Saying grace...

[my4kids]

I never said it should be kept private. I never said it was offensive. I just said that I think its pretenious.

I don't have problems or think twice about people wearing religous garb or a cross around their neck or whatever.

I do think ( ) when I see Christians praying in public -- I have never seen another religious group praying in a way that is obvious to the strangers around them.

And I'm not the one who thinks people should pray in private --that was Jesus.I just am not impressed when I see the display in public and I do think there might be more of a "look at us --we're Christians" going on.

You are incredibly misinformed, therefore your post doesn't hold much water. You do realize Muslims stop what they are doing several times a day and drop to their knees and pray in the diraection of Mecca? (Whereever they are even in the street) If the clock stikes that hour and you are in a Muslim ciy, it is going to be pretty obvious all the men are praying. And when did Jesus say we should keep prayer private? Gee, I missed that one in my Bible. Jesus said " When two or more of you are gathered in prayer, I will be with you" Sorry, I was so "pretentious" as to quote scripture for you.

You just seem predisposed to dislike Christianity and anything about it.

 

[my4kids]

It doesn't offend me, but I do think its rude when my Christian friends insisted on saying grace both at their house and mine when they know my family is not. I also thought what the OP was suggesting was rude.

Why does it freak you out so much that I think its just as rude to insits on making a big producation out of saying grace when you choose to have dinner with people you know are not Christians?

I don't hide actively hide my non faith, but when people would assume we were Christians we would rarely correct them because we did not want to be "witnessed".

Go ahead, make a big show of what a Christian you are by praying in public. It won't offend me, I'll just think you're "protesting too much."

I would not say Grace with you at my table because " I assumed you were Christian" I would say grace because I am truly thankful that I have food to eat. Believe me I've seen times when it wasn't all that easy for me to get enough to eat....I'm sure not going to enjoy my gifts without saying thank-you. You just wouldn't really factor into it...it's not all about you.

 

[my4kids]

If food is involved..I'll take the invite. And I promise to sit quietly while you do whatever you must do for Shabbat .

I didn't get an invite!!!!!!!! I love Jewish food!!!!!!!!!! I'll even make my husband wear a yamaca sp?.

 

[chobie]

I would not say Grace with you at my table because " I assumed you were Christian" I would say grace because I am truly thankful that I have food to eat. Believe me I've seen times when it wasn't all that easy for me to get enough to eat....I'm sure not going to enjoy my gifts without saying thank-you. You just wouldn't really factor into it...it's not all about you.

Actually when I said people assume we were Christians, it was because they assumed we were Christians. They would ask us which church we went to, not IF we went to church. The would mention religion and then say things like "You are Christian, right?"

So, in those cases, which is what I was referring to, it was about ME.

 

[my4kids]

It's a good day to get together with friends and family and reflect upon the good things we have and have achieved. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talking to a god.

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

 

[chobie]

So there's nothing you get annoyed about others judging you about in restaurants -- I guess you're more easygoing than I am.

I must be, because I know the mere presence of my children in certain restaurants is enough to get other people judging me, but I don't care. I bring them anyway.

 

[chobie]

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

Um that is no weirder than giving thanks to an invisible, made-up being.

 

[chobie]

You are incredibly misinformed, therefore your post doesn't hold much water. You do realize Muslims stop what they are doing several times a day and drop to their knees and pray in the diraection of Mecca? (Whereever they are even in the street) If the clock stikes that hour and you are in a Muslim ciy, it is going to be pretty obvious all the men are praying. And when did Jesus say we should keep prayer private? Gee, I missed that one in my Bible. Jesus said " When two or more of you are gathered in prayer, I will be with you" Sorry, I was so "pretentious" as to quote scripture for you.

You just seem predisposed to dislike Christianity and anything about it.

I said I have never seen that in public or in a restuarant, or in my own home or others, NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

And you must have missed the part of the bible where Jesus said "and when you pray don't pray on the sidewalks like the heathen do...pray in a closet".

But, the beauty of the bible is that it can be interpreted to say whatever you like.

Matthew 6:5 ... when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, [so] that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

 

[my4kids]

I must be, because I know the mere presence of my children in certain restaurants is enough to get other people judging me, but I don't care. I bring them anyway.

whoaa , thats a whole nuther thread altogether on the restaurant board with the have kids against the don't have kids and whether we should be rude enough to even think about taking our KIDS to a restaurant in DISNEY! We should jump over to that board and start that pot stirring, because we could be on the same side of that issue. (ofcourse, I would also be making my kids quitely say Grace before eating)

 

[my4kids]

I said I have never seen that in public or in a restuarant, or in my own home or others, NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

And you must have missed the part of the bible where Jesus said "and when you pray don't pray on the sidewalks like the heathen do...pray in a closet".

But, the beauty of the bible is that it can be interpreted to say whatever you like.

Matthew 6:5 ... when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, [so] that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

We were talking about praying in my own home. I'm not on the streets holding up signs. and you're right about interpreting it different ways....I read that as "pray privately to God all the time, it doesn't need to be a production" but I'm still not going to STOP praying because it might offend.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I said I have never seen that in public or in a restuarant, or in my own home or others, NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

And you must have missed the part of the bible where Jesus said "and when you pray don't pray on the sidewalks like the heathen do...pray in a closet".

But, the beauty of the bible is that it can be interpreted to say whatever you like.

Matthew 6:5 ... when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, [so] that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

I agree that I shouldn't be praying in public if my intent is to show other people how religious I am. That is clearly pride and self-righteousness and is sinful according to my faith. However, bowing my head before eating my chicken fingers at WDW because I'm thankful for the ability to be there and enjoy those chicken fingers shouldn't be something I need to be ashamed of, or be concerned about doing because if someone else noticed they might be offended. Why are they watching me eat the chicken fingers anyway?? Don't they have their own family and friends to be with?? Am I really that interesting?? (news to me )

 

[chobie]

I agree that I shouldn't be praying in public if my intent is to show other people how religious I am. That is clearly pride and self-righteousness and is sinful according to my faith. However, bowing my head before eating my chicken fingers at WDW because I'm thankful for the ability to be there and enjoy those chicken fingers shouldn't be something I need to be ashamed of, or be concerned about doing because if someone else noticed they might be offended. Why are they watching me eat the chicken fingers anyway?? Don't they have their own family and friends to be with?? Am I really that interesting?? (news to me )

Never said you should not do it or be ashamed. I specifically in this threadsaid I don't stare, visably roll my eyes or make comments out loud about it. All I said is when I see a people in resturuants bowing there heads and saying grace in awya that is obviously visable to the people around them, I think ( ).

That's it. Don't read any more into it. Do what makes you happy and don't worry about what us others think.

And for the last time: I NEVER SAID IT WAS OFFENSIVE!

 

[chobie]

We were talking about praying in my own home. I'm not on the streets holding up signs. and you're right about interpreting it different ways....I read that as "pray privately to God all the time, it doesn't need to be a production" but I'm still not going to STOP praying because it might offend.

You should do what you want. I don't think its offensive to pray in public. I do think its rude for people to invite non Christians over to dinner and engage in a big, rutual grace saying because it does make some of us uncomfortable. Just as I would not expect to invite Christians over to my house and start digging into the food before giving them a moment to say grace, because I would not want them to feel uncomfortable in MY house.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Never said you should not do it or be ashamed. I specifically in this threadsaid I don't stare, visably roll my eyes or make comments out loud about it. All I said is when I see a people in resturuants bowing there heads and saying grace in awya that is obviously visable to the people around them, I think ( ).

That's it. Don't read any more into it. Do what makes you happy and don't worry about what us others think.

And for the last time: I NEVER SAID IT WAS OFFENSIVE!

Ok, you don't think it's offensive but you are judging those folks, even though they don't know it. If someone sees you NOT praying before your meal and thinks , poor heathen-wouldn't that be wrong of them to judge you in that way?

 

[chobie]

Ok, you don't think it's offensive but you are judging those folks, even though they don't know it. If someone sees you NOT praying before your meal and thinks , poor heathen-wouldn't that be wrong of them to judge you in that way?

Absolutely not, they can think what they want. Isn't that the problem everyone has with being PC, that we are being told what we can and cannot think?

Now it would be wrong of them to say poor heathens, lets pass a law or constitutional amendment to stop them from not believing and make it a crime to be non Christian.

All I have done here is told you a thought I have when I see a particual type of behavior and I'm being ganged up on for daring to have that thought.
Whatever...

And when I was still a practicing Catholic, I can guarantee you there were other Christians out there who when they saw me make the sign of the cross, though "Oh one of those saint-worshipping Catholics who don't know the real way." I know people thought this because I had many Christian, but not Catholic friends tell me this.

 

[cardaway]

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

How about the other people at the table?

That post was really quite rude. Why post that about what other people are giving thanks for?

 

[my4kids]

How about the other people at the table?

That post was really quite rude. Why post that about what other people are giving thanks for?

I guess I did have a bit of rude tone there. Honestly, I wasn't passing judgement, I just really never thought about it. I guess I thought atheists were just going through the motions with their families and thinking it was a good time for turkey...really, I just never thought about it....I was just truly SHOCKED to come to the realization, that people would self-worship like that. I'm sure it happens. Anyway not trying to be rude, just sitting here with my jaw on the floor. I've lived a pretty sheltered life and haven't been around many non-religious people. Been around lots of different faiths, but not any non-faiths. It was just a lightbulb moment for me. Sorry.

By the way Cardaway, I was wondering when you would show up....welcome to the party.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Absolutely not, they can think what they want. Isn't that the problem everyone has with being PC, that we are being told what we can and cannot think?

Now it would be wrong of them to say poor heathens, lets pass a law or constitutional amendment to stop them from not believing and make it a crime to benon Christian.

All I have done here is told you a thought I have when I see a particual type of behavior and I'm being ganged up on for daring to have that thought.
Whatever...

And when I was still a practicicng Catholic, I can guarantee you there were other Christians out there who when they saw me make the sign of the cross, though "Oh one of those saint-worshipping Catholics who don't know the real way." I know people thought this because I had many Christian, but not Catholic friends tell me this.

My point is, that it seems the biggest issue that Non-believers have with Christians is that they find them judgemental. However, they find no contradiction in judging their intelligence (or lack thereof) because they believe.

I've had more than a few athiests discuss how ignorant being a Christian is and more than a few Christians tell me that I'm doomed to everlasting fire because I'm Catholic. The PC revolution has brought out the thought police, but it has also brought out a reactionary tendency in some folks. People now feel that they need to defy the PC thought police by saying anything they think, no matter if it's rude to others. Neither extreme is good for anyone.

 

[cardaway]

I guess I did have a bit of rude tone there. Honestly, I wasn't passing judgement, I just really never thought about it.

I saw the other post about how you feel about people giving thanks, and having a Thanksgiving if they are not thanking your God, so that was not your only post on the subject.

You have no idea what they are giving thanks for and it was quite rude to imply what you did.

By the way Cardaway, I was wondering when you would show up....welcome to the party.

Why was that comment necessary?

 

[chobie]

My point is, that it seems the biggest issue that Non-believers have with Christians is that they find them judgemental. However, they find no contradiction in judging their intelligence (or lack thereof) because they believe.

I've had more than a few athiests discuss how ignorant being a Christian is and more than a few Christians tell me that I'm doomed to everlasting fire because I'm Catholic. The PC revolution has brought out the thought police, but it has also brought out a reactionary tendency in some folks. People now feel that they need to defy the PC thought police by saying anything they think, no matter if it's rude to others. Neither extreme is good for anyone.

Right, but this a board for people to express their thoughts, right? And that is what I am doing. I am not going up to people saying grace in public and telling them what I think, because you are right that would be very non PC and it would also be wrong.

And our problem with Christians and their judging, is that it is not enough for many of them to just judge people, the want to legislate their judgments. Can you not see the difference between thinking that homosexuality is wrong based on your religions and trying to get laws passed to discriminate against homosexuals because of the judgments you make based on your religion?

Thoughts are okay. Expressing those thoughts without being asked when those thoughts would be hurtful to others is not okay. The purpose of this board and this thread was to get people's thoughts, the OP asked for them.

Are we on the same page yet?