Source: Avatar project for DAK postponed indefinitely

[tjkraz]

Avatar had a lot of box office dollars, but is nowhere near the obsession HP is. People play quidditch, for crying out loud.

It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)

In addition to a lack of concept art I've heard there are 'creative differences' between imagineering and Cameron.

I think we've all heard variations of the same stories. What we don't know is:

1. Does a rift truly exist?
2. How serious is it?
3. Could it keep the parties from working together?

Disagreements happen all the time in the business world--particularly when creatives are involved. And Cameron already has a reputation for being difficult to work with.

That doesn't mean they won't ultimately find common ground and move forward.

 

[MJMcBride]

It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)



I think we've all heard variations of the same stories. What we don't know is:

1. Does a rift truly exist?
2. How serious is it?
3. Could it keep the parties from working together?

Disagreements happen all the time in the business world--particularly when creatives are involved. And Cameron already has a reputation for being difficult to work with.

That doesn't mean they won't ultimately find common ground and move forward.

I have to agree that Avatar doesnt resonate with people like HP and some other things (star wars, marvel)

It was visually stunning and thats what brought people to the movie. it also capitalized (heck started) the 3D thing

ultimately, the story itself was generally blah which means u r a lot less likely to have Avatar conventions years from now than HP ones. I just think in 5 years no one will care a bit about avatar

 

[tjkraz]

ultimately, the story itself was generally blah which means u r a lot less likely to have Avatar conventions years from now than HP ones. I just think in 5 years no one will care a bit about avatar

I'd put it more like 10 years if Cameron is planning the 2-3 sequels. They won't be done anytime soon.

That said, if the attractions are well done it doesn't really matter. Is anyone holding Twilight Zone conventions these days? How many people even know that Splash Mountain is a tie-in to Song of the South?

If Internet message boards had existed 25 years ago, we would have had this same discussion upon learning that Disney planned to theme major attractions around Twilight Zone and SotS. Seems a little foolish in retrospect, eh?

Personally I haven't watched the likes of Mary Poppins, Dumbo or Peter Pan in 20 years. Doesn't mean I turn my nose up to any of those films' content in the Disney parks.

 

[fuzzlekins]

It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)

The thing is though, for a movie that was so huge, the resounding comments I hear (when I hear anything at all) is that it was overrated or the person didn't like it. It seems that an extremely effective hype machine was created for that movie and it worked. People seemed to go out in droves to see it, but clearly an awful lot of people were less than impressed. Most telling to me though is that no one really seems to be thinking about or talking about Avatar. That to me says it's just not going to make a big cultural impact or stand the test of time. If Disney is after the HP effect, I think the should think about putting a large scale Star Wars land at HS. If ever there was a successful franchise with a rabid cult following, it would have to be SW. And I'm not even particularly a fan, but I would certainly go see that. There are so many creative possibilities there too. Imagine virtually flying a pod racer or grabbing a drink with some three-eyed animatronic aliens at the cantina or yet another classic Dumbo-esque kiddie ride fashioned after tie-fighters. The scenery, the characters ... the possibilities are endless. And goodness knows George Lucas has pimped those movies out as much as he can, so I'm sure he'd jump at the opportunity to collaborate on that.

 

[fuzzlekins]

That said, if the attractions are well done it doesn't really matter. Is anyone holding Twilight Zone conventions these days? How many people even know that Splash Mountain is a tie-in to Song of the South?

If Internet message boards had existed 25 years ago, we would have had this same discussion upon learning that Disney planned to theme major attractions around Twilight Zone and SotS. Seems a little foolish in retrospect, eh?

Personally I haven't watched the likes of Mary Poppins, Dumbo or Peter Pan in 20 years. Doesn't mean I turn my nose up to any of those films' content in the Disney parks.

But those are rides rather than entire sections of the park. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a great attraction can be just that and the theme becomes secondary, but I still think they could choose a better jumping off point.

I also think that Disney cartoons are pretty timeless. My daughter doesn't watch Snow White after Tangled and say, "I don't really like Snow White b/c it's so dated." I'm not sure Avatar will have that timeless quality. Very few live action films do. At the least, it's too soon to tell.

 

[tjkraz]

The thing is though, for a movie that was so huge, the resounding comments I hear (when I hear anything at all) is that it was overrated or the person didn't like it. It seems that an extremely effective hype machine was created for that movie and it worked. People seemed to go out in droves to see it, but clearly an awful lot of people were less than impressed.

Avatar has an 83% critic score and 92% reader score on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like a LOT of people were impressed.

Most telling to me though is that no one really seems to be thinking about or talking about Avatar.

Not unusual for a 3 year old film which hasn't seen any follow-up content. These days, hype doesn't usually happen on its own. It has to be manufactured.

If Disney is after the HP effect, I think the should think about putting a large scale Star Wars land at HS. If ever there was a successful franchise with a rabid cult following, it would have to be SW. And I'm not even particularly a fan, but I would certainly go see that. There are so many creative possibilities there too. Imagine virtually flying a pod racer or grabbing a drink with some three-eyed animatronic aliens at the cantina or yet another classic Dumbo-esque kiddie ride fashioned after tie-fighters. The scenery, the characters ... the possibilities are endless. And goodness knows George Lucas has pimped those movies out as much as he can, so I'm sure he'd jump at the opportunity to collaborate on that.

George Lucas doesn't do anything unless the price is right. And his relationship with Disney has often been strained.

I agree Star Wars would be a better property. And the mere fact that Disney would turn to Avatar suggests they have been unsuccessful in selling Lucas on an expansion. Either that or his terms are unreasonable. Occam's Razor.

 

[fuzzlekins]

Avatar has an 83% critic score and 92% reader score on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like a LOT of people were impressed.

I hear what you're saying but I have yet to hear anyone in real life say they loved the movie. It just seemed so artificially inflated, and seemed to just kind of die off abruptly in terms of the buzz. It just doesn't have the "feel" of a phenomenon the way HP did, or SW, or even Toy Story or Cars. I was shocked to hear anyone would want to center an attraction much less a whole land around Avatar. If they do it, I'm sure it'll be great b/c like I was just saying to my hubby, "Disney doesn't do anything half-***ed." (well, except their toys but that's another story)

 

[DizCaptain]

I liked Avatar... I mean the problem was that it got too hyped for its own good. I saw it a few times in theaters, and I think it really is a good movie. The problem is everyone feels the need to radicalize their opinion on it... Oh they might capitalize on it at a theme park? "Worst movie ever!" Or in the case of a fan... "Wow, I can't wait!". It all comes down to opinion, and a lot of people are still stuck in this wide hive agreement that despite seeing it and enjoying it, or just thinking so-so, they're turning that into a view that it wasn't a good movie at all.

I'm not saying I'm excited for Avatarland or anything, but I think it'd be nice even if it doesn't really have a place in Animal Kingdom... It'd definitely increase my time spent at that park if its done well. That said, I am still a proponent for Beastly Kingdom, that's still on the to-do list for me.

 

[RevKjb]

What is needed is the originally planned Beastly Kingdom!

 

[elaine amj]

Have u guys looked at the international numbers for Avatar yet? It did ridiculously well around the globe. WDW is working hard to expand international visitation and Avatarland is just the property that resonates easily to an international audience. I don't follow a lot of Disney rumors and news but I think this is a very smart move if they can execute it as well as Carsland.

 

[aan1701]

I don't care what a movie gets on Rotten Tomato's or how well it did at the box office. I thought Avatar sucked. I personally do not know one person who did like the movie. Same goes for the Avengers. I too thought that movie sucked and just like Avatar, I will not travel across the country to see it. I can say the same about HP. I am not a fan of HP either, but HP is %10000000 more interesting than Avatar. Like some have pointed out, it was all hype but when you look at it, it's no different than when the Rebels landed on Endor in Return of the Jedi. It was the big bad, technologically advanced people thinking they can over run the primaries. Been there done that enough. So WDI please come up with something original and not rip off of some other thing. Thank you.

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[pilferk]

Check my original comment. (Post #2)

I saw it..but figured I'd point out, specifically, why.

 

[pilferk]

Avatar had a lot of box office dollars, but is nowhere near the obsession HP is. People play quidditch, for crying out loud.

In addition to a lack of concept art I've heard there are 'creative differences' between imagineering and Cameron.

The thing is: I've heard about the same creative differences. But can't find a quote, source, or even anonymous posting from someone "in the know" indicating it.

Just the actual words.

Which makes me wonder if it's true, or if it's unfounded internet speculation that's getting printed in various places.

 

[CandyMandy]

It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

And to be objective, the gross is absolutely meaningless because of inlfation. Gone With The Wind is still the biggest box office success in film history (counted by the meaningful metric of the number of tickets sold) by a massive margin - a particularly impressive feat given it is not a franchise like Harry Potter or Star Wars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSEVyzKmlyU

As for the yet to show anything new Avatar "franchise", it really remains to be seen whether it has the legs of the successful ones mentioned above. I and many others are skepitical that the characters and backstories in Avatar are robust enough to maintain ongoing, passionate interest.

 

[tjkraz]

And to be objective, the gross is absolutely meaningless because of inlfation.

"Absolutely meaningless"?

If you want to adjust for inflation, Avatar is #14 all time, ahead of Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park, Dark Knight, Avengers, Ghostbusters, POTC, Lord of the Rings, Transformers and every Disney / Pixar animated film from the last 50 years.

As for the yet to show anything new Avatar "franchise", it really remains to be seen whether it has the legs of the successful ones mentioned above. I and many others are skepitical that the characters and backstories in Avatar are robust enough to maintain ongoing, passionate interest.

I agree...it's a risk. But it's also a risk with tremendous upside if done correctly. James Cameron has a virtually flawless track record in terms of the pictures he has directed. Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar. All critical and commercial successes. If there's a guy to gamble on, he's a pretty good choice.

Overall, I think the reaction from the Disney fan community may speak to the value Disney sees in Avatar. Building attractions themed to Wall-E, Incredibles, Tron, princesses & pirates is just more of the same-ole, same-ole. They aren't reaching a new audience by leveraging those internal IPs.

Judging by many forum posts, there is a low intersection between Disney fans and Avatar fans. No great surprise. But that alone doesn't make Avatar / Cameron a bad move.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

♫ Hallelujah ♫


♫ Hallelujah ♫


♫ Hal-le-lu-jah !!! ♫

 

[aan1701]

But that alone doesn't make Avatar / Cameron a bad move.

What makes it a bad movie is the story, or the lack of one. Same ole, same ole. I will not argue that Cameron is a excellent filmmaker, he is, just had a three hour dud with this. That's all. If WDI really wants to look into a franchise with legs, (sorry Star Wars fans) hit up Paramount to do a whole area with Star Trek. That has been around for almost 45 years and still going strong. I would fly cross country for that.

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[MJMcBride]

hmmmmm

Middle Earth would make a much better land

 

[MJMcBride]

its too bad narnia didnt do that well

that would have made a nice Beastly Kingdom

 

[fuzzlekins]

hmmmmm

Middle Earth would make a much better land

I would love, love, love that, but somehow I don't think it would have the overall appeal or longevity of Star Wars. People talked about SW in the 70s and still watched it and talked about it and passed it onto their kids until they came out with the prequels ... and it's still going. Plus Disney already has a relationship of some kind there. They spent the money/effort to redo Star Tours and they have Star Wars weekends so they've gotta see value in that franchise.

While I think Star Trek has a diehard cult-like following, I don't think it has the more general appeal of SW. Kids today are enjoying SW, but I don't a single kids who has even heard of ST. Incidentally, I'm not even a SW fan. LOL