So my daughter just had her first plane ride to Disney

[sam_gordon]

A screaming one year old, who would have guessed ? Because the girl, who was apparently inconsolable is really just screaming her head off to secretly ruin all of the the other people's vacations. I'm sure they had it all planned in advance.

Holding crying against a one year old is tatamount to blaming the birds for singing.

Exactly. It isn't fun for any 1 year old to scream and cry. It's exhausting for everyone. Including the child. Having daggers thrown your way when you already feel terrible just makes the situation that much worse.

When I see a young child screaming and carrying on, instead of giving them the stare of disgust and the head shake of righteousness...I'll give them an "oh honey, I understand . Been there done that"

I agree 100%. HOWEVER, apparently the parents of this 1yo (at least the gm according to the poster) KNEW this was how she acted every time she travelled (car as well as plane). Do you really think, knowing the child will throw a fit for the entire ride, it's a good idea to put the child on any kind of public transportation?

 

[manhattanman]

I agree 100%. HOWEVER, apparently the parents of this 1yo (at least the gm according to the poster) KNEW this was how she acted every time she travelled (car as well as plane). Do you really think, knowing the child will throw a fit for the entire ride, it's a good idea to put the child on any kind of public transportation?

If you truly believe that you can predict what a one year old is going to do when faced with a brand new situation ( she was one, how much could she have flown?) then you are a far better parent than I was when my kids were one.

Its not like you can rationalize with a 1yo and they cant tell you why they are crying/upset.

I'm not saying that kids should be able to run free and I completely understand that when a child should be responsible for their own behaviour will vary from person to person and child to child, but neither of the two initial behaviours are all that strikingly uncommon to me and compared to the indignities I have had to suffer travelling with adults, wouldn't even make the top 50.

 

[sam_gordon]

If you truly believe that you can predict what a one year old is going to do when faced with a brand new situation ( she was one, how much could she have flown?) then you are a far better parent than I was when my kids were one.

Its not like you can rationalize with a 1yo and they cant tell you why they are crying/upset.

I'm not saying that kids should be able to run free and I completely understand that when a child should be responsible for their own behaviour will vary from person to person and child to child, but neither of the two initial behaviours are all that strikingly uncommon to me and compared to the indignities I have had to suffer travelling with adults, wouldn't even make the top 50.

I agree you can't predict how kids will act. However, if you read the post...

The grandmother even made the comment as they were taking their seats, that she felt sorry for everyone on the plane because the little girl was not a good traveler and always screamed anytime she flew but also screamed any time was placed in her car seat. She said the parents couldn't go anywhere with her.

Assuming this is accurate, the child's family can make a pretty good guess she was going to throw a fit. A child acting "good" in the car seat doesn't always mean they'll act "good" on a plane. However, screaming and throwing a fit on previous flights and in the car is a pretty good indicator the child doesn't travel well.

 

[manhattanman]

I agree you can't predict how kids will act. However, if you read the post...

Assuming this is accurate, the child's family can make a pretty good guess she was going to throw a fit. A child acting "good" in the car seat doesn't always mean they'll act "good" on a plane. However, screaming and throwing a fit on previous flights and in the car is a pretty good indicator the child doesn't travel well.

kids get colicy and then it goes away. I've seen kids that have no problem with car seats but get spooked in the plane ( I'm guessing the ear pressure thing and the roar of the engine). I've seen kids literally cry themselves out on a flight ( cry non stop for 10 minutes then get so tired that they stop and go to sleep). From the op's post the child was one, how many times do you think the child had flown ( especially considering their family drove instead)? If I were in their shoes I probably would have bit the bullet and taken the kid in the car, but I'm not the kids parent and adults make decisions every single day regarding their children that I would not. They rolled the dice and it did not turn out the way some people would like. Similar situations happen every single day.

How it is that some people can interpret a baby crying as a personal affront is something I will never understand.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I read an article a while back proposing a system whereby parents' credit cards are charged an extra fee by the airline if they refuse to address their children's disruptive behavior after being asked to by the flight attendant. If they put that into place, I would exclusively fly that airline for the rest of my life.

Interesting. Do you believe in strict enforcement of requiring obese people to purchase an extra seat?

And I'm curious how you think charging an parent for a child's poor behavior will help *you* out. I see how it would dissuade parents from flying that airline, but if that's the flight the family needs, the kid will still be there crying...

 

[sam_gordon]

kids get colicy and then it goes away. I've seen kids that have no problem with car seats but get spooked in the plane ( I'm guessing the ear pressure thing and the roar of the engine). I've seen kids literally cry themselves out on a flight ( cry non stop for 10 minutes then get so tired that they stop and go to sleep). From the op's post the child was one, how many times do you think the child had flown ( especially considering their family drove instead)? If I were in their shoes I probably would have bit the bullet and taken the kid in the car, but I'm not the kids parent and adults make decisions every single day regarding their children that I would not. They rolled the dice and it did not turn out the way some people would like. Similar situations happen every single day.

How it is that some people can interpret a baby crying as a personal affront is something I will never understand.

I don't think it's a personal affront, but I can say I think it was the wrong decision based on the baby's history (as related through the poster). If the parents have problems taking the baby ANYWHERE without problems, why would you think taking the baby on a plane would mean no problems?

It's also not like they didn't have another option. There was no reason they couldn't take the baby in the car with them. I could forgive them if they had purchased the tickets before the baby was born and guessed wrong. That doesn't seem to be the case though, does it?

 

[manhattanman]

I don't think it's a personal affront, but I can say I think it was the wrong decision based on the baby's history (as related through the poster). If the parents have problems taking the baby ANYWHERE without problems, why would you think taking the baby on a plane would mean no problems?

The child was one, how much history could she have had ? so in order to placate the sensibilities of adults ( some of whom were actually children themselves at one point) your going to essentially keep the kid locked up in the cellar, so as not to offend ?

I'm not saying it's not annoying, I'm not saying I would do it exactly as it was described but sometimes things don't go as planned and you chose something that you think is the best but it goes south. If you are in a theater or a restaurant and your child goes ballistic then the responsible thing to do is excuse yourself and remove the child from the situation. but that is not possible on a plane ( or a stuck subway).

I don't want this to turn into a thread about which way is better parenting or whether there are universal expectations of conduct for children, but it is not unexpected that a three year old might get fidgety after being forced to sit for 90 minutes or a 1 year old might cry.

 

[ZoeBell]

I don't think it's a personal affront, but I can say I think it was the wrong decision based on the baby's history (as related through the poster). If the parents have problems taking the baby ANYWHERE without problems, why would you think taking the baby on a plane would mean no problems?

It's also not like they didn't have another option. There was no reason they couldn't take the baby in the car with them. I could forgive them if they had purchased the tickets before the baby was born and guessed wrong. That doesn't seem to be the case though, does it?

But 10 hours screaming in car isn't what any parent wants their child to do. Not because the parents don't want to listen but that is an awful long time for a child at any age to cry.. So while flying may not be the ideal situation it might have been the better alternative.

 

[sam_gordon]

But 10 hours screaming in car isn't what any parent wants their child to do. Not because the parents don't want to listen but that is an awful long time for a child at any age to cry.. So while flying may not be the ideal situation it might have been the better alternative.

Based on what little we know, here's what I think the choices are (in order)
1) Don't go (or at least don't take the baby).
2) The baby rides in the car (leave when the baby goes down for the night).

I don't think a parent should KNOWINGLY inflict a screaming infant on others. That's what it sounds like happened here.

 

[maxiesmom]

But 10 hours screaming in car isn't what any parent wants their child to do. Not because the parents don't want to listen but that is an awful long time for a child at any age to cry.. So while flying may not be the ideal situation it might have been the better alternative.

Better for who? Not the other few hundred passengers on the airplane, that is for sure. So it comes down to the choice, do I upset my own child and my own family, or do I upset a lot of strangers. And they chose to upset strangers.

Remember the child who screamed the whole flight flew as a lap baby, sitting on grandma's lap, when it was known by that family that the child would scream unless it was her mom holding her. Two bad choices--the child didn't fly with mom, and the child flew as a lap baby without her mom. How about mom flies and holds the child? That at least had a chance of turning out ok. You don't make the choice to make everyone else miserable.

 

[ZoeBell]

Better for who? Not the other few hundred passengers on the airplane, that is for sure. So it comes down to the choice, do I upset my own child and my own family, or do I upset a lot of strangers. And they chose to upset strangers.

Remember the child who screamed the whole flight flew as a lap baby, sitting on grandma's lap, when it was known by that family that the child would scream unless it was her mom holding her. Two bad choices--the child didn't fly with mom, and the child flew as a lap baby without her mom. How about mom flies and holds the child? That at least had a chance of turning out ok. You don't make the choice to make everyone else miserable.

Best for MY child. Sometimes there maybe be things that a parent has to do for their child think might inconvenience others. Being miserable is also a choice that is made by the others around. I try not to like a screaming child or a rude adult ruin my flight, my day, my vacation or my life. But hey that's just me.

 

[maxiesmom]

Best for MY child. Sometimes there maybe be things that a parent has to do for their child think might inconvenience others. Being miserable is also a choice that is made by the others around. I try not to like a screaming child or a rude adult ruin my flight, my day, my vacation or my life. But hey that's just me.

How was it best for that child to be separated from her mom, who is apparently the only one who can offer her comfort? Sounds more like mom wanted a break, and didn't care who else suffered for it. It certainly wasn't best for the child.

 

[manhattanman]

Better for who? Not the other few hundred passengers on the airplane, that is for sure. So it comes down to the choice, do I upset my own child and my own family, or do I upset a lot of strangers. And they chose to upset strangers.

Remember the child who screamed the whole flight flew as a lap baby, sitting on grandma's lap, when it was known by that family that the child would scream unless it was her mom holding her. Two bad choices--the child didn't fly with mom, and the child flew as a lap baby without her mom. How about mom flies and holds the child? That at least had a chance of turning out ok. You don't make the choice to make everyone else miserable.

its a good think that 1 year old children's behaviors are completely fixed and not subject to change.

Because when I'm planning for a trip, the thing that is at the forefront of my mind is how can I ensure that overly sensitive faceless childphobic travelers are not inconvenienced by my child being a child.

I'm convinced that as everyone deplaned the grandma and grandpa got together and rubbed their hands together saying " exxxxxxcellent" as their plan to derail your vacation was clearly in full effect. I mean the nerve of a one year old having the temerity to cry and disturb the adults. Don't they see us playing words with friends and sudoku ? Have they no dececency ?

 

[manhattanman]

How was it best for that child to be separated from her mom, who is apparently the only one who can offer her comfort? Sounds more like mom wanted a break, and didn't care who else suffered for it. It certainly wasn't best for the child.

I am absolutely convinced that this was her plan all along. She's one of those types that derives an intense sense of pleasure and accomplishment from annoying people she does not know and likely will never meet by proxy using her screaming child. It's an epidemic I tell you.

Word on the street was that as the girl started to calm down, the grandma was pinching her to get her riled up again.

 

[sam_gordon]

its a good think that 1 year old children's behaviors are completely fixed and not subject to change.

So you really think that a child who:
a) has cried through other flights
b) cries when put in their car seat
c) can only be consoled by mom

Will all of a sudden change when:
a) put on a flight
b) separated from mom

And be peaceful?

I get that kids change and you can't accurately predict how a child will react in a given situation. A parent can even guess wrong. But I think these parents KNEW the child was going to scream through the trip (in the car or on the plane) and decided it was better the child screamed away from them.

 

[manhattanman]

So you really think that a child who:
a) has cried through other flights
b) cries when put in their car seat
c) can only be consoled by mom

Will all of a sudden change when:
a) put on a flight
b) separated from mom

And be peaceful?

I get that kids change and you can't accurately predict how a child will react in a given situation. A parent can even guess wrong. But I think these parents KNEW the child was going to scream through the trip (in the car or on the plane) and decided it was better the child screamed away from them.

I have no idea, do you ?

My life as a parent has been riddled by instances where i though my kids would act one way and they acted completely the opposite ( going both ways where I thought they would be well behaved and they werent and I though they would have troubles and they didnt). If kids are anything, its unpredictable.

You seem to be forgetting that the child in question is one. Trying to rationalize her behavior is a fool's errand. when my son was teething he screamed so long and so hard that he became flush and broke a sweat. if affected his breathing. If this is the same and the kid is going to do it in the plane for 90 minutes or in a car for 10 hours, for the sake of the child's well being I chose the latter. If this makes me an unfit parent in your eyes, that my friend is a cross i am more than willing to bear.

 

[ZoeBell]

So you really think that a child who:
a) has cried through other flights
b) cries when put in their car seat
c) can only be consoled by mom

Will all of a sudden change when:
a) put on a flight
b) separated from mom

And be peaceful?

I get that kids change and you can't accurately predict how a child will react in a given situation. A parent can even guess wrong. But I think these parents KNEW the child was going to scream through the trip (in the car or on the plane) and decided it was better the child screamed away from them.

No that's the whole point. You don't know how that child is going to behave. Sometimes you have to just deal.

Or even if you know they flight/trip is going to be hard, if you need to get from Point A to Point B you are still going to have to do it. A one year old baby or a 3 year old doesn't know the difference between getting on a plane for Grandpa's funeral and or going on vacation. If they are upset they are upset. No matter the reason they are on the plane.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have no idea, do you ?

My life as a parent has been riddled by instances where i though my kids would act one way and they acted completely the opposite ( going both ways where I thought they would be well behaved and they werent and I though they would have troubles and they didnt). If kids are anything, its unpredictable.

You seem to be forgetting that the child in question is one. Trying to rationalize her behavior is a fool's errand. when my son was teething he screamed so long and so hard that he became flush and broke a sweat. if affected his breathing. If this is the same and the kid is going to do it in the plane for 90 minutes or in a car for 10 hours, for the sake of the child's well being I chose the latter. If this makes me an unfit parent in your eyes, that my friend is a cross i am more than willing to bear.

If the baby is going to cry for 10 hours, it doesn't matter whether it's 10 hours in a car or 1 hour in the airport, 2 hours in the plane and 7 hours at the destination.

And why are you feeling so guilty? I never said they (or you) were unfit parents. I think the made the wrong choice. I've made plenty of wrong decisions as a parent. I'm sure I'll make more. But I have a hard time believing these parents DIDN'T think the baby would be screaming during the trip. And we're not talking about a 15 minute "fit". We're talking over TWO HOURS of being in an enclosed metal tube with a screaming infant.

 

[sam_gordon]

No that's the whole point. You don't know how that child is going to behave. Sometimes you have to just deal.

Or even if you know they flight/trip is going to be hard, if you need to get from Point A to Point B you are still going to have to do it. A one year old baby or a 3 year old doesn't know the difference between getting on a plane for Grandpa's funeral and or going on vacation. If they are upset they are upset. No matter the reason they are on the plane.

Funny, these parents chose to "deal" by letting others listen to/deal with the child.

 

[manhattanman]

We're talking over TWO HOURS of being in an enclosed metal tube with a screaming infant.

Oh the horrors ! there has to be something in the geneva convention about this.

But the buisnessman who is feeling a little under the weather with a scratch in his throat and a business meeting that he has to go to, gets on the plane and a whole bunch of passengers get sick, he gets a pass because, hey he wears a suit!

What I think people should do is figure out who these deadbeat parents are and send them all of the bills they have accrued for the hours and hours of therapy they must have had to endure to get though such a traumatic experience of actually having to witness a child being a child. Oh the humanity !