Shooting at Va Tech

[Dannielle_1]

wow, that was incredible. so frightening. i can't imagine what would have gone through my head had i been in that situation. those people were so brave, every last one of them.

I agree. Very brave. The one student, Trey I believe, who gave all the interviews on Monday & Tuesday about what he went through, was unbelievable on how calm and articulate he was about everything, yet that was what he needed to process everything he had gone through. It was the silence that got him.

This was the type of artical that I needed to read to process this tragedy. I didn't need to know what went wrong with communications, what could've, should've, or why. I just "needed" to know what actually happened.

 

[lbgraves]

Thought others might like to read this. It is a fairly detailed walkthrough of what occured on April 16, 2007.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824.html

Just when I thought that I couldn't cry any more this week. That article is so personal, touching, and chilling. Putting everyone's stories together like they did should put an end to people questioning why the victims didn't do an more to stop the gunman.

 

[Green Tea]

Green Tea, I don't believe this is correct. From what I've read state officials have conceded the sale was perfectly legal under the law. If in fact he submitted a falsified application (even if the question wasn't directly material under state law concerning ownership qualifications) I doubt that this would have been considered a "legal" sale.

The gun store owner said he would not have sold the student a gun if he had checked that box. The shooter didn't meet the legal determination of not allowed to purchase, but on the form he didn't check the box that would have made the store owner stop the sale before the background check.

 

[grlpwrd]

Thought others might like to read this. It is a fairly detailed walkthrough of what occured on April 16, 2007.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824.html

Thanks for the link. It puts together all the pieces of the puzzle.

 

[beachblanket]

Deb, you forget to mention that this ABC poll wasn't done with a random, scientific, representative sample of the U.S. population.

Instead, you simply quoted an online poll of people who happened to visit the ABC news website. ABC itself points that survey isn't projectable to the U.S. population with the following qualifier on the questionaire page:

Not a scientific survey.

So your generalization that "most of the people in this country don't agree with you" is unsupported - we don't yet know how the country in general is reacting.

It's not scientific only because it does not use a random sampling. Only ABCNews website viewers voted on this. But just because it is not scientific doesn't mean that it's not true.

The fact it is unscientific makes it useless. To project results (which is exactly what you are trying to do), you need to prove your sample is representative of the entire universe in discussion . The ABC study can't do that - and just because you like the results doesn't make them fact.

 

[Geoff_M]

The gun store owner said he would not have sold the student a gun if he had checked that box. The shooter didn't meet the legal determination of not allowed to purchase, but on the form he didn't check the box that would have made the store owner stop the sale before the background check.

I can't yet find a form for the mere purchase of a hand gun in VA, but here's the form for a hand gun carry permit (though it might be the same). My guess is even if it's a different form, the questions related to mental health issues are probably the same: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads/SP-248_revised_07-1-2006.pdf

Based on my reading, the VT shooter could truthfully answer "no" to all of the mental health questions. He hadn't been involuntarily committed, he hadn't been formally adjudicated as mentally ill, and he hadn't received residential mental health treatment (he was referred to outpatient treatment).

 

[Green Tea]

Dannielle1: That was a very powerful narrative of the day. Wow.

 

[Green Tea]

Geoff M: I have no idea what the form asks, although they did show it on the local news when they talked to the gun store owner. He said *He* wouldn't have sold the boy the gun had he checked that box. He says the kid had the right to buy the gun, which he did have legally. The legality of the transaction isn't in question. The store owner simply said he wouldn't have sold him one if he'd checked the box asking about mental illness. I'm just reporting from a local perspective; we live Tech stories every day here. These days they are a whole lot sadder than the usual.

 

[DISNEYDUET]

Just a reminder of what today is all about!

 

[Deb in IA]

The fact it is unscientific makes it useless. To project results (which is exactly what you are trying to do), you need to prove your sample is representative of the entire universe in discussion . The ABC study can't do that - and just because you like the results doesn't make them fact.

You are WRONG about what I was "trying to do". (I can use big bold words too ).

I'll make it very simple:
1. The vast majority of people who participated in an ABC News poll did not think the video should have been aired.
2. The state police said that the video "added NO NEW INFORMATION". (You forgot that part).

 

[wuv tigger]

The rest of the world is going on about their day

while

other begin the process of saying goodbye to their family member

 

[CottontailCurl]

Just a reminder of what today is all about!

That is just a beautiful picture, unity.

 

[bsnyder]

You are WRONG about what I was "trying to do". (I can use big bold words too ).

I'll make it very simple:
1. The vast majority of people who participated in an ABC News poll did not think the video should have been aired.
2. The state police said that the video "added NO NEW INFORMATION". (You forgot that part).

apropos of the poll, Deb, from Howard Kurtz, media critic at the Washington Post:

In all the years I've been chronicling the media, I have rarely seen the tidal wave of resentment that has washed over television organizations that showed the now-infamous Cho video. In the minds of many Americans, this was a horribly offensive act, and no amount of explanation about the obligations of journalism is going to change that view.

Unscientific, yes. But I think he's completely accurate.

 

[Deb in IA]

apropos of the poll, Deb, from Howard Kurtz, media critic at the Washington Post:



Unscientific, yes. But I think he's completely accurate.

And this is echoed by Siva Vaidhyanathan, MSNBC correspondant and Associate Professor of Culture and Communication at NYU.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18220512/

Airing the video ultimately was disrespectful to the victims and their families. It also was exploitative of Cho's condition and that of all severely mentally ill people.

The effect of releasing such material goes far beyond the simple circuit of broadcaster and viewer. Now loosed upon the world, people soon will morph these files into all sorts of statements to serve their own agendas, both positive and negative.

So, does this video collage help or hurt the cause of confronting mental illness in this country? I am afraid the latter. Even if NBC News did not intend to do such harm, it did.

 

[welovedisneyx4]

we live Tech stories every day here. These days they are a whole lot sadder than the usual.

Isn't that the truth?

 

[mandy200587]

We had a vigil last night in our town and today at noon every bell throughout the state will toll all over in a moment of silence.

Governor Phil Bredesen today declared Friday, April 20, 2007 a statewide Day of Mourning for victims of the Virginia Tech shootings, joining Tennessee with other states expressing sorrow and support for the families and friends of those who were killed and injured.
" Our thoughts and prayers are with the Virginia Tech community and the loved ones of the victims in this national tragedy," Bredesen said. "Not one of us is untouched by this unthinkable event, and Tennesseans join the nation in prayerful support for our neighboring state and the friends and families who are coping with the loss."
Governor Bredesen has ordered that the State Carillon toll at 12 Noon on April 20th in observance of the tragedy and he is requesting that bells ring simultaneously at government buildings, churches and wherever appropriate so Tennesseans can join together in observing a moment of silence for the victims.
Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine declared Friday a statewide Day of Mourning in Virginia and sent a letter to other governors asking them to join the effort.
" As this tragedy impacts not just Virginia, I encourage you to consider standing with Virginia," Governor Kaine wrote in an April 18 letter to other governors.

​

​

Also I know a banner and registry that will be sent to was signed by all the students and community.

I have my maroon and orange ribbon to wear today.​

​

 

[Mickeyistheman]

This week has just been terrible, I don't even know what to say anymore.

When are things going to get better?

How do we stop this from happening again?

And please stop showing this guy on TV! I don't understand why they had to show us the tape, it is EXACTLY what he wanted that is why he sent it to the news. He got his wish and what did the FBI or Police "learn" from this. NOTHING! We already knew he was mentally unstable and showing the world this tape was not nessessary.

 

[Green Tea]

What a happy face on one of the injured students. She is looking out her hospital window at the Hokie band serenading those still inpatient.

OT But How, oh how do I make pictures appear as pictures??

 

[mandy200587]

click on the little mountain picture when you post

 

[beachblanket]

1. The vast majority of people who participated in an ABC News poll did not think the video should have been aired.

Fine, but what is the exact point of that "factiod"? Anonymous visitors to a particular web site (their ages? Incomes? Geographic distribution? Educational attainment?) voted a certain way. So what? By repeatedly citing this "poll," you are in essence implying it is somehow "meaningful".

Problem is, it isn't - ABC may care about "representing" the attitudes of the visitors to their afterthought version of a news website, but at least they have the sense to admit polls there aren't "scientific," which is layperson code for "results are not projectable," which to knowledgable readers translates into "useless."

Instead, we'll wait for real research on this by entities like Gallup and Roper.

2. The state police said that the video "added NO NEW INFORMATION". (You forgot that part).

I never got involved in any discussion of that tangent, so I don't know why you're even referring to it . The issue here was the media public release of the so-called "manifesto," not the investigate assessment.

And here's a message to ABC (and certain others) from VT:

What a happy face on one of the injured students. She is looking out her hospital window at the Hokie band serenading those still inpatient.