Should Students be required to perform "Community Service"?

[tvguy]

I beg to differ. Most "mandatory volunteering" I have run across has required liability waivers and criminal background checks. How is that now disclosure?

Apples and oranges. Everything regarding liability waivers and criminal background checks is public record.

Medical information is not.

 

[OceanAnnie]

And there lies the crux of the issue. I was going to respond a bunch more to you. .. and I still might.

But who gets to define what is "appropriate"

I have read the cases as far as the constitutionality of this. Even though the justices have so far upheld the school districts positions. . .they warn that the idea of "service hours" must be defined by the students.

Soooooo. . .let's just say that I'm a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. My children have the right to define their service to the community as protesting gay soldiers' funerals. That is how they define "community service." Are you ok with that? Because if you are going to require it. . it counts. Schools do not get to push whatever their agenda is regarding what constitutes community service and how that plays out values wise. I'm Catholic and if my kids are attending a public HS, they get to count praying outside of abortion clinics with a group of nuns as their "service" to their community. It's such a fuzzy line that I think it needs to be dropped entirely.

It borders on Nazi youth. We mandate that you must "volunteer" in your community for the greater good of society. I hate to break it to you, but our system is based on the rights of the individual. Who gets to define "the greater good of society" And isn't now also our responsibility, to teach our youth, in a democratic society, to question authority and the scope of government? It's all so Orwellian. . ."mandatory volunteering." If that isn't doublespeak, I don't know what is.

Schools that have successfully implemented this "required" community service have counted sports and band/choir participation as counting. Constitutionally, they don't have a choice. If you play high school football, and people show up that are members of the community. . .than that constitutes "community service." If that doesn't fall under your definition, tough beans!

I know I read up thread some sorry soul that thinks a basic education isn't a "right." Well, every state in the union provides for that in their constitution. Here is my states:

It is [the]the paramount duty of the state to make ample provision for the education of all children[/B] residing within its borders, without distinction or preference on account of race, color, caste, or sex.

Here's another interesting tidbit:

All schools maintained or supported wholly or in part by the public funds shall be forever free from sectarian control or influence.

And:

Sectarianism may be the expression of a group's nationalistic or cultural ambitions

Sooo. . just because people of a certain persuasion think that "community service" is a good thing. . .they don't get to push that on others in order for those "others" to exercise their basic rights. You don't get to decide just because you think it has value, that others must find value in it. And even if we can all agree that there is value, you don't get to tell me that picking up trash is appropriate, but praying the Rosary is not, when it comes to "greater good."

I don't really know how else to make that clear! Just because some people think it a wonderful value to instill in people, doesn't mean they get to. And they certainly don't get to decide how others define action for the benefit of society.

How about mandatory military "volunteerism" as a prerequisite to a basic right. . like voting? All the arguments in the world about the value of military service isn't going to justify making it a requirement to a basic right. . .God given as we define them! And it really doesn't matter all the valuable things anybody wants to postulate about "service hours." It doesn't matter! You are simply not allowed to use the right to a basic education to impose your values on others. It's just not right on principle. There I said it!

Very well stated post! Spot on!

 

[declansdad]

It's been pointed out several times, there are many things both students and adults don't want to do but must. Student doesn't want to do homework, or take biology, or go to school? Is that acceptable, or must they do it anyway? Plus, bicker has very reasonably suggested several times - a choice between community service and a Civics class.

I agreed with Bicker and then she posted this comment.

However, this isn't about what's good for the specifically community service organization - it's about what's good for society overall.

I'm sorry but if the needs of the organizations are not taken into consideration, the idea of a program such of this is just wrong.

And several of us hav suggested 'kick them out/toss 'em back'. Several times. No organization that utilizes or relies on volunteers should be forced to deal with those who don't produce. It's not your responsibility that they need the community service to graduate (as long as you're getting rid of them for legitimate reasons, and not just because you disagree with the program or refuse to give individuals the opportunity).

Kick them back/toss 'em back is fine but the fact of the matter is that they have already some the damage to the organization.


There is nothing wrong with asking students to help out with organizations in their communities but it shouldn't be forced on them. Having a course that would give credits to those who wished to participate would be idea.

 

[Imagineer7]

Kick them back/toss 'em back is fine but the fact of the matter is that they have already some the damage to the organization.

What is this damage you speak of? Because a kid shows up and doesn't want to do work? Yes I could see how that might cause irreparable harm to an organization!

 

[declansdad]

What is this damage you speak of? Because a kid shows up and doesn't want to do work? Yes I could see how that might cause irreparable harm to an organization!

You have made your mind that there would be no problems so I don't see any reason to continue this discussion. I appreciate your opinion and wish you luck with your volunteers.

 

[GinnyEmma]

You have made your mind that there would be no problems so I don't see any reason to continue this discussion. I appreciate your opinion and wish you luck with your volunteers.

Lol, you've done the same, I've posted over and over again that we have very few problems with mandated workers. I've done it for 25 years, with kids, women, food banks, and the homeless shelter. You just have to have a plan. Or at least that is what has always worked for me.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Lol, you've done the same, I've posted over and over again that we have very few problems with mandated workers. I've done it for 25 years, with kids, women, food banks, and the homeless shelter. You just have to have a plan. Or at least that is what has always worked for me.

It's a very long thread. I missed the source of your mandated workers. Where do they come from?

 

[Ceila]

What is this damage you speak of? Because a kid shows up and doesn't want to do work? Yes I could see how that might cause irreparable harm to an organization!

So, you'd be OK with high school students coming to your place of employment and doing a lousy job?

Just because these places utilize volunteers does NOT mean they are not legitimate organizations that have a need for all staff - paid and volunteer - to give them their best effort. Just like for-profit companies, they don't have time to deal with kids who are there just messing around (or worse, messing things up).

 

[declansdad]

Lol, you've done the same, I've posted over and over again that we have very few problems with mandated workers. I've done it for 25 years, with kids, women, food banks, and the homeless shelter. You just have to have a plan. Or at least that is what has always worked for me.

What I have been trying to do is say there is more to the issue than simply providing students the opportunity to volunteer. And get Bicker to tell us why the individual organizations don't matter.

I have agreed that having students volunteer with community groups is a good thing; however, it should not be a forced system.

 

[Imagineer7]

So, you'd be OK with high school students coming to your place of employment and doing a lousy job?

Just because these places utilize volunteers does NOT mean they are not legitimate organizations that have a need for all staff - paid and volunteer - to give them their best effort. Just like for-profit companies, they don't have time to deal with kids who are there just messing around (or worse, messing things up).

I posted earlier that any kids who mess around will fail the service requirement and therefore don't graduate. Seems like a pretty large motivator.

 

[Imagineer7]

Lol, you've done the same, I've posted over and over again that we have very few problems with mandated workers. I've done it for 25 years, with kids, women, food banks, and the homeless shelter. You just have to have a plan. Or at least that is what has always worked for me.

I'm guessing a mandated volunteer stole declansdad's lunch and he's taken it upon himself to crusade against forced volunteerism ever since.

 

[declansdad]

I'm guessing a mandated volunteer stole declansdad's lunch and he's taken it upon himself to crusade against forced volunteerism ever since.

How old are you?

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I think that volunteering for some type of community service should be an option, a choice rather than projects/reports. The child is responsible for "passing" their volunteer project. No work, no pass.

 

[Imagineer7]

How old are you?

Old enough.

 

[shortbun]

And so, the old adage "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" prevails, once again, on the Dis. Has anyone, EVER had their mind changed in one of these discussions?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Only on the Dis could community service as a graduation requirement be considered a bad thing.

That is so completely not true. You should have lived in my town in 1991.

 

[powellrj]

Bottom line for me is if you are going to require community service, please also provide the transportation to it! My kids do lots of community service projects through church and service organizations like student council, NHS and the rotary club and I let them pick and choose what they do with it coming down to is do you have a ride or is it at a time I can take you and pick you up.

 

[Ceila]

I'm guessing a mandated volunteer stole declansdad's lunch and he's taken it upon himself to crusade against forced volunteerism ever since.

And with one remark you have negated any reason to take any of your comments seriously.

 

[Imagineer7]

And with one remark you have negated any reason to take any of your comments seriously.

As if it matters

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

As if it matters

Exactly - you put your opinion and ideals ahead of others, as do many others in this thread (on both sides). That is wrong.