Saying grace...

[ckay87]

Well, I'm really late to the party here, but I just have to know, OP, what you do at weddings or funerals when prayers are said? Certainly you don't run for the door?

 

[Maleficent13]

IMHO, because ya'll asked ( ) ...I'm pretty sure people at me on a daily basis...for my clothes, my shoes, what I buy at the grocery store, what I eat for lunch, the amount of $$ I spend at the bookstore, whatever. Bottom line is, they can think whatever they want. Heck, they can even SAY whatever they want. They can at me all they want, and judge the heck out of me. None of that is going to bother me, because they have absolutely no affect on me or my life. If chobie wants to think about someone praying in a restaurant, hookares? If my4kids wants to be shocked that some people actually take credit for their own accomplishments, hookares?

 

[my4kids]

I saw the other post about how you feel about people giving thanks, and having a Thanksgiving if they are not thanking your God, so that was not your only post on the subject.

You have no idea what they are giving thanks for and it was quite rude to imply what you did.



Why was that comment necessary?

Because I rarely see a thread that discusses religion in any capacity without you being there...it was said in a friendly tone.

And not my God, just anything sprititual, and my first post was what prompted someone to say I'm patting my own self on the back at thanksgiving to which I responded "wow" so it was all in the same conversation....anyway, you don't have to like it, it just honestly surprised me.

 

[Fitswimmer]

And our problem with Christians and their judging, is that it is not enough for many of them to just judge people, the want to legislate their judgments. Can you not see the difference between thinking that homosexuality is wrong based on your religions and trying to get laws passed to discriminate against homosexuals because of the judgments you make based on your religion?

Thoughts are okay. Expressing those thoughts without being asked when those thoughts would be hurtful to others is not okay. The purpose of this board and this thread was to get people's thoughts, the OP asked for them.

Are we on the same page yet?

Sort of, but not all of us want to legislate our belief system. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean I'm forced to participate. There's no conflict for me because if something is a sin according to my faith, I'm going to do my best not to do it whether civil law says it's legal or not. There's already a lot of legal things out there that I think are sinful and don't participate in.
I believe that one of the things God will judge about my life is how I treated those who believed differently than I do. To me, bigotry, intolerance and hatred of other people based on their choices is sinful. That doesn't mean that I would condone their choice for myself, but treating the person with anything less than respect is sinful. I've been hearing that lesson in sermons for 20 years. Jesus didn't say "Love one another as long as they do My Will." he said "Love on Another".

 

[orljustin]

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

Why not? We did all the hard work. Why don't you take some credit for what you have accomplished?

 

[cardaway]

Because I rarely see a thread that discusses religion in any capacity without you being there...it was said in a friendly tone.

Are going to try and sell me a bridge now too?

 

[orljustin]

I was just truly SHOCKED to come to the realization, that people would self-worship like that.

Hey, there's that typical condescending Christian attitude.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Hey, there's that typical condescending Christian attitude.

Hey, there's an overgeneralization.

 

[beck0321]

I haven't even read ANY replies so this has probably been said a thousand times.
I think instead of excusing yourself during grace, just sit there and don't participate. You don't have to do the sign of the cross or say Amen so it shouldn't be too big of a deal. Usually grace is pretty short. It's just words and if it doesn't mean anything to you, just be polite, sit there and don't listen. I wouldn't draw negative attention to myself just to make a point.
Also as for grace in your house. If you don't want it said, take it upon yourself to say your own kind of "grace." Just make a toast to everyone attending and thank them for coming, say your so happy everyone could be together and that kind of thing. You don't have to acknowledge God but you can still make everyone feel welcome and warm. I think as a host this would be the appropriate thing to do anyway.

 

[PoohnPglet]

my4kids are you saying that from this post-

It's a good day to get together with friends and family and reflect upon the good things we have and have achieved. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talking to a god.

you get this?

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

and this?

I guess I did have a bit of rude tone there. Honestly, I wasn't passing judgement, I just really never thought about it. I guess I thought atheists were just going through the motions with their families and thinking it was a good time for turkey...really, I just never thought about it....I was just truly SHOCKED to come to the realization, that people would self-worship like that. I'm sure it happens. Anyway not trying to be rude, just sitting here with my jaw on the floor. I've lived a pretty sheltered life and haven't been around many non-religious people. Been around lots of different faiths, but not any non-faiths. It was just a lightbulb moment for me. Sorry.

By the way Cardaway, I was wondering when you would show up....welcome to the party.

You really think that non-believers are self-worshipping and giving thanks to themselves because they do not assign their gratitude to a specific "deity"?

 

[Fitswimmer]

If a non-believer wants to be thankful for their own abilities in getting where they are, how is that hurting me? I don't get the outrage over that. An athiest doesn't believe in God, so why would he thank a God he doesn't believe in for the good things in his life?

 

[chobie]

Sort of, but not all of us want to legislate our belief system. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean I'm forced to participate. There's no conflict for me because if something is a sin according to my faith, I'm going to do my best not to do it whether civil law says it's legal or not. There's already a lot of legal things out there that I think are sinful and don't participate in.
I believe that one of the things God will judge about my life is how I treated those who believed differently than I do. To me, bigotry, intolerance and hatred of other people based on their choices is sinful. That doesn't mean that I would condone their choice for myself, but treating the person with anything less than respect is sinful. I've been hearing that lesson in sermons for 20 years. Jesus didn't say "Love one another as long as they do My Will." he said "Love on Another".

Right, but when we non beleivers talks about judging we are talking about in connection with trying to legislate those judgments -not the actual thought itself. And you are well aware that many of people with your belief system are not so respectful of others. And it is disprectful to put your non-believieng house guests in an uncomfortable position of having to sit thru a ritual grace-saying.


So, we are on the same page that we both treat people with different beliefs respectfully, but we both think inwardly that we do not condone their choice (an being a Christian is a choice). All I'm doing is not condoning a choice that people make to pray in public in an obivious manner.

And again, if you read my posts on this thread I am treating Christians with respect, especially the ones I know personally. And I treat the strangers praying in public with respect by ignoring them. The random thought that goes thru my head about their sincerity is just that -- a random thought.

 

[noodleknitter]

I just never thought about it....I was just truly SHOCKED to come to the realization, that people would self-worship like that. I'm sure it happens.

Self worship? I don't know of anyone (who isn't under psychiatric care) that believes they are in full power of all that happens in their lives. If I land an incredible job, is it because I am perfect, and no others are? No. It is because circumstances came together that made me the right fit at the right time. If I win the lottery, it isn't because I know all, and am in control of how those little balls will come up the chute. If I give birth to a healthy baby girl I am thankful for her health, but I wasn't the cause of her good health.

It isn't self worship. It is realizing that it isn't all about me, and being thankful for all the good that is in my world...in spite of me!

 

[cardaway]

Self worship? I don't know of anyone (who isn't under psychiatric care) that believes they are in full power of all that happens in their lives. If I land an incredible job, is it because I am perfect, and no others are? No. It is because circumstances came together that made me the right fit at the right time. If I win the lottery, it isn't because I know all, and am in control of how those little balls will come up the chute. If I give birth to a healthy baby girl I am thankful for her health, but I wasn't the cause of her good health.

It isn't self worship. It is realizing that it isn't all about me, and being thankful for all the good that is in my world...in spite of me!

Exactly. The posts about "self worship" just go to prove that there are equal amounts of rude posters and posts from the religious side of things.

 

[chobie]

Exactly. The posts about "self worship" just go to prove that there are equal amounts of rude posters and posts from the religious side of things.

Right but when they do it they are being un PC and that's a good thing. But when we do it we're just horrible.

 

[beck0321]

Wow. I never thought about it. So, there are people out there having Thanksgiving and they are giving thanks to themselves for what they have acheived and collected while they have been on Earth? Wow.

Maybe you are thinking of the way an atheist celebrates Thanksgiving in the wrong way. Could this possibly be true as well?:

If an atheist wants to celebrate Thanksgiving, I wouldn't go as far as to say they are "giving thanks to themselves." I am sure they are celebrating just because of the fact that they are thankful they can be with their family and have a nice family meal. Just because they don't thank God for it, doesn't mean they aren't still thankful they can spend quality family time on Thanksgiving and be with the ones they love. An atheist's life doesn't revolve around God, like a Christian's would. When you say "I am thankful we can share this meal together," you are thanking God for that. When an atheist says the same thing, they are just simply thankful. It's not about being self-centered, IMO.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Right but when they do it they are being un PC and that's a good thing. But when we do it we're just horrible.

You sure do paint with a wide brush.

 

[chobie]

You sure do paint with a wide brush.

Yet another non PC thing for me to do. You should be thrilled.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Yet another non PC thing for me to do. You should be thrilled.

I'm overjoyed with self-righteous pleasure.

 

[chobie]

I'm overjoyed with self-righteous pleasure.

Glad to be of service. Merry Christmas.