Small add-on contract options

KeithSS

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Ok so I feel like I should preface this discussion by saying that I am an analytical person who beats everything to death looking at it from 1000 different angles. So I have done my due diligence and I know what the practical pros/cons of most of the ways this can be done. So now its down to the emotional/happiness parts of it lol.

My wife and I are wanting to add on a small contract to our DVC. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 75ish points at a different resort than we currently have (OKW). We currently have a 25 point grandfathered in direct contract just in our names and we have a 210 point direct contract that we share those points with my parents. Our goal is to have some more of our own points that we can use independent of the shared points until such time as the shared points become only our points, and also to get some more points now that will extend our DVC ownership as both the OKW contracts expire in 2042. So right out of the gate we are eliminating any of the 2042 resorts from our purchasing view. We also would like to get some home priority at a diff resort. Because of other certain circumstances, we will be financing these points now with the goal to have them paid off in a few years. Taking that into account, we have decided to go direct most likely because at that point level, after factoring in the higher %% rate for resale financing and higher closing costs etc, the difference $$ wise isn't enough in our eyes to give up the ability to book anywhere now or at any future resorts. Plus with direct because we have OCT use year we will get the 2020 points in addition to the 2021 and beyond points where as it seems like a lot of the resale contract have been stripped out. The price gap just isn't big enough in most cases to make it worth the hassle of restrictions, the ROFR wait, and the time to find the good contract in the right use year etc. See I told ya, I over analyze everything lol.

Our goals for using these points would be mostly for Fall travel usually in late Nov early Dec in studios with some 1BR sprinkled in here and there. Because I have the other shared contract I don't need tons of points for this one and can supplement any extra points we may need for our stays with that. I do tend to be a guy who looks for value and want whatever we do to be the best thing for us ultimately. So I have been going over it and over it the last few months and have come up with some options that seem to suit our needs and wanted to get everyone's opinions and hear other ways to look at it. Also, I'm not planning on selling it anytime soon, so the resale restrictions aren't heavily weighing into my decision.

The resorts I have narrowed it down to are AKL, RIV, and CCV, and i'll give you our reasoning pros/cons. All these prices are direct by the way and based off of wanting to keep the expenditure around $15000 or $250/mo financing with MF's.

AKL - 2057 exp date - 80 points $14880 and $238.27/mo with MF's
Pros- Great point chart, lots of rooms and extra bathroom in Kidani 1BR and higher, good availability its got a friggin Savanna!
Cons- It is a bit far away from things and have to take buses everywhere, does expire before Riv and CCV, I tend to think that MF's are going to keep going up more than some others cause of the animal care.

Riv - 2070 Exp date - 75 points $15075 and $239.27/mo with MF's
Pros - Studios are big and have the dual bathrooms and Murphy bed, Skyliner, longest exp date, Resort is beautiful and the wife loves it. I think that to get a SV studio you are going to have to own here.
Cons- Point chart blows for anything bigger than a SV studio, Resale restrictions blow (for the next guy not me lol)

CCV - 2068 exp date - 75 points $16875 and $256.65/mo with MF's
Pros - My fav resort and love the theming, good exp date and chart, boat to MK
Cons - Studios are SMALL and I think that during the times we typically go will still be almost impossible to get even at 11 mo, more $$ than the other options here.

So i think I have cam to the conclusion that RIv makes the most sense. I was leaning toward AKL initially for the $$ value but once you factor in everything its essentially I give up 5 points (80 for AKL vs 75 for Riv) and I get 13 extra years of ownership. Which even if I wanted to get out in 2057, AKL would be worth zero and rive would still have some value to sell still having 13 years left on the contract. CCV has my heart but I think the fighting for studios in our travel time would be enough to make me upset I paid more $$ for it. I know I can and will try to use the points where ever we buy at a bunch of diff places so I dont see the value in spending the extra $$ for CCV over Riv if its not going to guarantee me a studio at 11 mo in Dec.

Sorry for the long winded post but wanted to try and put out there y train of thought and see what everyone else's thoughts were.

Oh ,and respectfully, don't come at me about not financing it or why not do resale. Cause I have done the numbers on it. And im going direct. Especially at some of the crazy resale prices i've seen lately. These people are on drugs. $149/pp for a 25pt BRV contract? why the hell would I do that, when you can buy it DIrect for $186. On 25 points the diff is like $900 and no ROFR or anything to deal with. thats lunacy lol.

I look forward to any and all opinions!
 

DVCsloth

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
I would probably choose Riviera in your situation for myself. I did a small add on at CCV but We normally travel in the off peak times.
Actually started out with Riviera and changed it to CCV before closing. I was able to use some CCV points to stay at Riviera and loved the resort. We have another trip planned at Riv using CCV and VGF points. I figured we would book it while there was some availability in standard rooms. I am totally satisfied with CCV and VGF and I'm sure I would be happy with Riviera as well. Good luck wherever you end up adding on!
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Given your time of travel and wanting studios, I’d say CCV will be difficult. With an Oct UY, you could not even begin to walk it until then and many people will have already started.

That leaves AKV vs RIV. RIV SV will be harder to come by if you don’t own there. I love that resort for all the reasons you listed. I do not think resale value is a huge issue and I predict that it’s value will always remain similar to the AKV contract if you did sell.

Given the small amount , your buy in cost and MFs are pretty even for those two.

The winner in your post is that your wife loves RIV. I’d buy there as I think trading out to AKV will be easier when you are wanting to use the points than the other way around.

Good luck!
 

Where'sPiglet?

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
It sounds like you already know which way you're leaning.

One thing to consider is that your blue card status will expire with that contract in 2042, so you might want to make this contract have 125 points so that you will still have the status down the road. Alternatively, you could do the 75 at Riviera now, and add on 50 direct later. I think Riviera has a discount that kicks in at 150 points, but it looks like you're trying to keep your monthly cost around or under $250.
 

Wedgeout

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
After reading your analysis, I think you will get the most “emotional/happiness” from selecting RIV.
 

supersnoop

What time is the three o'clock parade?
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
I tend to think that MF's are going to keep going up more than some others cause of the animal care.
I see this opinion a lot, but I don't really understand it. Animal programs are about 7% of the dues at AKV, so even if they doubled, dues would only go up 7%. And I can't imagine they'd double any give year.
 

Marionnette

Children see magic because they look for it
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Ok so I feel like I should preface this discussion by saying that I am an analytical person who beats everything to death looking at it from 1000 different angles. So I have done my due diligence and I know what the practical pros/cons of most of the ways this can be done. So now its down to the emotional/happiness parts of it lol.

My wife and I are wanting to add on a small contract to our DVC. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 75ish points at a different resort than we currently have (OKW). We currently have a 25 point grandfathered in direct contract just in our names and we have a 210 point direct contract that we share those points with my parents. Our goal is to have some more of our own points that we can use independent of the shared points until such time as the shared points become only our points, and also to get some more points now that will extend our DVC ownership as both the OKW contracts expire in 2042. So right out of the gate we are eliminating any of the 2042 resorts from our purchasing view. We also would like to get some home priority at a diff resort. Because of other certain circumstances, we will be financing these points now with the goal to have them paid off in a few years. Taking that into account, we have decided to go direct most likely because at that point level, after factoring in the higher %% rate for resale financing and higher closing costs etc, the difference $$ wise isn't enough in our eyes to give up the ability to book anywhere now or at any future resorts. Plus with direct because we have OCT use year we will get the 2020 points in addition to the 2021 and beyond points where as it seems like a lot of the resale contract have been stripped out. The price gap just isn't big enough in most cases to make it worth the hassle of restrictions, the ROFR wait, and the time to find the good contract in the right use year etc. See I told ya, I over analyze everything lol.

Our goals for using these points would be mostly for Fall travel usually in late Nov early Dec in studios with some 1BR sprinkled in here and there. Because I have the other shared contract I don't need tons of points for this one and can supplement any extra points we may need for our stays with that. I do tend to be a guy who looks for value and want whatever we do to be the best thing for us ultimately. So I have been going over it and over it the last few months and have come up with some options that seem to suit our needs and wanted to get everyone's opinions and hear other ways to look at it. Also, I'm not planning on selling it anytime soon, so the resale restrictions aren't heavily weighing into my decision.

The resorts I have narrowed it down to are AKL, RIV, and CCV, and i'll give you our reasoning pros/cons. All these prices are direct by the way and based off of wanting to keep the expenditure around $15000 or $250/mo financing with MF's.

AKL - 2057 exp date - 80 points $14880 and $238.27/mo with MF's
Pros- Great point chart, lots of rooms and extra bathroom in Kidani 1BR and higher, good availability its got a friggin Savanna!
Cons- It is a bit far away from things and have to take buses everywhere, does expire before Riv and CCV, I tend to think that MF's are going to keep going up more than some others cause of the animal care.

Riv - 2070 Exp date - 75 points $15075 and $239.27/mo with MF's
Pros - Studios are big and have the dual bathrooms and Murphy bed, Skyliner, longest exp date, Resort is beautiful and the wife loves it. I think that to get a SV studio you are going to have to own here.
Cons- Point chart blows for anything bigger than a SV studio, Resale restrictions blow (for the next guy not me lol)

CCV - 2068 exp date - 75 points $16875 and $256.65/mo with MF's
Pros - My fav resort and love the theming, good exp date and chart, boat to MK
Cons - Studios are SMALL and I think that during the times we typically go will still be almost impossible to get even at 11 mo, more $$ than the other options here.

So i think I have cam to the conclusion that RIv makes the most sense. I was leaning toward AKL initially for the $$ value but once you factor in everything its essentially I give up 5 points (80 for AKL vs 75 for Riv) and I get 13 extra years of ownership. Which even if I wanted to get out in 2057, AKL would be worth zero and rive would still have some value to sell still having 13 years left on the contract. CCV has my heart but I think the fighting for studios in our travel time would be enough to make me upset I paid more $$ for it. I know I can and will try to use the points where ever we buy at a bunch of diff places so I dont see the value in spending the extra $$ for CCV over Riv if its not going to guarantee me a studio at 11 mo in Dec.

Sorry for the long winded post but wanted to try and put out there y train of thought and see what everyone else's thoughts were.

Oh ,and respectfully, don't come at me about not financing it or why not do resale. Cause I have done the numbers on it. And im going direct. Especially at some of the crazy resale prices i've seen lately. These people are on drugs. $149/pp for a 25pt BRV contract? why the hell would I do that, when you can buy it DIrect for $186. On 25 points the diff is like $900 and no ROFR or anything to deal with. thats lunacy lol.

I look forward to any and all opinions!
I think you've made up your mind. You just want validation and an attaboy! So, I'll keep my opinions to myself and welcome you home.
 

Sunnyore

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Agree with Sandi on emotional/happiness you should go with RIV because wife loves it. CCV would be in the running too but for how you wanted to use these extra points in the fall you probably will have a hard time booking rooms there. Add on 75 now and if they increase the min for direct benefits you can add on additional 50 then assuming you already made a sizable dent in your finance payments already for the 75.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I see this opinion a lot, but I don't really understand it. Animal programs are about 7% of the dues at AKV, so even if they doubled, dues would only go up 7%. And I can't imagine they'd double any give year.
Do you think the concern is more that the yearly rate increase for AKV will always be more than others because of animals? That would either widen the gap between less expensive or close it faster for more expensive.
 

supersnoop

What time is the three o'clock parade?
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Do you think the concern is more that the rate for AKV will always be more than others because if animals? That would either widen the gap between less expensive or close it faster for more expensive.

That is at least how I interpret those statements.
If animal programs grew at twice the rate as the rest of the budget increased, it would add about 0.1% to the total increase. I don't see that as widening the gap, at least not very quickly.
 

princesscinderella

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 27, 2011
I think RIV is also the best choice based on your post. It’s definitely going to be easier to get a room at AK than RIV if you wanted to stay somewhere else at the 7 month mark. Just calculate the number of points you will need for your reservation as you may need 77 points to stay in the season you want.
 

KeithSS

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
I think you've made up your mind. You just want validation and an attaboy! So, I'll keep my opinions to myself and welcome you home.
Well I suppose you are correct lol. I think I have pretty much made up my mind, but I certainly welcome any other views on the topic. An attaboy doesn't hurt either lmao! But in all seriousness any opinions you do have that aren't about how I shouldn't finance it or that i should buy resale are welcomed. I like to have differing views on things because sometimes it could be something that I never even thought of. But yes I think after 3-4 months of studying and going back and forth, there was definitely some looking for validation and that in my particular scenario, which is unique in the fact that I have access to the shared points, I wasn't totally off base in my line of thinking :)
 

KeithSS

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
After reading your analysis, I think you will get the most “emotional/happiness” from selecting RIV.
Ya I guess emotional/happiness is subjective by nature. What I suppose I really mean is that after all the analysis, it really comes down to preference within a few diff resorts since the $$ is close. Plus the whole happy wife, happy life thing is real too lmao!
 

KeithSS

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
It sounds like you already know which way you're leaning.

One thing to consider is that your blue card status will expire with that contract in 2042, so you might want to make this contract have 125 points so that you will still have the status down the road. Alternatively, you could do the 75 at Riviera now, and add on 50 direct later. I think Riviera has a discount that kicks in at 150 points, but it looks like you're trying to keep your monthly cost around or under $250.
See this is why I posted here. I hadn't even thought about the blue card going away after 2042. You make a very good point here with this. I def wouldnt feel comfortable doing the 125 now, but I can always add on another 50 down the road either at RIV or a new resort to be sure to keep my blue card. Thanks a alot for putting that on my radar because I honestly forgot all about that issue!!
 

Drew729

Earning My Ears
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
I wish you luck in whatever you decide. I would say the length of time one plans to hold a contract comes into play as well. When we decided to purchase it was a 15 year frame that was our starting point. What happens after 15 years can be decided at that point but we felt just fine purchasing AKL knowing that selling in 15 years leaves about 20 years left on that contract. The 2042 contracts which now have around 20 years left still seem to have willing buyers.

When factoring in points charts for the weeks we go along with MF and initial purchase cost we still went with AKL. I think the formula I used(which is based off staying at home resort only since it would get way to messy for me to figure out all the scenarios) was to take purchase price+ MF x (15) years= total price after 15 years. Now for a standard studio in Dec 1-14 it is 88 pts AKL, 116 RIV, 107 CCV.

At 75 points over 15 years comes to a total of 1125 points % 88 gets you 12.78 weeks or 89 nights at AKV, 116 at RIV gets you 9.69 weeks or 68 nights , 107 at CCV gets you 10.51 weeks or 74 nights.

I hope this didn't confuse you :) I was just hoping to shed some insight. It was an easy choice for us plus we love AKL.
 

KeithSS

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
I wish you luck in whatever you decide. I would say the length of time one plans to hold a contract comes into play as well. When we decided to purchase it was a 15 year frame that was our starting point. What happens after 15 years can be decided at that point but we felt just fine purchasing AKL knowing that selling in 15 years leaves about 20 years left on that contract. The 2042 contracts which now have around 20 years left still seem to have willing buyers.

When factoring in points charts for the weeks we go along with MF and initial purchase cost we still went with AKL. I think the formula I used(which is based off staying at home resort only since it would get way to messy for me to figure out all the scenarios) was to take purchase price+ MF x (15) years= total price after 15 years. Now for a standard studio in Dec 1-14 it is 88 pts AKL, 116 RIV, 107 CCV.

At 75 points over 15 years comes to a total of 1125 points % 88 gets you 12.78 weeks or 89 nights at AKV, 116 at RIV gets you 9.69 weeks or 68 nights , 107 at CCV gets you 10.51 weeks or 74 nights.

I hope this didn't confuse you :) I was just hoping to shed some insight. It was an easy choice for us plus we love AKL.
I agree with that logic 100%. My train of thought is a bit different where as I would use it alot at other resorts to get the points value/night out of it but if we wanted to use it at RIV we could get the priority booking window. At AKL typically booking at 7mo isn't too much of an issue. It is def a factor to look at it the way you did as well though. Iwas leaning AKL but after i looked at everything and took into account the extra years, if I don't end up selling it, is why I started to come back around towards RIV. For the little bit of extra $$ and booking priority if we did want to stay there vs AKL or anywhere else, it seemed to be a good deal to change course and start to learn more towards the RIV. But your way is certainly an interesting way to look at it, which I had not totally considered before so thanks for that as another means of quantifying the point/dollars/value :)
 

Marionnette

Children see magic because they look for it
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Well I suppose you are correct lol. I think I have pretty much made up my mind, but I certainly welcome any other views on the topic. An attaboy doesn't hurt either lmao! But in all seriousness any opinions you do have that aren't about how I shouldn't finance it or that i should buy resale are welcomed. I like to have differing views on things because sometimes it could be something that I never even thought of. But yes I think after 3-4 months of studying and going back and forth, there was definitely some looking for validation and that in my particular scenario, which is unique in the fact that I have access to the shared points, I wasn't totally off base in my line of thinking :)
As has been pointed out, you will lose your blue card membership when your OKW contracts expire. The blue card is probably the biggest reason to purchase direct right now, followed by the resale restrictions which only exclude use at one resort at the present time. You would have to purchase additional direct points to maintain your blue card and who knows what amount that will be given how DVC continues to raise the bar.

75 points at RIV or 80 points at CCV will not get you a full week at either of those resorts in Nov./Dec. You will not be able to combine those points with your OKW points at 11 months to make a reservation. Which means split stays between OKW and your new resort, traveling every other year to RIV or CCV or shorter trips.The occasional week in 1BR villas will be out of reach with banking and 50% borrowing.

You are correct in your thinking that if you want a standard view studio at RIV or any studio at CCV during that period, you will need to own there. With the exceptions of Poly, OKW, AKV and SSR that could be said for pretty much all resorts during the time you want to visit. When the 2042 resorts expire you are going to see that pool of available studios dwindle further as more resale owners will have fewer options to switch to at 7 months.

I think that the resale restrictions will affect you more at RIV than you think. Anyone buying RIV resale is only going to be able to book at RIV. That will increase competition for rooms and unlike direct owners, there's not going to be a big shift to other resorts at 7 months so that your wait list can pick up any nights you were unable to book. It's not just the next guy's problem.

But after having played the devil's advocate, I will add that both CCV and RIV are beautiful resorts in their own ways. I don't think either is a bad choice. But a happy wife means a happy life. If she loves RIV, you buy RIV.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Buying RIV to use at studios seems risky to me. They’re already tight, and it’s 1/3 sold. Eventually it will sell out, and eventually the RIV resale will create trapped buyers, and no one knows what will happen to availability then.

CCV has a known studio booking issue, especially at your travel time.

I find the AKL buses frustrating, but if it’s what you’re into, seems like the best pick in this selection.
 

dvc lover 1970

Mouseketeer
DVC Gold
Joined
May 29, 2013
Are you certain your 25 point expires in 2042? All the OKW direct sold since 2007 have been extended to 2057. I think in your case I would pick RIV but know you will probably need more points as resale buyers flood the market and can only use their points there. I question if RIV with have the issues as CCV but for different reasons. RIV makes the most sense from a cost and emotional perspective. I like all resorts listed and would probably do with 125 instead of 75 direct if your 25 does expire in 2042.
 

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