Skills Testing in Phy Ed

[luvmy3]

I am thinking along the same lines.

If you argue "why do we need to learn archery?" Someone might counter "why do we need to learn about Chaucer?" Why is it o.k. to grade someone on their mastery of the works of Chaucer and not their mastery of archery?

If you argue that someone worked very hard to master the works of Chaucer, I might counter that a student could have worked just as hard to master archery.

Because if I wanted my kid to learn the skills needed to play archer or any other sport I would enroll them in private classes that I paid for.

I never said we should make everything pass/fail you are twisting my words. I said we shouldn't grade on SKILL we should grade on knowledge. (So if a child was taught about Chaucer then would you expect them to be graded on if they wrote like Chaucer or what they learned about him?) Some kids don't have the athletic ability to do archery, or soccer, etc and they shouldn't be graded on their skill compared to the skills of other kids, its not really fair to grade someones talent.
Go ahead teach them the proper stance, the history of the sport and grade them on that. I took written tests in PE. We were graded on those and if we came to class and participated, not if we scored goals or baskets or shot a bullseye.
I expect kids to come out of school knowing how to read, write, do math, science and know their history. I don't expect my kids to come out knowing how to shoot an arrow.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I am so mad!! Last night I was just checking my DD's grades online and my youngest got a 50% on a test in GYM CLASS!! So I asked her about it and she said, "Yeah, we get tested on our Skills and I'm not very good at Archery!!" So, here GPA is going to go down because she doesn't have that all importanta life skill of being able to shoot a Bow and Arrow!!!

I agree that they should have a participation grade, and be tested on KNOWLEDGE, but she gets a 50 on a test because she can't hit the Bull's Eye!!! THAT IS CRAP!!!

In NC they weren't tested on how well they performed...just that they tried!!

Anyone know what the Phy Ed requirements for graduating in Texas are because I'm retiring at the end of the summer and that's where we will be.

I agree with you. My kids got a new music teacher that's on a power trip this year. They both got the equivalent of a "check" instead of a "check plus" on their report cards for music, when they have always gotten perfect report cards. Dh and I went to have a conference with this doofus and he said DD didn't get full credit on an assignment because she didn't have good rhythm. DS's class had TWO graded assignments the whole quarter- one was in a group where his whole group got a check, and the other he missed because we were in WDW. So all the other participation didn't count- just that one group assigment.

 

[Galahad]

PE Grades count toward GPA usually, but most colleges will remove PE and Art and things like that from the GPA they use (unless you plan to major in that subject) and just take core academics as the GPA they evaluate.

To not test skills at all would effectively denying other kids a reward for learning to do the skill. Lots of kids overcome an natural inability in something and make progress. I think that should be rewarded too! There are ways to do it that don't punish for not having talent thing.

In our HS district, ALL classes must have a final exam that must count at least 20% of the grade. That forces kids to not blow off the "easy" classes and I think it's a good thing.

 

[golfgal]

Sorry but I don't think there is anything wrong with having the actual skill count for something. If a course is simply pass for participating, why would anyone try to improve?

Because if I wanted my kid to learn the skills needed to play archer or any other sport I would enroll them in private classes that I paid for.

I never said we should make everything pass/fail you are twisting my words. I said we shouldn't grade on SKILL we should grade on knowledge. (So if a child was taught about Chaucer then would you expect them to be graded on if they wrote like Chaucer or what they learned about him?) Some kids don't have the athletic ability to do archery, or soccer, etc and they shouldn't be graded on their skill compared to the skills of other kids, its not really fair to grade someones talent.
Go ahead teach them the proper stance, the history of the sport and grade them on that. I took written tests in PE. We were graded on those and if we came to class and participated, not if we scored goals or baskets or shot a bullseye.
I expect kids to come out of school knowing how to read, write, do math, science and know their history. I don't expect my kids to come out knowing how to shoot an arrow.

How is a skill in PE any different then a skill in math??? There are plenty of kids that aren't very good in math or science or whatever, should they be able to take a class as pass/fail or not be tested because they aren't very good? It is the same thing. You can teach a child the proper way to do a math problem, the history behind it, etc. and they will still fail a test.

The PE classes are exposing kids to various things. What if your DD WAS very good at archery and ended up on the Olympic team, wouldn't you be glad she learned about it in high school? It is also a way to satisfy a PE credit for those kids that are really not athletic. Personally I think archery is simple and don't understand how someone can't hit a target?

Skill and knowledge can be used interchangeable--the knowledge of HOW to do something is as important as developing the skill to do it well.

 

[golfgal]

I agree with you. My kids got a new music teacher that's on a power trip this year. They both got the equivalent of a "check" instead of a "check plus" on their report cards for music, when they have always gotten perfect report cards. Dh and I went to have a conference with this doofus and he said DD didn't get full credit on an assignment because she didn't have good rhythm. DS's class had TWO graded assignments the whole quarter- one was in a group where his whole group got a check, and the other he missed because we were in WDW. So all the other participation didn't count- just that one group assigment.

Just because your students usually have perfect report cards doesn't mean they should automatically get a perfect score in music. Sorry but a BIG part of music is rhythm and if your DD didn't measure up to the expectations of the assignment why would you expect a perfect score??? What happens in math class when she gets 5 wrong on a test, do you expect the teacher to give her 100%??

 

[MichelleVW]

Personally I think archery is simple and don't understand how someone can't hit a target?

.

Ouch....this kid can run like the wind, ride horses like she was born on them, but apparently she wasn't born with the simple archery gene....

 

[luvmy3]

Skill and knowledge can be used interchangeable--the knowledge of HOW to do something is as important as developing the skill to do it well.

ITA, but I still stand by my response. If my dd to be involved in any sport I would enroll her in it as an extra curricular activity. She can learn the skills there.
I have a ds who is not athletic and its very hard to explain to him why he got a 2 in gym and not a 4 like his sister (who is very athletic). Its not fair for kids to be graded on something that can be considered a talent.
Math is different, you NEED basic math skills to survive in the real world, you don't NEED archery skills.

 

[MichelleVW]

Math is different, you NEED basic math skills to survive in the real world, you don't NEED archery skills.

Well...if you go through a wardrobe and get sucked into a battle in Narnia I'm sure those archery skills would come in handy!!

 

[luvmy3]

Well...if you go through a wardrobe and get sucked into a battle in Narnia I'm sure those archery skills would come in handy!!

And they would be beneficial to my 4 year old ds who wants to be a knight

 

[Kimberly]

Most of us girls aren't too good at archery. Anatomical differences so you have to hold the bow more out in an awkward position. When I was in gym they graded you like another previous poster stated: Attitude and the fact that you did attempt to participate, even if you were horrible at it. We did a few weird things in gym class, but as long as you participated and showed a good effort, it was an easy A.

 

[MichelleVW]

And they would be beneficial to my 4 year old ds who wants to be a knight

Good luck to him!!

 

[smkiss02]

I'm sorry but I don't send my kids to school to learn skills in archery. I don't pay taxes so that the other kids can learn it either. They canlearn about the sport and be graded on the knowledge but not on their own performance of the sport.
I am a firm believer in not grading on skill in PE, music or art.

At my high school, you only had to take PE for 1 year and the other 3 years if you took it it was an elective. Music and art were electives for all 4 years so you chose to take them. They absolutely should be graded on skill for music and art. I agree not so much for PE because it is mandatory for one year. I think we were actually graded on skill. I remember be graded on whether or not I could do a lay up in basketball which I never could do. Most of the grades came from participation/having the uniform on/being on time and tests on the knowledge of the sport.

Music and art on the other hand, they aren't mandatory here so the child chose to take the class. If you choose to play the trumpet but can never get the rhythm or notes for playing tests, well, they should get a poor grade. There were also written tests so that could bring up the marks, but I know the majority of my music mark came from actually playing the instrument.

OP- That sucks about the Archery. We never got to do that, I wish we did though. Sounds like fun! At least her mark can be brought up with the running and other skills she's good at.

 

[luvmy3]

At my high school, you only had to take PE for 1 year and the other 3 years if you took it it was an elective. Music and art were electives for all 4 years so you chose to take them. They absolutely should be graded on skill for music and art. I agree not so much for PE because it is mandatory for one year. I think we were actually graded on skill. I remember be graded on whether or not I could do a lay up in basketball which I never could do. Most of the grades came from participation/having the uniform on/being on time and tests on the knowledge of the sport.

Music and art on the other hand, they aren't mandatory here so the child chose to take the class. If you choose to play the trumpet but can never get the rhythm or notes for playing tests, well, they should get a poor grade. There were also written tests so that could bring up the marks, but I know the majority of my music mark came from actually playing the instrument.

OP- That sucks about the Archery. We never got to do that, I wish we did though. Sounds like fun! At least her mark can be brought up with the running and other skills she's good at.

If its an elective then by all means grade on skill. Most likely those with basic skills (be it athletic, musical or artisitc) would take those classes. The other kids who knew they weren't as talented in those fields would do something different.
In our district those classes ae not electives, they are mandatory and they do effect your final grade. So a kid who just makes the honor roll because of his grades in academic subjects can be knocked off because he can't do archery, or play a trumpet or paint a picture. Its completely unfair, and just plain crazy.

OP I do hope that the hockey part will boost your dd's grade.

 

[tonilea]

IMO, artistic ability, musical ability and athletic prowess are not just skills, they are based on talent.

You can't give someone who can't carry a tune or is tone deaf an F in a class they are required to take. You have to grade them on what they have learned in the class, which won't translate into that person suddenly becomming a Mariah Carey.

 

[Galahad]

which won't translate into that person suddenly becomming a Mariah Carey.

Good God, let's hope not...............

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

I took archery in high school and college and was easily the best in my class (yes, I even beat the boys). Can I just say that it has done absolutely nothing for me throughout my life? The stuff I learned in math, science, psychology, English, computer science and history has all come up many, many times in my life, but the only time archery came up is for a jeopardy question once several years ago. Yay. So yeah, I agree with those who place a greater level if importance on academic subjects. Physical education should be pass/fail and graded on participation only.

 

[Briarmom]

I don't recall having archery in PE.

Since your DD is attending my old high school, I am wondering who the teacher is. Heck, I am dying to know what teachers she has! I bet I had some of them!

 

[Cool-Beans]

When I took Microbiology I had the hardest time. It took me forever to be able to see anything. I created good slides - the instructor would come and adjust the microscope and show me my beautiful creations - but I couldn't seem to do it on my own. He grew very frustrated with me over that and my consumption of Diet Pepsi, which he deemed to be the Devil's Cola.

Someone gave me a copy of a James Thurber article on that very subject (seeing things in a microscope), as well as his ROTC experience. IIRC, gym was included, too. It was hilarious. I can't remember the title, though.

Your daughter might enjoy it, if she can find it.

 

[taximomfor4]

PE grade counts toward GPA? Have never heard that before.

My dd's grade in 10th grade KILLED her GPA. C's both quarters, then she FAILED the final. How, I don't know. She dressed every single day, and participated even in the sports she stunk at (just laughed at herself while everyone else laughed at her). I wish, since she dances so many hours per week, we could submit that in lieu of gym class.

 

[Beth76]

I really don't see Archery in the same light as the Core classes (English,Science etc).

You're not making a proper comparison. You can't compare one aspect of PE to the whole of English. Anyone can argue that you don't need to learn about Chaucer too. I'm pretty sure I never studied him.

I aced math and science for most of my life. When I got Cs in Trig and Physics (and believe me it was not due to lack of trying), I didn't go complaining that it wasn't fair. Those were concepts that I just couldn't grasp. I took the C and I took the hit to my GPA. And Trig figures absolutely nowhere into my life. I'm not so sure physics does either.