Sort of a S/O. How much do you think "helping" your children is actually "helping?"

[disykat]

Reading this thread has convinced me even more that giving your kids a "go to" attitude is the best gift you can give them. My parents didn't believe in letting me think it was harder for me than for other people. It was all about how was I going to make it work.

I'm kind of a believer in the "I walked two miles uphill in the snow to school so get off your butt and stop feeling sorry for yourself" form of parenting. While I may use gentler language, the goal of getting my kids to be proactive in seeking solutions to life's problems is the same.

 

[firefly_ris]

I think online classes sound crushingly depressing, commuting is bad enough when all of your friends leave, who would you even socialize with. It’s rare that any of my kids ever go a day without being with friends, I know some are different.

Meh. I commuted to my college and never lived there. I don't feel I missed out on anything. I'm a bit more introverted, could care less about partying or whatever, so just the bit of socializing during class was enough, plus one semester I took a class on how to referee various sports (to fulfill some physical ed credit needed), and we were required to ref and score a certain number of intramural sports. This is where I met my husband, who was teaching the class at the time. So, I don't think I missed much. Everyone's different, but spending a ton of extra of my parents' money just to live on or near a campus wasn't on my radar. Plus I was a transfer anyway as I had gone to community college for 2 years first.

This brings up a good point: from what distance are people willing to, or not willing to, commute?

I've seen people here say they have a university near their homes that they can walk to.

Some people say 30 minutes is reasonable.

I commuted from a suburb north of Baltimore City to UMBC (which is right by BWI Airport) every day, sometimes twice a day, down I-95S, depending on my class schedule that semester. It was about 28 miles each way. On a well scheduled, non-rush hour time I could make it there in 30 minutes. On a poorly scheduled/bad traffic, it could sometimes take me an hour and a half. I was driving a car that no longer shifted into 4th gear, so I was also driving 70mph in 3rd gear between 4 and 5 days a week, so I was like hemorrhaging gasoline, lol - fortunately gas at the time wasn't too expensive yet. I don't regret it.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

My kids are still young so I have a while before they will need to be thinking about college. I really don't know for sure what we will or won't help out with, but any help will likely be only after smart financial choices about where to go, them working and saving towards at least some of it, exhausting all scholarship opportunities, etc.

We both grew up fairly poor and knew there was no chance of our parents helping us with college. I took dual enrollment classes my sophomore and junior years of hs, then was able to skip my senior year to attend college full time. I paid for all of that myself (and this was 2007, so not that drastic of an economic change to now), working 3 jobs to do so since I couldn't qualify for financial aid since I technically didn't graduate hs until after that first full year of college.

DH and I ended up both joining the military where we met, married, had our first kid, and got out when I was 21 and he was 23. Then we used the education benefits we'd earned for me to finish my BA (all of my dual enrollment and credits from 3 different out-of-state colleges transferred, though I know it may not work for everyone) and he went to a trade school, while working and raising a family. None of it was easy and there were times when we lived off pb&j or counted out toilet paper squares. We shared a cheap $200 laptop, had a roommate for some of the time to lower costs (even though we were married with a kid), didn't own smart phones until 2 years ago, and also never owned a vehicle less than 15 years old until a couple years ago. It wasn't ever easy, but we managed and I don't regret our parents not being able to help us. I think knowing our parents couldn't help us financially with things and give us a safety net if we messed up made us both more resourceful and responsible with our decisions and spending.

I'd like to be able to help our kids financially with college, but I also think there's a lot of value in learning to be resourceful and self-reliant and I think there can be a fine line between helping and hindering. College is far more expensive now than 30 years ago, absolutely. More jobs require a college degree than in the past (which in some cases I think is because so many people now have degrees, why hire someone without one when you can get someone with one). But trade jobs are also in high demand, and not enough kids look into taking that route. There are also far more resources available to kids for college than there was in the past.

There are literally tens of thousands of scholarships available, yet many kids only look into/apply for the ones directly through their highschool or that are listed on their university's website. I actually researched this for a paper in college and spoke with the selectors for many non-university-affiliated scholarships who said that surprisingly very few kids apply and some have reduced their qualifications to win to try to entice more applicants (eliminating app fees, reducing essay requirements to a short paragraph, opening up eligibility to more fields of study, etc).

Many universities will give hiring preference to students and work around their class schedules. University of Michigan for instance is constantly posting jobs all over campus, offers free or reduced housing and meals to RAs and can't get enough people to apply. Housing is expensive in Ann Arbor, but you can still find shared apartments in the $500-$700 range close to campus (often including utilities and internet) and save on vehicle costs by using public transit. Books can often be purchased used online for far cheaper than what the school charges. Almost every college I've looked at also includes an "Incidentals" budget into their costs estimate (basically what they expect kids will spend for basic things but is not actually a cost of attendance owed to the school), which can easily be reduced or eliminated, depending on how frugal students are.

Sure, not every option works for everyone, but I don't think that many kids really take the time to research all of the possibilities that could make college cheaper.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

he does have two friends that are in the military full time and it doesn't sound like everyone that applies gets in automatically.

Recruitment needs fluctuate A LOT. There're only so many slots available so if there are a lot of enrollees at a particular time/small need, then recruiters may be more selective. This is most prone to happen during the summer and at the end of the month (more people enlist in the summer after graduating and recruitment needs met for the month are sometimes met early in the month).

 

[Disneylover99]

This brings up a good point: from what distance are people willing to, or not willing to, commute?

I've seen people here say they have a university near their homes that they can walk to.

Some people say 30 minutes is reasonable.

I know plenty of people who've commuted an hour or more. Right now DS's girlfriend has a 75 minute commute one way to school, longer with traffic. At one open house at college I met the parents of a girl who was going to be commuting by train from out of state, well over an hour and a half commute every day.

Millions of students commute.

So I think a lot of it depends.

My dad put all four of his kids through College/University. None of us lived on campus. Our commutes were 2-4 hours per day round trip. It wasn’t a big deal. I did a lot of reading/studying on the bus/subway.

 

[Colleen27]

My dad put all four of his kids through College/University. None of us lived on campus. Our commutes were 2-4 hours per day round trip. It wasn’t a big deal. I did a lot of reading/studying on the bus/subway.

I don't think it would be too bad if the commute was on public transit because at least you can use that time wisely, especially in the internet era. From our house, it is a 2.5-3 hour round trip to either of the nearest universities and you'd have to drive it - about 110 miles per day - because there is no public transportation. Not only is that a lot of wasted time that really cuts into time for studying, especially for students who also work, it is also a pretty significant transportation expense. Only one of the handful of kids we know who started out planning to commute to university from here has done it successfully. The others either made it through a year and then moved on campus or quit school to focus on working with vague plans to go back someday.

 

[Disneylover99]

I don't think it would be too bad if the commute was on public transit because at least you can use that time wisely, especially in the internet era. From our house, it is a 2.5-3 hour round trip to either of the nearest universities and you'd have to drive it - about 110 miles per day - because there is no public transportation. Not only is that a lot of wasted time that really cuts into time for studying, especially for students who also work, it is also a pretty significant transportation expense. Only one of the handful of kids we know who started out planning to commute to university from here has done it successfully. The others either made it through a year and then moved on campus or quit school to focus on working with vague plans to go back someday.

Yes. Anything over an hour each way is a tough commute in a car, especially in snowy winter weather.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

I don't think it would be too bad if the commute was on public transit because at least you can use that time wisely, especially in the internet era. From our house, it is a 2.5-3 hour round trip to either of the nearest universities and you'd have to drive it - about 110 miles per day - because there is no public transportation. Not only is that a lot of wasted time that really cuts into time for studying, especially for students who also work, it is also a pretty significant transportation expense. Only one of the handful of kids we know who started out planning to commute to university from here has done it successfully. The others either made it through a year and then moved on campus or quit school to focus on working with vague plans to go back someday.

Totally agree!! When I was writing earlier on this thread about what would have been an almost 4 hour round trip commute for my son, it never even entered my mind about it being on public transportation, but that wouldn't be an option where we live.

My experience is pretty much the same as you. I don't know of anyone who does that. I have been told here on this thread that kids do, and do it successfully, but, I have to admit my heart breaks for the poor kids that have a hard major AND drive 3-4 hours per day. I think that's a tough situation. Not impossible, but tough.

My son would have really struggled if he had to do that!

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Yes. Anything over an hour each way is a tough commute in a car, especially in snowy winter weather.

Yes, 3-4 hours in bad weather would be hard! My husband commutes an hour each way to work. His one hour easily doubles to two hours when its snowing. Doesn't even have to be a big storm either, might just be a couple inches, but his commute will double. We had a pretty easy winter here in NH this year, but there was roughly 20 or so days where his commute was long, because of weather.

Hard to imagine a one way commute of 2 hours being a viable solution to save money for a student. Its certainly not an option that we would have considered for either of our kids.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't think anyone needs to feel bad for commuters. For many, it's a choice, just like any other choice. Saving money may not be the only reason.

https://www.therapidian.org/7-lessons-commuting-college-home

 

[Floridaman999]

Typically what I see end up as an issue is the constant safety net, the swooping in and always helping in a variety of ways, etc. Knowing you have supportive parents is different than having your parents always there to catch you, always there to fix your problems. You gotta learn to fly at some point and some parents even as helpful as they want to be, as protective as they want to be end up clipping the wings.

This is exactly the error my wife and I found in ourselves and corrected quickly. We decided we needed to let them fail and experience those types of things on their own at times. They needed to learn how to rebuild or make different decisions based on results instead of mom and dad fixing it for them.

 

[china mom]

It is not my job to prepare the path for my child, it is my job to prepare my child for the path.

 

[lovin'fl]

We have 3 college kids. What we have noticed is that most parents pay for things like nice clothes and latest cellphones and earbuds, birthday parties, fancy prom stuff, spring break or beach weeks trips....all that stuff but not for college. We pay for our kids' college so once they graduate they can be on their own feet. DS-22 is about there and soon we will stop paying cellphone and car insurance and rent (he will be done with classes soon...he is getting an associates in hotel management while working full time at a hotel). DDs-20...one will have 3 more semesters and other is going for her MBA in a 5 year total program. They are just now moving off campus into house for the next 3 semesters. We will pay.

All 3 kids now have cars. DS's we bought used and he paid the down payment. We gave DDs our old car (was 6 years old with 100K miles on it) and made them both also pay the same down payment DS paid. They shared it for this past year (gave it to them halfway through freshman year of college). We are now giving them another of our cars (nice reliable one). This way they will have a good car for the farther drives (one DD is in teaching and has to go to schools all over, pretty far from campus...other DD is in Fire and EMT training that can be far away too). But they didn't have cars in HS.

They didn't get $1000 birthday or Xmas gifts or big fancy catered 16th or 18th birthday parties (like some of their friends). They got things they needed for gifts, like clothes or shoes or sports gear. They got cheaper cellphones and used them into the ground. They didn't go to concerts left and right or beach week or spring break (we do Disney and cruises a lot as a family). They didn't EVER get allowance. If they went to movies or met friends at Panera or some such, they had to pay themselves. If they needed money, they got a job. DS has worked from age 16 to now (at 22) but DDs haven't worked a lot (just a few months here and there...but they saved birthday and Xmas money from the relatives...one DD did work at McDs all last summer and full time so she had a good bit of spending $ for this year).

But I notice the parents these days prefer to pay for all the little things (like cellphones and birthday parties and movie or concert tickets) and skip paying the costly college bill. We took the less splurging fun times from age 12-22 but then once they hit the adult world after college they won't have such a struggle (to pay college debt). We have friends, age 45, who are still paying their college debt. It has been a struggle to pay that while raising a family. I don't want that for my kids.

As far as OP...if we won lotto, sure we'd use some to do nice things for our kids...and our parents and siblings. Why not? I wouldn't want to take care of them in such a way that they wouldn't need to work...unless we won an absurd amount like $460million. Then, it wouldn't matter. If we won a small amount like $100K, like I said in other thread, that would help us pay college tuition. If we won something like $4million, we'd just have a good retirement fund and continue life as we know it. DH would be able to retire on the younger side.

 

[Colleen27]

Yes, 3-4 hours in bad weather would be hard! My husband commutes an hour each way to work. His one hour easily doubles to two hours when its snowing. Doesn't even have to be a big storm either, might just be a couple inches, but his commute will double. We had a pretty easy winter here in NH this year, but there was roughly 20 or so days where his commute was long, because of weather.

Hard to imagine a one way commute of 2 hours being a viable solution to save money for a student. Its certainly not an option that we would have considered for either of our kids.

I wouldn't consider it for my kids either unless, as Pea suggested, it was done for reasons that weren't purely financial. I did it, and I know how it affected my academic performance. I also know how stressful the drive is, a good chunk of it on county roads that aren't at the top of the plowing priority list with the potential for winter weather through almost half of the academic year.

My son does commute to his school, but he's attending a trades program at the county community college so the commute is "only" an hour round-trip, and his program allows for concentrated blocks of study - he drives up for lab hours on two of the three days they're offered, and stays for the entire 4 hour block of time.

All 3 kids now have cars. DS's we bought used and he paid the down payment. We gave DDs our old car (was 6 years old with 100K miles on it) and made them both also pay the same down payment DS paid. They shared it for this past year (gave it to them halfway through freshman year of college). We are now giving them another of our cars (nice reliable one). This way they will have a good car for the farther drives (one DD is in teaching and has to go to schools all over, pretty far from campus...other DD is in Fire and EMT training that can be far away too). But they didn't have cars in HS.

They didn't get $1000 birthday nor Xmas gifts or big catered 16th or 18th birthday parties (like some of their friends). They got things they needed for gifts, like clothes or shoes or sports gear. They got cheaper cellphones and used them into the ground. They didn't go to concerts left and right or beach week or spring break (we do Disney and cruises a lot as a family). They didn't EVER get allowance. If they went to movies or met friends at Panera or some such, they had to pay themselves. If they needed money, they got a job. DS has worked from age 16 to now (at 22) but DDs haven't worked a lot (just a few months here and there...but they saved birthday and Xmas money from the relatives...one DD did work at McDs all last summer and full time so she had a good bit of spending $ for this year).

But I notice the parents these days prefer to pay for all the little things (like cellphones and birthday parties and movie or concert tickets) and skip paying the costly college bill. We took the less splurging fun times from age 12-22 but then once they hit the adult world after college they won't have such a struggle (to pay college debt). We have friends, age 45, who are still paying their college debt. It has been a struggle to pay that while raising a family. I don't want that for my kids.

I've noticed that too, particularly among the more affluent families in our circle, and I find it puzzling. DD attends a private high school and many of her friends have new or almost-new (1-2 year old) cars that they were given at 16, she/we have attended a few birthday parties that were held at banquet halls and are starting to get invitations for grad parties that will be very much the same, many of the families travel extensively both here and overseas, etc. It isn't everyone, by any stretch, but it is common enough that I worried a bit about sending her to a school where relative affluence is the norm, knowing how peer-oriented kids can be. But now that it is college decision season, some of those same kids are stressing out about the finances of their college choices and potential student loan debt. I don't know if it is that the parents don't think it is their job to pay for college or if they just plain didn't prioritize it or what.

It seems to me like a kid is better off without a sweet 16 that rivals most weddings I've been to if it means $10K less student loan debt, but I do try to remind myself that I don't know most of these families well and it may be their intention to pay those loans after the fact. One mom that I'm friendly with told me that's what she and her husband decided about college funding - let their son, who is extremely bright but very social and not always very focused, take out the loans. If he graduates with what they deem an acceptable academic record, they plan to pay the loans when he graduates. But they feel like the financial incentive will force him to take his studies more seriously.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

I don't think anyone needs to feel bad for commuters. For many, it's a choice, just like any other choice. Saving money may not be the only reason.

https://www.therapidian.org/7-lessons-commuting-college-home

Since, I was the one that said, "my heart breaks for the poor kids that have a hard major AND have to commute 3-4 hours a day", I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you say that no one "needs to feel bad for commuters"?

All of my posts about commuting, I was talking about my kids own specific situation, and our situation would require an almost 4 hour round trip commute. So yes, I would have felt bad for my kids if they had to do that for financial reasons. Additionally, I would feel bad for anyone that had to drive a 4 hour commute everyday whether it was for work or school. Heck, I feel sorry for my husband who does a two hour commute everyday!!! He doesn't complain about it and I don't lose sleep over it, but I know that he would LOVE to have an extra two hours at home everyday instead of sitting in his car!

Thanks for sharing the article as I read the whole thing. That girl was me 34 years ago!! I had no desire to go away to college! Hated the idea of it. But, I wanted to go to a two year school to be an occupational therapist assistant. 34 years ago my closest choices were the technical school in Claremont NH, which was 3 hours from my home, Becker Junior College in Worchester Mass. (I am pretty sure Becker is no longer a Junior college, but it was in 1985) and a junior college in Conn. that I no longer remember the name of. I choose Becker, which was 2 1/2 hours from our home. Commuting 5 hours a day wasn't an option, so I lived there. I really didn't want to and would have LOVED to have done what the girl in the article did.

I think what the author did was an awesome choice!! She does say in the article that she was "commuting to a nearby school", so I didn't get the impression that she was commuting 4 hours a day. The kids commuting four hours a day, that are forced into that decision because of finances, those are the folks I feel sorry for!

 

[billlaurie]

The topic of this thread is a tough one for me and very personal. I have been on both ends of the discussion. I have 5 children, 3 that I had very young from an early marriage right out of high school and 2 in my late 30s after lots of changes in my life, divorce, putting myself thru college and grad school, and remarriage. I don't worry about my older ones, all successful young professionals who mostly put themselves thru school and who always had lots of skin in the game because there was no other option. I bootstrapped and so did they. They are self-reliant and motivated. The younger ones, both older teens, had a much easier life, and I lose sleep over one of them practically every night. With them, I had a different financial situation and I tried to make up for the "harder" childhood that my older kids had. Parental guilt is strong and if you freely give, they will certainly let you, indefinitely. I have made it too easy for my younger ones, and I know everyone is different, but they haven't learned to do it for themselves. It is very, very hard to undo what is done.

 

[emmybee]

My parents couldn't afford to help me, but I know they would have if they had the means. I was lucky in that I was able to go to a private university with very little loans thanks to scholarships. My husband received no help from his parents for schooling, and they were definitely able to afford it. It was symptomatic of their relationship as a whole, and needless to say, it isn't on very close terms today. Happily, he finally got his degree in his late 30s and is currently working towards an advanced degree.

As a couple, we are much more well off than my parents were, that's for sure. We have our one girl, and we do give her experiences and opportunities we didn't have a children ourselves. Sometimes my husband grumbles about spoiling her, but I certainly don't envy my own child for the things I would have loved to have when I was her age! Growing up, school was considered my "job" and I imagine my own expectations will be the same for my girl, provided she remains an engaged student. As far as schooling, it seems that the middle class have it hardest when it comes to affording college, and I have no issues sending her to the local CC to get the first two years at a lower cost. I will do what I can so she doesn't get saddled with student debt. She might get my currently 11 yo car, but frankly, I'm too attached to it to give it up to a teen driver!

 

[goofy4tink]

It is not my job to prepare the path for my child, it is my job to prepare my child for the path.

This has been my mantra for quite awhile now. I have a 45 y/o ds, a 42 y/o dd and a 25 y/o dd. The two older kids did just fine....we didn't have a lot when they were growing up, dh and I divorced when they were young. So not a lot of 'extras'. However, when my 25 y/o came along, we were able to do more for her. She just automatically had nicer things, more things!!! We expected her to do stuff through school. She was in color guard/marching band all four years. She was in the theater group, she sang. She was in Girl Scouts for 13 years. She was active in our church. These were her 'jobs'. When it came time for college, we told her we would pay 100% for a state school. If she choose a private school, we would pay what a state school would have cost, the rest was up to her. She chose a private school. She went on to do the Disney College Program, then went p/t with Disney, then f/t. However, we found ourselves bailing her out constantly. She couldn't figure out how to budget, she made stupid choices. She is leaving Disney next month and coming home to start a new chapter in her life.
All I know is that what I 'thought' that was my mantra, it evidently was not. I 'thought' I was helping my child. Instead, I was enabling her. While other parents told their children how wonderful they were, I told my child the truth...'oh, that was a decent job honey'. She knew that if I praised something she did, it was really true. So, that was a good thing. But the enabling her failures in the past 3 years or so has had a detrimental effect. Take a page from my book...let them fail early on. I thought I had done that. But, after graduation, I stepped in too many times, thinking it would be just this once. It was not. Now? It's really hard to step back and let the pieces fall where they may.

 

[Owlpost23]

This has been my mantra for quite awhile now. I have a 45 y/o ds, a 42 y/o dd and a 25 y/o dd. The two older kids did just fine....we didn't have a lot when they were growing up, dh and I divorced when they were young. So not a lot of 'extras'. However, when my 25 y/o came along, we were able to do more for her. She just automatically had nicer things, more things!!! We expected her to do stuff through school. She was in color guard/marching band all four years. She was in the theater group, she sang. She was in Girl Scouts for 13 years. She was active in our church. These were her 'jobs'. When it came time for college, we told her we would pay 100% for a state school. If she choose a private school, we would pay what a state school would have cost, the rest was up to her. She chose a private school. She went on to do the Disney College Program, then went p/t with Disney, then f/t. However, we found ourselves bailing her out constantly. She couldn't figure out how to budget, she made stupid choices. She is leaving Disney next month and coming home to start a new chapter in her life.
All I know is that what I 'thought' that was my mantra, it evidently was not. I 'thought' I was helping my child. Instead, I was enabling her. While other parents told their children how wonderful they were, I told my child the truth...'oh, that was a decent job honey'. She knew that if I praised something she did, it was really true. So, that was a good thing. But the enabling her failures in the past 3 years or so has had a detrimental effect. Take a page from my book...let them fail early on. I thought I had done that. But, after graduation, I stepped in too many times, thinking it would be just this once. It was not. Now? It's really hard to step back and let the pieces fall where they may.

Appreciate your honesty.It's never easy.

 

[Dakota731]

I used to resent my parents for not paying for my college, clothes, car etc. However years later I realized what a favor they did me. I learned to work hard, budget my money, not spend beyond my means and appreciated things more when I had to buy them. I paid off my house very early and have a great retirement fund and now I trying to instill the same value in my kids. I'm sure my frugalness bugged them during their teen years, but they are all now successful young adults without debt and a great future ahead of them.