Run Over BY ECV

[mgilmer]

You see, we piddle, twiddle, and resolve
Not one damn thing do we solve
Piddle, twiddle, and resolve
Nothing's ever solved!

But I am not posting either!

 

[madenon]

Comparing TO's wish to ban ECV's out of stores to the holocaust might be a strecth.

However the holocaust started out exactly this way. Banning certain groups of people from doing certain things. There's been a lot of attention (and rightly so) for the jews murdered during that regime, some for the gypsies and of course a lot of attention for all of those murdered because of their work for the resistance. What a lot of people do not know is that disabled people were given the same treatment and a too many of them even a more painfull one. It started with them being banned from a store, than came public life, then came inclosing them in homes, than came the act of murdering them. If they were "lucky" they were sent to the gass-chambers directly. If they were not so "lucky" they were used as living guinea pigs (spelling?) for very cruel and painfull experiments by Mengele and his followers.

OK, comparing is a stretch. But; what and who can assure us that it is "only" banning people using an ECV from stores (because YES, there are those that wont be able to go in without the ECV) and it wont devellop into banning them from public life in total and going even further? The Germans were so sure it was "only" banning the disabled, jews and so many other from those who were "bothering" them. We all know where that story found it's end. What makes us better? Because we know for sure we won't go there?

Now, I'm not saying that in 3 years the USA will have it's own holocaust if TO gets his way. I'm merely stating that there are things none of us know for sure and we should think about it and learn from history.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Hey everyone! Firstly, I'm impressed that this discussion has gone on so long with only a minimal number of 'not-so-friendly' posts. I just wanted to point out something that's sort of half been said already (if I don't phrase it very eloquently, please forgive me):

The stores are hard to get around, as they are not ADA compliant. It is particularly hard to negotiate an ECV around these tight aisles, due to the vehicle's length and turning circle. This difficulty can sometimes lead to the person getting stuck, being unable to leave the shop easily or being in an accident. Surely, if someone was capable of walking around the shop comfortably enough without the ECV, they would park the ECV outside and save themselves the hassle, embarrassment and sometimes pain involved in taking it with them? Therefore, shouldn't we conclude that the majority of people taking ECVs into the shop are doing so because they couldn't enjoy the shop otherwise?

Yes, there are jerks on ECVs, just as there are jerks in wheelchairs, jerks with visual impairments, jerks with hearing problems and jerks who are TABs (Temporarily Able-Bodied). This does not mean that all of the above are jerks, nor does it mean that someone in any one 'category' is exempt from being a jerk. The world contains jerks.

OP, I'm very sorry that your foot got hurt and I'm glad nothing was broken. The thing is, it could just as easily have been someone on foot, using a walker or in a wheelchair who hurt you, it just happened not to be this time. I understand your wanting a positive change to be made to prevent other people having to go through the pain you did, but I don't think that a blanket ban on a certain type of assistive device would help.

Yes, making the shops ADA compliant would be lovely (I know I'd like to be able to wheel around without getting a loads of T-shirts flapping in my face), and yes, maybe Disney could afford to have a couple fewer stand of TMed plush, but the thing is, it's unlikely to happen.

I think the people who have suggested viewing your holiday with a little more fairy dust are as close to a practical solution as we're going to get. If all of us (whether on wheels or off) just try to be a little more understanding and observant, hopefully such injuries will be less likely to occur, as will the negative feelings that often seem to follow an accident with a person from a different 'category'.

Phew, that was a long post! Anyhoo, fairy dust for everyone, and here's to a calm and thought provoking discussion!

 

[DISNEY FIX]

The only thing that could make this get really ugly is if someone mentioned.....













POOL HOPPING!

 

[madenon]

Pool hopping? With an ECV? Now that should solve the problem! Let them hop into the first pool with the ECV, and they'll never get to pool number 2. Boy, solve 2 problems in one; give everybody an ecv! Nobody runs into pedestrians anymore AND no more poolhopping as ll the ecv's will break down in pool1. Woehoe!

 

[OneLittleSpark]

It would of course mean that the pools became rather shallow, as everyone would be walking on the broken ECVs.

 

[Michigan]

As a parent of 2 daughters that can’t stand or walk I have always thought that if you are in a rented wheelchair or ECV you should have to park them for shows and stores. Now before someone gets all bent over the shows part and telling me how they can't walk down stairs there are seats where the wheelchair seating is but by them moving into a seat it frees a spot for someone that has no choice but to sit in one of the wheelchair spots. However when I say this I always get flack from other disabled people that rent them. But as I have stated before if you don’t need it to get there then you should be able to get out of it.

 

[minnie61650]

As a parent of 2 daughters that can’t stand or walk I have always thought that if you are in a rented wheelchair or ECV you should have to park them for shows and stores. Now before someone gets all bent over the shows part and telling me how they can't walk down stairs there are seats where the wheelchair seating is but by them moving into a seat it frees a spot for someone that has no choice but to sit in one of the wheelchair spots. However when I say this I always get flack from other disabled people that rent them. But as I have stated before if you don’t need it to get there then you should be able to get out of it.

I rent my ECV from offsite because I need it to get there. However, I am able to walk about 50-100 feet with DH's help so I will often park my EVC against the back wall at a show and take a seat thus leaving the WC seating for those who need the space.

 

[NUguyinCrew]

Aisles?? We dont need no stinkin' aisles!!

There, issue solved...

 

[KPeveler]

As a parent of 2 daughters that can’t stand or walk I have always thought that if you are in a rented wheelchair or ECV you should have to park them for shows and stores. Now before someone gets all bent over the shows part and telling me how they can't walk down stairs there are seats where the wheelchair seating is but by them moving into a seat it frees a spot for someone that has no choice but to sit in one of the wheelchair spots. However when I say this I always get flack from other disabled people that rent them. But as I have stated before if you don’t need it to get there then you should be able to get out of it.

I may need to rent an ECV, but for some shows I will need to stay in it. I cannot sit on hard benches, especially those without a back (like at fantasmic). But I agree that if you can walk without pain (if you are using the ECV for stamina issues and not pain issues), it would be polite to walk to a seat rather than take up a wc spot. if you can transfer, you should do so, to allow room for those who cannt transfer.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Aisles?? We dont need no stinkin' aisles!!

There, issue solved...

 

[Coopsmum77]

OK, comparing is a stretch. But; what and who can assure us that it is "only" banning people using an ECV from stores (because YES, there are those that wont be able to go in without the ECV) and it wont devellop into banning them from public life in total and going even further? The Germans were so sure it was "only" banning the disabled, jews and so many other from those who were "bothering" them. We all know where that story found it's end. What makes us better? Because we know for sure we won't go there?

Now, I'm not saying that in 3 years the USA will have it's own holocaust if TO gets his way. I'm merely stating that there are things none of us know for sure and we should think about it and learn from history.

This concept is the slippery slope, once A occurs it becomes easier for B to happen. Not all Germans were Nazis, but most stood by and let them do what thet wanted.

The eugenics that Hitler practised was a U.S. export.

The second largest eugenics movement was in the United States. Beginning with Connecticut in 1896, many states enacted marriage laws with eugenic criteria, prohibiting anyone who was "epileptic, imbecile or feeble-minded" from marrying. In 1898 Charles B. Davenport, a prominent American biologist, began as director of a biological research station based in Cold Spring Harbor where he experimented with evolution in plants and animals. In 1904 Davenport received funds from the Carnegie Institution to found the Station for Experimental Evolution. The Eugenics Record Office opened in 1910 while Davenport and Harry H. Laughlin began to promote eugenics.[21]

During the 20th century, researchers became interested in the idea that mental illness could run in families and conducted a number of studies to document the heritability of such illnesses as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and depression. Their findings were used by the eugenics movement as proof for its cause. State laws were written in the late 1800s and early 1900s to prohibit marriage and force sterilization of the mentally ill in order to prevent the "passing on" of mental illness to the next generation. These laws were upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1927 and were not abolished until the mid-20th century. By 1945 over 45,000 mentally ill individuals in the United States had been forcibly sterilized.
from Wikipedia

 

[amykathleen2005]

What if ECV's were not allowed in stores but every store offered a smaller transfer wheelchair that could be used inside the store and CM assistance pushing the wheelchair through the store if requested?

 

[dream trip]

Really if someone is in a wheel chair or some other motorized transportation it is your responsiblity to watch out and be careful. If you are close enough to get run over...then you are too close.
Hey your at Disney...relax and feel the magic!!!!!

 

[KPeveler]

I agree that it should be an option to leave DISNEY ECvs outside, but not ECVs that people bring from home. a lot of people have special seating requirements (like me), and you cant bar me from a store b/c I cannot use a disney w/c.

also i think it would be more expensive to pay a CM to push people around than to redo the stores! right now it is disney policy that a CM cannot help a person into, out of, or in a wheelchair (for liability reasons)

 

[Mickiethepooh]

As a parent of 2 daughters that can’t stand or walk I have always thought that if you are in a rented wheelchair or ECV you should have to park them for shows and stores. Now before someone gets all bent over the shows part and telling me how they can't walk down stairs there are seats where the wheelchair seating is but by them moving into a seat it frees a spot for someone that has no choice but to sit in one of the wheelchair spots. However when I say this I always get flack from other disabled people that rent them. But as I have stated before if you don’t need it to get there then you should be able to get out of it.

Regarding the idea that if you made it to the park to rent one you can get out of it for shops, shows whatever.
At the handicapped parking area in the park there are a group of complimentary wheelchairs with the sole purpose of getting the guest from the car to the area to RENT a wheelchair or scooter.
True people who rent scooters can at least transfer or they would be in their own chair, I always bring my own even though I can stand to transfer and walk a few feet.
The fact they rented in the park does not in any way imply that they are capable of walking in stores or to seating in shows.

I think part of the problem on these threads is that the people on these boards, that NEED the accomodations take umbrage with the "let's ban these things" type threads for obvious reason, and the people who are the real fakers, and believe me we dislike em more than the able bodied public, IF they are reading on here they are not going to post are they. If they are not reading on here well they are not going to stop even if they do read about the abuse.

Of course everyone on here is put out by all the negative [truely negative] reports of problems. that said accidents happen even when people are not reckless and their can be fault on either or both sides when it does. Walking people can bump each other or step on each other as well.

 

[kydisneyfans]

Post deleted

 

[Mickiethepooh]

What if ECV's were not allowed in stores but every store offered a smaller transfer wheelchair that could be used inside the store and CM assistance pushing the wheelchair through the store if requested?

You guys just don't get it do you. Not everyone CAN transfer,
Wheelchairs do not fit in those aisles any more than the scooters do, not everyone fits in a small transfer chair, being pushed through a store means being able to clearly communicate with a strange person behind you it means feeling rushed to get your purchase and get out, not to browse in the store. etc. etc. etc.
The stores need to comply with the law that would go a long way in fixing this problem.

 

[amykathleen2005]

I do not think there is a need to be harsh. I just think that people should at least make possible suggestions instead of just complaining. We will not get anywhere arguing but instead to work to solve the problem.

 

[Michigan]

The fact they rented in the park does not in any way imply that they are capable of walking in stores or to seating in shows.

Then explain to me if they don't own their own chair how do they function in everyday life? Without a chair they would be walking during their everyday life wouldn't they? This is a concept I don't understand because without their chairs my dd's would have to crawl.