'd like something like that, he was initially interested in the medical field, but doesn't like the "blood and guts" part, maybe biomedical engineering would tie the two fields together". I really don't know that much about it, that's why I posted, thinking maybe someone else had experience to share.

I have met so many engineers who are unhappy, that I wanted to find out if this is the general state of the field, or if there are areas of it that may be more in demand or enjoyable. As I said, I felt like I didn't have enough info at this age about what careers are even out there. Even now I hear someone mention their career and I think, "What is that? What does it involve?" and I feel like I want to arm DS with as much knowledge as possible to know what is out there for him. I never said "I am against him pursuing engineering" as you said, I just want to give him as many ideas as possible for what is out there. He has never said he loves the idea of engineering and it would be his dream come to true to be an engineer, it seems more like him saying that because he's not sure what else to pick. I ended up thinking I'd like one field, and then having to transfer colleges because what I eventually realized I wanted to do wasn't an available major at that college. With the price of a college education, I don't think it hurts to think carefully about the choices early.

 

[DisBabe94]

I just graduated with a Civil Engineering degree from University of Arizona in May 2016. Everyone in my class got jobs or accepted into a grad program of their choosing, even the students who had bad GPAs (in the 2s) or those who I thought weren't generally "employable". A huge portion also had paid internships through the years. Personally I worked on a research project with one of my professors and was heavily involved with our chapter of ASCE.

 

[katie01]

I just graduated with a Civil Engineering degree from University of Arizona in May 2016. Everyone in my class got jobs or accepted into a grad program of their choosing, even the students who had bad GPAs (in the 2s) or those who I thought weren't generally "employable". A huge portion also had paid internships through the years. Personally I worked on a research project with one of my professors and was heavily involved with our chapter of ASCE.

That is really encouraging to hear, and congrats on your degree! We have a family friend who is going to the U of Arizona for engineering, I'll pass that info along.

Is there anything you'd recommend doing in high school to help a student figure out what area of engineering they'd like to go into, or do you figure it out as you go along in a general program?

 

[aprilchem]

My husband is an electrical engineer; he works in the field of automation (designing robotic systems). He's been employed at the same business for 15 years now, but gets at least 2-4 serious job offers per month, both from local companies and companies outside our area. His area of specialty is in very, very high demand, which is great for us from a job security standpoint. His current employer works very hard to keep him happy, because they don't want to lose him to another company, which is also great - he gets big raises every year, 6 weeks of paid leave, a flexible work schedule, etc.

He loves what he does. Sometimes it is stressful (like last night when our entire family, including the kids, spent from 6-9 pm helping him work on a robot that was malfunctioning), but mostly he enjoys the creativity of it.

Oh, and he is 47 years old - not a new grad. So there are definitely jobs out there - more than the employers can fill.

 

[georgina]

I stayed out of my kids' choices of majors, only offering suggestions if they asked, which they really didn't. There are a lot of other resources out there, especially with the internet. One ended up with a double major including Econ and works for a major consulting firm. The work is varied and she likes it (and they apparently like her). Son is in the dreaded video game field, has been working steadily for 3 years but I do worry. It has always been his dream job. His company makes video gambling games which I hear are gaining in popularity right now. Last one also ended up in computer science (which surprised us) and had her pick of offers in Silicon Valley. I wouldn't be surprised if she worked 10 years or so and saved a lot of money, then quit to do something else. She's always wanted to do something to save the world.

Oh, and I was a chemical engineering major who hated my job!

 

[amberpi]

I graduated college and b school too young and stupid to have any clue what I wanted to do, right before I graduated with my MBA, I applied for a job I thought looked super cool as a research analyst with a consulting firm catering to the investment sector. I had no idea what it would lead to, how lucrative it would be, and how perfect it would be for me. Sometimes these things just happen. There are tons of great careers that don't have a definitive path, and that's ok.

 

[QueenIsabella]

DH and I are both nukes. I'm actually a SAHM, but my degree was electrical engineering, which is very math-oriented. I can't speak to job opportunities in other branches of engineering because I just don't know--I do know that some are very cyclical (petroleum is one). DH has a BSME and an MSME, and 30 years experience in the nuclear field. When he lost his job due to a plant closing in 2015, we were able to select from many job prospects. It made no sense for him to leave nuclear--it's lucrative and specialized, leaving would have meant a huge cut in pay--but he got inquiries from all over the country. Some of his work/training would do well in a number of industries. We were able to choose his new job, based on what was available in the area for our minor children.

I would say overall, DH is happy where he is now. He hasn't always been happy in his career, but it's generally been issues with management, not the career itself. He only travels for education at this point--again, not always true. With nuclear plants, there are periodic shutdowns which require lots of (paid!!!) overtime. Most engineers don't get paid overtime. My BIL, also an engineer, works with large turbines, and has had to travel overseas for fairly long stretches. In general, engineering is a good, solid career--not generally earth-shattering, in terms of excitement or salary, but steady and dependable.

As to your son, specifically--has he taken an interest test or something similar that might help clarify for him what he might like to do? I know it's tough with kids--you want to encourage, without sounding like you're pushing an agenda. My DD14 is super smart, very strong in math and science. But, she also loves a good, well-reasoned argument. Right now, she wants to be a lawyer. She starts HS in the fall, I'm secretly hoping that math and science suck her back in. She doesn't have the "engineering personality" that I mentioned on the other thread.