Snowflake children

[Hannathy]

Oh yes, I did laugh, but I covered my face with a book.

Oh I wouldn't have! I would have laughed right in front of her, any one that obsessed deserves being laughed at. Now if She had accidentally fell in I wouldn't have laughed or if I chuckled I would have behind my book but nah I would have laughed where she could see it.

 

[okeydokey]

Unfortunately the helicopter parents are the ones that are raising the children to believe that the rules that apply to others do not apply to themselves. These children grow up to be the adults who think the rules don't apply to them.

 

[penn19]

I think a lot of the time the hovering helicopter parent is the result of identifying way too much as <insert kid's name>'s parent instead of as a separate entity. How many times do you see people who self identify as "Jason's mom" or the "mom of three princesses" (not picking a board name but in their daily lives out in the real world) where in reality that is only one part of their overall identity. When people stop living their own lives and start to identify through their kids the normal lines get blurred and I think many times that is what causes the parent's to be overly protective and raise snowflake kids.

I never understand why anyone identifies themselves in relation to a 3rd party whether that be so and so's parent/spouse/sibling/child/ or anything else. It is as though they have done nothing in life outside of that relationship.

I see it at work all the time, mostly with moms. They brag about things their kids do as though they did it. No, you might have laid the ground work for them to excel at whatever they do but it was them who got on the honor roll, hit the game winning home run, graduated from college, passed the BAR exam, or whatever.

This is an observation I've had of people who fit the mold of helicopter parent or seem to be raising snowflake kids.

Thank you! I really thought I was the only one in the world who had this thought! I see it on Facebook ALL the time. I have taking to hiding "friends" posts because thats all you see in their status updates. Little Joey got straight A's, Little Joey hit a homerun. What did YOU do?

 

[FergieTCat]

Unfortunately the helicopter parents are the ones that are raising the children to believe that the rules that apply to others do not apply to themselves. These children grow up to be the adults who think the rules don't apply to them.

I have a friend like that. Her mother hovered her entire life and told her that the rules did not apply to her, since she was "special." My friend literally cannot keep a job because she is constantly doing whatever she pleases (arriving late, taking more than 1 hour for lunch, etc.) and then is shocked to discover that the rules do apply to her.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Yep, a "snowflake" in the making.

A *snowflake* child is the product of a helicopter parent. Nothing against the child, but something against the entitled parent who apparently wants to prolong the entitlement. The purpose of parenting should be to develop a child to make independent (good) decisions at the age of 18 or so, to live life as a functioning adult without parental involvement.

Many potential *snowflakes* rebel against suffocating helicopter parents. Good for them.

Now, let us rediscuss, "snowflakes" and "tissues" and "teacups" and "helicopters" and "lawnmowers" and "Black Hawks."

These terms go way beyond the DIS. They are now very much grad school terminology.

That is actually NOT how I know the terms and see them used (generally--they tend to get mixed up here on the DIS). My understanding is that helicopter parents tend to do far too much FOR their children. Either out of misguided love, or fear, or some belief that their children are not that capable, or because they think it makes them look like a good parent (or who knows what other reason) they hover around their children and do all the work for them so that the child never really learns and grows. On the other hand, parents raising snowflakes treat the child in such a way as to give the child the belief that s/he is better and more important than everyone else and that every day rules should not apply to him/her. Some parents are both helicopter and snowflake makers, but many are just one or the other.

For example, lets pretend we have a family with a 5 year old child at one of those steak houses where you get buckets of peanuts on the table. Here are two very different scenarios:

Helicopter scenario: Mommy (or Daddy, but I will stick with all female genders to make my typing life easier) lifts little future teacup (FT) into her seat rather than "risk" FT getting hurt climbing into the booth. Mommy shells peanuts for FT. Mommy orders for FT because FT is "too shy" to speak to the waiter herself. When FT needs to go to the bathroom, Mommy escorts her, helps her with her clothes (not because FT has any motor skill issues but because Mommy has never taught FT how to do it herself) and hold her up to wash her hands (even though she can reach the sink) and helps her scrub them well enough then opens the door FOR FT with a paper towel before returning to the seat and lifting FT up again. When dinner arrives Mommy cuts all of FTs food into bite sized pieces, tucks a napkin in at her chin and hold the drink glass for her to avoid spills.
FT may well be very polite and sweet and in no way distrub any other diners.


Snowflake Scenario: Little Snowy climbs into her seat over the back of the booth by first climbing into the (occupied!) booth next to it. Mommy thinks this is so adorable--see how strong and active and outgoing Snowy is?. Snowy loudly shots "BAM!" while smashing the peanut shells. Again, Mommy thinks this is supremely cute. When it is time to order Snowy shows off by telling the waiter 50 odd facts that have nothing to do with the menu before finally ordering--holding up everyone else in the section during a busy Friday night. Mommy praises her daughter for being so smart and outgoing. When Snowy has to use the restroom Mommy goes with her to tell all those mean ladies who are waiting in line that Snowy is only 5 and has to go right away without waiting. When the food comes Snowy Shouts loudly to her parents about what she does and does not like and dumps the side dishes she dislikes onto the table and floor. Mommy complains that the waiter should have told Snowy that the pasta would have green herbs on top of it. Snowy enjoys making lost of bubbles in her drink (loudly) and flicking the liquid off the end of the straw at the patrons near her. Mommy is mad at the mean people who keep giving Snowy nasty looks when droplets of milk/spit land on them.

As the FT grows Mommy will likely be way too involved with her social life and her school life. Mommy will see herself as always being on top of things but she will really always be interfering with things. If FT breaks a rule at school Mommy is likely to call or email the teacher herself (even in highs school) to explain the issue instead of just giving FT some ideas of how she could handle it herself. If FT argues with another kid Mommy will be on the phone with the child's mother figuring out how they can get the kids back in a good place. When FT wants to babysit, Mommy will line up the jobs for her. Mommy will remind FT of due dates for every assignment, make sure FT always has everything she needs (AND RUN FORGOTTEN ITEMS TO HER always NO MATTER WHAT, Etc.)..

As Snowy grows Mommy will continue to defend her atrocious behaviour as sweet/adorable/precocious/special. . . When Snowy breaks a rule at school Mommy will be in the principal's office explaining why Snowy should not be punished. If she argues with a friend Mommy will tell her she is so much better than her friends that they are just jealous of her. When Snowy wants to babysit, Mommy will tell her she is too good to take care of other kids all day and give her a huge allowance instead (or set her up "working" for Mommy at an easy job for huge pay to feel good about earning her way). When Snowy forgets a due date or material for class Mommy will call the teacher to tell them they have to understand that Snowy just has too much on her plate and they cannot penalize her.

I think a lot of the time the hovering helicopter parent is the result of identifying way too much as <insert kid's name>'s parent instead of as a separate entity. How many times do you see people who self identify as "Jason's mom" or the "mom of three princesses" (not picking a board name but in their daily lives out in the real world) where in reality that is only one part of their overall identity. When people stop living their own lives and start to identify through their kids the normal lines get blurred and I think many times that is what causes the parent's to be overly protective and raise snowflake kids.

I never understand why anyone identifies themselves in relation to a 3rd party whether that be so and so's parent/spouse/sibling/child/ or anything else. It is as though they have done nothing in life outside of that relationship.

I see it at work all the time, mostly with moms. They brag about things their kids do as though they did it. No, you might have laid the ground work for them to excel at whatever they do but it was them who got on the honor roll, hit the game winning home run, graduated from college, passed the BAR exam, or whatever.

This is an observation I've had of people who fit the mold of helicopter parent or seem to be raising snowflake kids.

I can understand picking such a name on a parenting forum (since that is what the forum is about) and then even keeping it as one spreads out in the internet. Sort of like I am still NHDisneylover even though I have not lived in NH in almost 2 years (when I registered it was just for a cruise meet thread and I was just trying to come up with something for that--it is Disney related because this is a Disney board). Now I have that same name in two other places just because it has become my internet ID. I wish I had realized when I first registered that I would be more and more drawn into the internet and then I would have chosen something more ME.
However, I agree I have never understood people who really do seem to identify that way all the time--they have XXX's mom as emails, as licence plates, etc. What do they do and WHO are they when their kids grow up?

 

[simba20]

However, I agree I have never understood people who really do seem to identify that way all the time--they have XXX's mom as emails, as licence plates, etc. What do they do and WHO are they when their kids grow up?

My friend, who is a first time mom, said it best when her son was born. "John is part of the Smith family, we are not the John family." That is something I always keep in mind and pass on to my friends when they have their first child. Espcially when they worry about having to keep baby on a schedule and it cramps their going out plans "Oh we have to be home by 7 for Susie's bedtime." I do understand about keeping your child on a somewhat consistent schedule, but to live your live around what Susie has to have/do and not allow for flexibility....?

 

[rie'smom]

Helicopter parents may raise snowflakes but the two do not always go hand in hand.
Some snowflakes are born that way and demand their insecure parents treat them in a certain way. So I guess sometimes snowflakes train their parents instead of the other way round.

 

[NHdisneylover]

My friend, who is a first time mom, said it best when her son was born. "John is part of the Smith family, we are not the John family." That is something I always keep in mind and pass on to my friends when they have their first child. Espcially when they worry about having to keep baby on a schedule and it cramps their going out plans "Oh we have to be home by 7 for Susie's bedtime." I do understand about keeping your child on a somewhat consistent schedule, but to live your live around what Susie has to have/do and not allow for flexibility....?

I love your friend's attitude

 

[goofyernmost]

Helicopter parents may raise snowflakes but the two do not always go hand in hand.
Some snowflakes are born that way and demand their insecure parents treat them in a certain way. So I guess sometimes snowflakes train their parents instead of the other way round.

I have to disagree with that to some extent. I will agree that children have a way of demanding what they want, but I believe that to be universal. ALL children are born that way...it's a survival instinct. Unfortunately their survival instinct isn't attached to a logic instinct or ability to understand what truly is "good" for them.

It is the parents job to guide them and show them the way. If the parent is totally set on "being their friend" and not their parent then you see snowflakes.

When I see criticism because some parent (OMG) raised their voice to a child in an effort to show an otherwise mule headed kid the error of their ways, I wonder just exactly how you teach children proper behavior without a "penalty clause incorporated someplace.

Discipline is a difficult thing to do when you love and care about a child but it is IMHO absolutely necessary to establish the boundaries that they will desperately need later in life.

So when I hear a parent tell their child "now dear you shouldn't make that loud screeching noise because it isn't nice" instead of a quick "knock it off before I give you something to yell about" I see a snowstorm starting.

 

[Disney Doll]

I swear, goofyer, you are my father.

 

[jamimb]

That is actually NOT how I know the terms and see them used (generally--they tend to get mixed up here on the DIS). My understanding is that helicopter parents tend to do far too much FOR their children. Either out of misguided love, or fear, or some belief that their children are not that capable, or because they think it makes them look like a good parent (or who knows what other reason) they hover around their children and do all the work for them so that the child never really learns and grows. On the other hand, parents raising snowflakes treat the child in such a way as to give the child the belief that s/he is better and more important than everyone else and that every day rules should not apply to him/her. Some parents are both helicopter and snowflake makers, but many are just one or the other.

For example, lets pretend we have a family with a 5 year old child at one of those steak houses where you get buckets of peanuts on the table. Here are two very different scenarios:

Helicopter scenario: Mommy (or Daddy, but I will stick with all female genders to make my typing life easier) lifts little future teacup (FT) into her seat rather than "risk" FT getting hurt climbing into the booth. Mommy shells peanuts for FT. Mommy orders for FT because FT is "too shy" to speak to the waiter herself. When FT needs to go to the bathroom, Mommy escorts her, helps her with her clothes (not because FT has any motor skill issues but because Mommy has never taught FT how to do it herself) and hold her up to wash her hands (even though she can reach the sink) and helps her scrub them well enough then opens the door FOR FT with a paper towel before returning to the seat and lifting FT up again. When dinner arrives Mommy cuts all of FTs food into bite sized pieces, tucks a napkin in at her chin and hold the drink glass for her to avoid spills.
FT may well be very polite and sweet and in no way distrub any other diners.


Snowflake Scenario: Little Snowy climbs into her seat over the back of the booth by first climbing into the (occupied!) booth next to it. Mommy thinks this is so adorable--see how strong and active and outgoing Snowy is?. Snowy loudly shots "BAM!" while smashing the peanut shells. Again, Mommy thinks this is supremely cute. When it is time to order Snowy shows off by telling the waiter 50 odd facts that have nothing to do with the menu before finally ordering--holding up everyone else in the section during a busy Friday night. Mommy praises her daughter for being so smart and outgoing. When Snowy has to use the restroom Mommy goes with her to tell all those mean ladies who are waiting in line that Snowy is only 5 and has to go right away without waiting. When the food comes Snowy Shouts loudly to her parents about what she does and does not like and dumps the side dishes she dislikes onto the table and floor. Mommy complains that the waiter should have told Snowy that the pasta would have green herbs on top of it. Snowy enjoys making lost of bubbles in her drink (loudly) and flicking the liquid off the end of the straw at the patrons near her. Mommy is mad at the mean people who keep giving Snowy nasty looks when droplets of milk/spit land on them.

As the FT grows Mommy will likely be way too involved with her social life and her school life. Mommy will see herself as always being on top of things but she will really always be interfering with things. If FT breaks a rule at school Mommy is likely to call or email the teacher herself (even in highs school) to explain the issue instead of just giving FT some ideas of how she could handle it herself. If FT argues with another kid Mommy will be on the phone with the child's mother figuring out how they can get the kids back in a good place. When FT wants to babysit, Mommy will line up the jobs for her. Mommy will remind FT of due dates for every assignment, make sure FT always has everything she needs (AND RUN FORGOTTEN ITEMS TO HER always NO MATTER WHAT, Etc.)..

As Snowy grows Mommy will continue to defend her atrocious behaviour as sweet/adorable/precocious/special. . . When Snowy breaks a rule at school Mommy will be in the principal's office explaining why Snowy should not be punished. If she argues with a friend Mommy will tell her she is so much better than her friends that they are just jealous of her. When Snowy wants to babysit, Mommy will tell her she is too good to take care of other kids all day and give her a huge allowance instead (or set her up "working" for Mommy at an easy job for huge pay to feel good about earning her way). When Snowy forgets a due date or material for class Mommy will call the teacher to tell them they have to understand that Snowy just has too much on her plate and they cannot penalize her.


I can understand picking such a name on a parenting forum (since that is what the forum is about) and then even keeping it as one spreads out in the internet. Sort of like I am still NHDisneylover even though I have not lived in NH in almost 2 years (when I registered it was just for a cruise meet thread and I was just trying to come up with something for that--it is Disney related because this is a Disney board). Now I have that same name in two other places just because it has become my internet ID. I wish I had realized when I first registered that I would be more and more drawn into the internet and then I would have chosen something more ME.
However, I agree I have never understood people who really do seem to identify that way all the time--they have XXX's mom as emails, as licence plates, etc. What do they do and WHO are they when their kids grow up?

The last part of your post is such a pet peeve of mine. It especially bothers me when people use a pic of their kids (just their kids) as their Facebook profile pic. I love my girls fiercely but I try not to let them define who I am as an individual.

 

[Magpie]

The last part of your post is such a pet peeve of mine. It especially bothers me when people use a pic of their kids (just their kids) as their Facebook profile pic. I love my girls fiercely but I try not to let them define who I am as an individual.

<------ That's my son over there! He doesn't define me, heck, he doesn't even look like that any more as he's about six years older than he was when that pic was taken. It just seemed like a good pic for a Disney board and seeing his cute little face makes me smile.

I don't mind saying that mothering was my full time job for quite awhile. I even homeschooled the kids. They were biggest part of my life for a long time and I devoted most of my energies to them. But they're teenagers now and doing their own thing, and that phase of my life has passed. Now I'm all about my writing.

So I don't think there's anything wrong with being a full-time Mommy, just so long as you're aware that the job won't last forever. By the time they're 12, you're only working part-time, and by 18 you should be retired to nothing more than an advisory role.

 

[sbell111]

Unfortunately the helicopter parents are the ones that are raising the children to believe that the rules that apply to others do not apply to themselves. These children grow up to be the adults who think the rules don't apply to them.

So basically you are saying that they'll fit in fine here as adults.

 

[Christopher Robin]

So basically you are saying that they'll fit in fine here as adults.

Had to LOL at this one.

 

[FireDancer]

So I don't think there's anything wrong with being a full-time Mommy, just so long as you're aware that the job won't last forever. By the time they're 12, you're only working part-time, and by 18 you should be retired to nothing more than an advisory role.

A full time job also doesn't define you whether it is a stay at home mom or the CEO of Microsoft. There is a difference between being a full time mom and letting it define or even dominate your identity. I have a full time job and while that forms a part of who and what I am that is also only one small part.

 

[Nik's Mom]

Ok, I admit that I am Nik's Mom only because he was sitting on my lap when I registered here. I'm so not creative when it comes to user names. Being a mom and a wife is part of who I am, but I am much more than that.

Oh, and I swear that isn't my kid in the avatar picture. Dang it! I should have used Keith Moon as my Dis name!

 

[Magpie]

A full time job also doesn't define you whether it is a stay at home mom or the CEO of Microsoft. There is a difference between being a full time mom and letting it define or even dominate your identity. I have a full time job and while that forms a part of who and what I am that is also only one small part.

I'm not sure I really see the difference between being "So-and-so's Mom" and "Microsoft's CEO", I mean as far as introductions go. I know plenty of people who, when they earned their doctoral degree, stuck Dr. all over their correspondence. Doesn't that define them?

Heck, we just had some new neighbours move in down the street. I told my husband this morning that I've forgotten their names. My husband said, "That's okay, we don't have to remember their names. We can just call them Suzie's mommy and daddy. It's close enough!"

He's right, too... There's lots of interesting lovely people on our street, but I'm terrible with names and mostly I only remember them as "so-and-so's mom or dad". Of course, what's really sad is that sometimes I only remember their dog's name...

 

[Nik's Mom]

I'm not sure I really see the difference between being "So-and-so's Mom" and "Microsoft's CEO", I mean as far as introductions go. I know plenty of people who, when they earned their doctoral degree, stuck Dr. all over their correspondence. Doesn't that define them?

Heck, we just had some new neighbours move in down the street. I told my husband this morning that I've forgotten their names. My husband said, "That's okay, we don't have to remember their names. We can just call them Suzie's mommy and daddy. It's close enough!"

He's right, too... There's lots of interesting lovely people on our street, but I'm terrible with names and mostly I only remember them as "so-and-so's mom or dad". Of course, what's really sad is that sometimes I only remember their dog's name...

I agree. And I'm bad with names too.

 

[Scurvy]

I think a lot of the time the hovering helicopter parent is the result of identifying way too much as <insert kid's name>'s parent instead of as a separate entity. How many times do you see people who self identify as "Jason's mom" or the "mom of three princesses" (not picking a board name but in their daily lives out in the real world) where in reality that is only one part of their overall identity. When people stop living their own lives and start to identify through their kids the normal lines get blurred and I think many times that is what causes the parent's to be overly protective and raise snowflake kids.

I never understand why anyone identifies themselves in relation to a 3rd party whether that be so and so's parent/spouse/sibling/child/ or anything else. It is as though they have done nothing in life outside of that relationship.

I see it at work all the time, mostly with moms. They brag about things their kids do as though they did it. No, you might have laid the ground work for them to excel at whatever they do but it was them who got on the honor roll, hit the game winning home run, graduated from college, passed the BAR exam, or whatever.

This is an observation I've had of people who fit the mold of helicopter parent or seem to be raising snowflake kids.

I can understand why people introduce themselves as "So-and-so's Mom" under certain circumstances. At school events, many of the parents are already familiar with most of the kids but not with each other, so identifying yourself as the parent of a particular kid makes sense to me. At school events I introduce myself as "Scurvy, Son's mom." (Similarly, at my husband's work events I start out as "Scurvy, Husband's wife.") What drives me crazy is that some people just can't move past that to the point where they are also an individual. They just stay So-and-so's Mom (or wife, or whatever). My son just started a new school and since the football season has started I spend lots of time getting to know the other band parents. I hate sitting near the other moms because most of them are incapable of talking about anything but their kids. If you start talking about interests or hobbies they start in with "We spend a lot of time doing X because Susie enjoys it, and then John likes Y. . .". If the subject of music comes up, they all love the Jonas Brothers or Justin Bieber because that's what the kids listen to. It's like once they had kids they just completely stopped having their own interests and started living only through their kids. The dads tend to be better, thankfully.

I do think this contributes to Snowflake syndrome. I love what Simba20 said about "John is part of the Smith family, we are not the John family." I think some moms forget that, and once the kids come along they aren't individuals any longer, they are just part of the John or Susie family. It isn't Susie or John's fault, but when the parents make their world completely revolve around the children then it makes sense that the kids are going to be used to that and expect it from the rest of the world as well. Of course Susie and John are important parts of the Smith family, but so are the parents. If Susie and John grow up believing they are more important than everybody else, including their own parents, you can't really blame them for expecting others to see them that way as well. I think parents who live that way are really doing their kids a disservice. I think it's also the main reason for Helicopter Parenting. When you stop being an individual and just live for (and through) your kids, you're probably much more likely than other parents to hang on way too long and do everything for your kids, because once you stop that what do you have left?

 

[FireDancer]

I can understand why people introduce themselves as "So-and-so's Mom" under certain circumstances. At school events, many of the parents are already familiar with most of the kids but not with each other, so identifying yourself as the parent of a particular kid makes sense to me. At school events I introduce myself as "Scurvy, Son's mom." (Similarly, at my husband's work events I start out as "Scurvy, Husband's wife.") What drives me crazy is that some people just can't move past that to the point where they are also an individual. They just stay So-and-so's Mom (or wife, or whatever). My son just started a new school and since the football season has started I spend lots of time getting to know the other band parents. I hate sitting near the other moms because most of them are incapable of talking about anything but their kids. If you start talking about interests or hobbies they start in with "We spend a lot of time doing X because Susie enjoys it, and then John likes Y. . .". If the subject of music comes up, they all love the Jonas Brothers or Justin Bieber because that's what the kids listen to. It's like once they had kids they just completely stopped having their own interests and started living only through their kids. The dads tend to be better, thankfully.

Absolutely. When you are at a school event you are "Scuvy, son's mom". Introducing yourself first and your relationship to your son second is one key and the fact you are there in the capacity of your relationship to your son is another. As you said though, when you are out in the world in what should be a different capacity then you should just be Scurvy.

In my example about being CEO of Microsoft of course when you are doing a keynote at CES, giving a press conference about last quarter's earning, or sitting down for an interview by Cnet you are there in the capacity as CEO of Microsoft. When you are out living your day to day life you are just Steve Ballmer. I've also never heard Steve Ballmer refer to himself as one of his kids father or Connie's husband. I'm sure when he is watching them at the baseball diamond he has or when he is meeting her friends he might but in his daily life he is separate from that roll.