Should I Buy Riviera?

[Sandisw]

I completely agree with everything! Riviera is most appealing because of the 2070 exp. But the greatest unknown is what the resale restrictions will do to its long term price point on the resale market. Outside of that and MFs, I think the resort looks absolutely amazing.

Based on how things have shaken out with resale pricing, I think the key to this may be when more resorts are built with the restrictions. Once that happens, it won't be unique any longer. I do think that people are buying resale contracts there...reasons I did...is because the resort is worth it all the way around. And, my hunch is most that have are adding it to other points that own that can be used at L14 resorts.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Based on how things have shaken out with resale pricing, I think the key to this may be when more resorts are built with the restrictions. Once that happens, it won't be unique any longer. I do think that people are buying resale contracts there...reasons I did...is because the resort is worth it all the way around. And, my hunch is most that have are adding it to other points that own that can be used at L14 resorts.

I think you’re right. Personally, I don’t mind the restrictions. This is probably an unpopular sentiment but I personally don’t like that cheap and plentiful Saratoga and Aulani points can take up so many reservations at the other more limited premium resorts.

 

[KTownRaider]

Based on how things have shaken out with resale pricing, I think the key to this may be when more resorts are built with the restrictions.

I agree with this sentiment overall. I think what is still to be determined is whether all resorts will fare as well with restrictions. I think we can confidently say certain resorts are going to be restriction proof- Disneyland Hotel Tower for example, or whatever follows BCV/BWV in 2042 (assuming they remain DVC). I think a new development similar to Saratoga/OKW (or non Disney park resort ala Hilton Head) could very well struggle with resale restrictions.

That said, Riviera seems to be doing really well resale-wise so far. I just saw a 200pt RIV resale asking $170/pt- which is higher than many O14 resale contracts with another 39-47 years left.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Based on how things have shaken out with resale pricing, I think the key to this may be when more resorts are built with the restrictions. Once that happens, it won't be unique any longer. I do think that people are buying resale contracts there...reasons I did...is because the resort is worth it all the way around. And, my hunch is most that have are adding it to other points that own that can be used at L14 resorts.

I think you’re right on both counts. But I do wonder how many new DVC resorts, not just add-ons, Disney will build in the next 5-10 years. The answer could be pretty low. Maybe, in addition to the Disneyland Tower, one other at WDW? If the new Star Wars hotel is a hit, then maybe the focus will turn completely away from DVC to smaller, highly immersive, themed 2-3 day experiences. I bet they’re already working on an Avengers/Marvel hotel as well.

But I also believe you should buy where you really want to stay, and if I loved the Riviera as much as many people do, I‘d buy resale there as well.

 

[Lorana]

Wow. I didn’t know AKV & CCV were by the same architect, so its interesting those are my 2 favorite resorts.

Yes! Peter Dominick. He designed the Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge, and the Grand Californian Resorts. It's why I had to own at all three to complete my trifecta. ;-)

 

[Paul Stupin]

Yes! Peter Dominick. He designed the Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge, and the Grand Californian Resorts. It's why I had to own at all three to complete my trifecta. ;-)

I don’t think we’ll ever see any DVC resorts quite as spectacular and grand as the above and the VGF. Too expensive to build and not cost effective enough, when Disney can add more capacity by omitting the jaw dropping, beautifully detailed atriums and replace them with more rooms. Can’t even blame them. Those resorts are almost relics from a different time. One thing, though. At least Aulani comes close!

 

[Lorana]

I don’t think we’ll ever see any DVC resorts quite as spectacular and grand as the above and the VGF. Too expensive to build and not cost effective enough, when Disney can add more capacity by omitting the jaw dropping, beautifully detailed atriums and replace them with more rooms. Can’t even blame them. Those resorts are almost relics from a different time. One thing, though. At least Aulani comes close!

Agreed, alas, though one can hope that Disney may invest in true experiences again - I had some hope for Reflections based on early sketches.

Also agree about Aulani- it may not be a Peter Dominick resort but it’s clear they approached it with the same care for creating a “wow” experience and incorporation of the local and native styles and designs. We almost bought a resale contract there last year when they were pricing around $80-$90/point even for 100 point contracts, as we do love the resort and DH wanted an “excuse” to force us to visit every third year. But ultimately we decided there’s enough 7 month availability and my VGC contracts popped up and we bought there instead.

 

[Lee Matthews]

I’m not sure what to do long term.

we’ve got Vero Beach that we are happy to have for 20 years.

Then we have AKV which has 35 years and takes us to 65/66 years old but nothing past that.

we would like something to visit till we die and then pass on but the options don’t inspire me. Riviera is nice but resale restrictions turn me off and it doesn’t exactly wow me.

Disneyland tower isn’t for us and as the years go by and they maybe open newer resorts, the PPP is going to rocket near the $300 or more per point which puts me off completely.

 

[EYL]

we would like something to visit till we die and then pass on but the options don’t inspire me. Riviera is nice but resale restrictions turn me off and it doesn’t exactly wow me.

The resale restrictions (more specifically, the possible long-term effects of it), turn me off as well. Problem is, my family has a stay at the Riviera at the end of August, and I'm so afraid that we will love it. Wifey already loves the concept of everything under one roof. If she wants it, I'll have a conundrum on my hands.

 

[CarolMN]

The resale restrictions (more specifically, the possible long-term effects of it), turn me off as well. Problem is, my family has a stay at the Riviera at the end of August, and I'm so afraid that we will love it. Wifey already loves the concept of everything under one roof. If she wants it, I'll have a conundrum on my hands.

No you won't, LOL. If she wants it, you know what to do! (Who wants to be stuck somewhere with a partner who wants to be somewhere else)?

 

[prs_14]

To the OP: if you can afford it, I would recommend that you buy direct at whichever resort you like best. On a price per point per year basis, there are several resorts that are priced (on a direct basis) in a pretty tight band. Those would include CCV, SSR, RR, PVB, OKW, VGF, BLT, AKV, and AUL. It comes down to things like specific sales incentives as well as the points charts.

It used to be that everyone would call direct buyers uneducated - making decisions with their heart on impulse instead of their head. My latest thinking is that the pendulum has swing too far the other way. Now it is the resale buyers who appear less willing to think about this critically. Resale prices have gone up considerably, and resale buyers are only looking at the upfront cost savings and assuming that is the way to go. The best perk/benefit of DVC is the ability to use points at all current and future resorts. And Disney knows this (thus the restrictions). The difference between direct and resale is typically only $1-2 per point per year. For that extra cost, you get access to ~50 years of current and brand new DVC resorts, including likely the "new" BCV, BWV, and BRV opening in ~2043 and beyond.

In the long term, the resale restrictions will affect everybody. Sure, today it does not seem that bad, but as we get closer to 2042, and therefore closer to BWV/BCV/BRV going away, fewer and fewer people are going to be interested in buying resale points, depressing the value of everyone's DVC points. In 10 years, will resale buyers be excited about 10 more years of the full slate of resorts (ex-Riviera), but then being relegated to only 7 (!) WDW resorts (CCV, SSR, PVB, OKW, VGF, BLT, and AKV) for the following 10-25 years? And, at that point, those properties will range from ~15-30 years old. The points charts will probably look great at that point due to inflation, but those resorts will be more tired/dated. New buyers will want to go direct, depressing resale prices.

With young kids, and the potential to pass this on to them in the future, I would recommend buying direct. For only $1-2 per point per year extra, they are going to be able to take their families to the newest and best resorts at Disney in 2061, rather than picking between at most three resorts (if you buy CCV resale).

 

[HIRyeDVC]

The best perk/benefit of DVC is the ability to use points at all current and future resorts.

There is no truer statement than this. Forget moonlight magic, or AP discounts, or lounge access. This will be the biggest direct benefit going forward. It’s too early for people to care now. But in 20-30 years, people will care.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I’m not sure what to do long term.

we’ve got Vero Beach that we are happy to have for 20 years.

Then we have AKV which has 35 years and takes us to 65/66 years old but nothing past that.

we would like something to visit till we die and then pass on but the options don’t inspire me. Riviera is nice but resale restrictions turn me off and it doesn’t exactly wow me.

Disneyland tower isn’t for us and as the years go by and they maybe open newer resorts, the PPP is going to rocket near the $300 or more per point which puts me off completely.

I wish I had the foresight to buy DVC when I was 30. Great job! How about CCV? 2068 will get you to the ripe old age of 82.

 

[prs_14]

There is no truer statement than this. Forget moonlight magic, or AP discounts, or lounge access. This will be the biggest direct benefit going forward. It’s too early for people to care now. But in 20-30 years, people will care.

Agree 100%.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Agree 100%.

But then again, in 20-30 years, I may not care

 

[PinkPixel]

I am calling all you seasoned DVC owners, math nerds and hyper analyzers to help a gal out.

Here is the situation:
- We are a family of 4, 2 boys are still elementary age.
- We are in the process of buying our AKL resale but we are also looking to get that Blue Card. I was looking at Copper Creek.
- I have never been to the resort to see it, however from all the walk through blogs and whatnots I don't love it I am an ALK girl all the way.
- When we were looking at home resorts I sat my 4th grader down and asked him to do every one bedroom tour and rank them with what you like most to least. SHOCKER his absolutely loved Riviera, it was his number one for very practical reasons, sleeps 5, no pull out, larger room, clean crisp look (he is a bit of an old soul).

My Thoughts:

The Good: The location is great, 2 boys are likely going to want to be by HS and EPCOT in the next 10 years. The resort is beautiful and looks very nice, my son is right it checks a lot of boxes for our family's needs, murphy bed. The price point for a direct purchase is the biggest driver for me.

The Bad: MF seems crazy high! I am concerned about the skyliner, its not proven yet but you are pretty much paying a premium for it. Obviously, resale restrictions, even though I am not looking to resell it my concerns are, availability for owners down the line with a group of resale owner booking at 11 months and done. Could it become the resort of renters, what will that do to MF and overall vibe of resort? If Disney has trouble selling it out what will that do to MF if owners only get a slim credit for breakage? Currently I am not seeing a huge discount on the resale market given the restrictions but will that come into play more as the new car smell wears off?

I have attached my spreadsheet and I would love for someone to pick it apart. Just for background on my parameters, I was told buy our guide current owners get an additional $5 a point off with a 200 point purchase bringing it to a $181 per point purchase. I ran the current dues +5% annually over the lifetime. Use years were what my guide said "is being sold right now". This calculation has RIV beating CCV buy a hair.

I want to hear your opinions. Give it to me straight doc!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kS0OLBdAIFH7Wly-bmfCIfvznERcRgIf45y4FDfPDf0/edit?usp=sharing

Can I ask the rational for buying DVC to begin with? Is it based on what you spend yearly on vacation?

 

[DougEMG]

I think you’re right. Personally, I don’t mind the restrictions. This is probably an unpopular sentiment but I personally don’t like that cheap and plentiful Saratoga and Aulani points can take up so many reservations at the other more limited premium resorts.

And this is exactly how DVC markets the resale restrictions, as a benefit to the direct owners, so I am betting they will stay in place. Now Disney is the only one that actually knows how many resale owners (not grandfathered in) there are and if this is actually going to stop that many SSR and Aulani owners from booking the new resorts, but it is still good for marketing.

One data point, as someone that rents out points, I have yet to have anyone ask for RIV. The most recent requests where for BWV and BCV.

 

[Lee Matthews]

I wish I had the foresight to buy DVC when I was 30. Great job! How about CCV? 2068 will get you to the ripe old age of 82.

That would be the front runner for me

The only thing I kind of wanted originally was a resort that was the polar opposite to AKV to add variety but I know I would fall in love with the resort. Plus I want to stay in one of those cabins

 

[Tiberella626]

Can I ask the rational for buying DVC to begin with? Is it based on what you spend yearly on vacation?

In 2020 we had a trip booked for AKL that did not happen due to COVID. This year without knowing exactly what would be open in WDW we went to an all inclusive instead. I couldn't believe how much food my kids wouldn't eat. When I look at how much I would have spent on lodging and food. I came to the economic decision of it's better to get something with a kitchen. I looked into off site but our oldest has some special considerations that will likely require us to leave for a while and return after a break. This makes buying/renting DVC or paying for cash stays our best options. Do I really want to visit Disney all the time, not really but with our aforementioned son's considerations Disney is far and away the best option to help me help him have the best time.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

That would be the front runner for me

The only thing I kind of wanted originally was a resort that was the polar opposite to AKV to add variety but I know I would fall in love with the resort. Plus I want to stay in one of those cabins

I hope to stay at those cabins one day too. Perhaps when my kids are older and we're not so focused on the parks. I'd really want to do nothing but to enjoy the cabin and resort amenities. And there are LOTS of amenities at WL.