Skills Testing in Phy Ed

[luvmy3]

So students should only take courses they are good at?

Of course not. But should we punish a child for not being good at something like archery?

 

[MichelleVW]

So now it is ok for her to receive a grade based on her skill?

Nope...I still think it's crap......but if that is how she is graded shouldn't I be happy that she brought her grade up because of her awesome running skills??

 

[taximomfor4]

Of course not. But should we punish a child for not being good at something like archery?

The loophole is to put the kids in summer-school phys ed. It's abbreviated, so they don't have time to get that in depth. Around here, lots of kids who aren't so athletic and have really high GPA's do this, to not hurt their GPA.

 

[declansdad]

I think you are missing my point. I have no problems with those courses being required. My problem is that they grade them based on a child's ability to perform a certain sport well, or play an instrunent well or paint pictures well.
They use those grades to determine a final average, possibly keeping a child off the honor roll. It just doesn't seem fair to me.
Like I said before they were requirements for me, but we were graded on written tests and participation, as I think it should be.
Is your disagreement that they should be required or that they should be graded on skill and performance?

I believe that they should be required and I believe they should be graded on performance, just like any other course.

There more to life than the honour roll.

 

[declansdad]

Of course not. But should we punish a child for not being good at something like archery?

I look at the other way. You reward the child who excels in PE, music, and arts the same way you reward those students who excel in math and science.

 

[Beth76]

I disagree. If kids are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys it's because their PARENTS are not making them turn off the TV and are buying them these games.

It's not the school's responsibility to keep my kid in shape. They have enough other things to teach in a school day.

edited to add: We've HAD PE in the schools this whole time and kids are out-of-shape -- I guess it isn't working too well now is it?

It's still part of a well-rounded education. And for those whose parents aren't encouraging exercise, the only place they get it is in gym class. And of course requiring PE isn't going to mean that no one is overweight. Just as requiring math doesn't guarantee that everyone aces geometry.

Nope...I still think it's crap......but if that is how she is graded shouldn't I be happy that she brought her grade up because of her awesome running skills??

So now there's another parents somewhere who's upset because their child isn't good at running and thier grade was brought down. Running isn't a necessary skill in life.

 

[Galahad]

I look at the other way. You reward the child who excels in PE, music, and arts the same way you reward those students who execel in math and science.

Exactly.

And, if you are concerned about GPA and college, colleges don't include PE in the GPA they use for admissions.

 

[declansdad]

Nope...I still think it's crap......but if that is how she is graded shouldn't I be happy that she brought her grade up because of her awesome running skills??

aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

 

[luvmy3]

I don't think anyone ont his thread said that students shouldn't be taking PE, or they should not be participating in sports and games in PE.
The problem of grading on skill is that is not a level playing field (no pun intended). There are many programs that schools offer for those students who do not excel in math, science, english, etc. What is there for kids who don't excel at physical activities. Its not fair that these courses are graded the same way.
As far as colleges not looking at PE in the GPA, it doesn't matter the student does. My ds has trouble enough with his self esteem, a 2 in PE doesn't help that situation at all.

OP I'm so glad your dd did better on this one. I hope she continues to bring her grade up

 

[themilesfamily]

Exactly.

And, if you are concerned about GPA and college, colleges don't include PE in the GPA they use for admissions.

Galahad, I believe college & universities do include all grades. I worked for a large university and a small liberal arts college -- I believe both of them included PE grades in admissions.

Does anyone have more info on this? I'm the first to admit that I could be wrong!

But grades effect other things, too -- scholarships, class rank, valedictorian status, etc.

 

[declansdad]

you can tutor all you want in math, science, etc. That doesn't mean the student will do any better.

I can understand that your ds may feel bad because he doesn't do as well in PE as his sister or others in his class. That same self-esteem problem can exist, and is much more pronounced imho, with those who are weak in academic subjects. Students who are strong in acedemics but weak in PE, for example, are told not to worry about it, it is the academics that are important. The students who are strong in PE but weak in academics are simply told they are dumb jocks.

 

[themilesfamily]

you can tutor all you want in math, science, etc. That doesn't mean the student will do any better.

I can understand that your ds may feel bad because he doesn't do as well in PE as his sister or others in his class. That same self-esteem problem can exist, and is much more pronounced imho, with those who are weak in academic subjects. Students who are strong in acedemics but weak in PE, for example, are told not to worry about it, it is the academics that are important. The students who are strong in PE but weak in academics are simply told they are dumb jocks.

I think what it comes down to is that a student needs to leave school with a basic level of competency in reading and math to get by in life -- jock or no jock. A basic of level of competency in archery, on the other hand, is NOT necessary to get by in life.

I just don't think these things need to be taught as required classes in the schools. Stick to the necessities and teach them well -- and let kids pursue interests, hobbies as extracurriculars or electives.

 

[luvmy3]

you can tutor all you want in math, science, etc. That doesn't mean the student will do any better.

I can understand that your ds may feel bad because he doesn't do as well in PE as his sister or others in his class. That same self-esteem problem can exist, and is much more pronounced imho, with those who are weak in academic subjects. Students who are strong in acedemics but weak in PE, for example, are told not to worry about it, it is the academics that are important. The students who are strong in PE but weak in academics are simply told they are dumb jocks.

All this is very true, but the fact is the programs are there for academics they are not for the others, thus making the grading system unfair.

 

[Galahad]

Galahad, I believe college & universities do include all grades. I worked for a large university and a small liberal arts college -- I believe both of them included PE grades in admissions.

Does anyone have more info on this? I'm the first to admit that I could be wrong!

But grades effect other things, too -- scholarships, class rank, valedictorian status, etc.

We've just gone through this process with my youngest son. He visited 12 colleges, applied to 4 of them. All of them said that they only consider "core" GPA in admission decisions. Math, Science, Language Arts, etc. They considered his Music also since he was applying to be a music major. But for most they would not have considered music, art, PE, and things like that. Most of them also considered BOTH weighted and unweighted GPA's, meaning that AP classes were merely a tie breaker. Honestly, class ranks are so close when you are grouped by centiles and quintiles. They care more about whether you are in the top 5% or 10% more than if you are 7th or 23rd. Most kids will not be valedictorian so that really is just an academic argument.

 

[Galahad]

I just don't think these things need to be taught as required classes in the schools. Stick to the necessities and teach them well -- and let kids pursue interests, hobbies as extracurriculars or electives.

I'll bet you 6 month salary that if you really did this the drop out rate would be even higher, achievement rates would plummet and we would be in a world of hurt. You don't teach math better by simply spending more time teaching math.

 

[themilesfamily]

But for most they would not have considered music, art, PE, and things like that.

That's good to know! I wonder the percentage of schools that take this approach?

Most kids will not be valedictorian so that really is just an academic argument.

Hey, hey, hey -- MY DD is WELL on her way to valedictorianship. She's only 3, but you know...

Good luck to your son!!! College is such a wonderful time of life. *sigh* I miss it!

 

[Galahad]

Good luck to your son!!! College is such a wonderful time of life. *sigh* I miss it!

Thanks. Just yesterday he was rubbing it in a bit.
"Mom and Dad, guess what. I'm going to college and you're not!

 

[maelstrom]

We had to take swimming every year in high school, and I got a poor grade that marking quarter every year because I CAN'T SWIM. I'd been taking swimming lessons every summer since I was able to, even through junior high, and I just can't swim. MY GPA was brought down because I can't swim. Complete nonsense.

 

[MichelleVW]

aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

So explain again to me why I shouldn't be happy that my child brought up her grade?

I'm playing by the rules...she sucks at archery so she got a failing grade on that "test" , she excels in track so her grade is coming back up. I think the whole system is crap and they should be graded on effort and participation, but they are not, they are graded on skill....so I am happy that my child did well on her running test....

Should I tell her to run slower next time?

 

[declansdad]

I agree that they should have a participation grade, and be tested on KNOWLEDGE, but she gets a 50 on a test because she can't hit the Bull's Eye!!! THAT IS CRAP!!!

This is why I said your are being hypocritical. Yes you should be happy she achieved a better grade, but she wasn't tested on her knowledge of running.