Run Over BY ECV

[KPeveler]

northie, i do not think that mr.alec was saying that you shouldn't use a scooter, nor making a generalization about overweight people using it. what i think he meant is that there are a lot of people who use the scooters due to mild discomfort or inconvenience. If you use one because of pain, then that is a real reason to use it. Also, if you use it to prevent pain that would be otherwise inevitable, then go right ahead!

i agree using a scooter/chair is hard work, and i would hope that everyone who thinks it is such fun go and try using one for a day, and see how you are treated... i think you will find it much less "cool."

 

[bullet875]

actually, I believe that the opposite is true mr. alec. I think you have it completely backwards (and that is my opinion, not trying to be mean!).

As someone with a degenerative invisible condition, I whole heartedly agree with you - laziness is NO excuse to use a scooter. it means that people like me are less likely to be believed. people assume because i am so young I cannot possibly be sick, so therefore i am faking.

however, i think that more people need them than the opposite, but unfortunately there is no real way to tell.

all i ask of people is that even if you think the person is faking - give them the benefit of the doubt. i will use a chair in disney, but i will walk at the water parks (although i will use the lazy river to get around) cause chairs cant be used in water (obviously )... just cause you see me walking a few feet does not mean that i can walk a mile. just something to consider!

Very true. And even for the obese people you see riding the ECVs, you don't know if they are using the vehicle just because they are obese or if they are obese due to a medical condition (certain use of steriods or antirejection meds can cause severe obesity or give the appearance of such due to water retention) or lack of exercise because they can't walk.

As for being disbaled and not looking it at first glance....my DL dad looked healthy and vibrant even at 78...until you looked closely and saw the amputations that he had due to diabetes (half of both feet and his brace (neuropathy would cause his knee to buckle and give way unexpectedly. He wore a brace to support and lock his knee in place). He continued to wear full shoes on both feet so at first you wouldn't notice is condiditon. He could walk short distances with a cane, but to get around WDW he'd need a wheelchair or ECV.

What I do think that WDW should do is invest in smaller models...there so many ECV models around now that are much shorter and slimmer and easier to steer than the models they have now and would fit better in tight spaces.

They also need ot make sure that some of the young tour group kids don't get their hands on the ECVS...I've seen several tour group drag races down Main Street.

 

[KPeveler]

What I do think that WDW should do is invest in smaller models...there so many ECV models around now that are much shorter and slimmer and easier to steer than the models they have now and would fit better in tight spaces.

They also need ot make sure that some of the young tour group kids don't get their hands on the ECVS...I've seen several tour group drag races down Main Street.

I agree about the smaller models! And Disney does not allow anyone under 18 to have their scooters, and most rental places are the same. Sometimes a child will bring their own from home (if they have cerebal palsy for example), but if you see kids using them, tell a CM. That is a major safety issue, even more so than most people who have trouble driving ECVs.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Quick history lesson. Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while on a run, so I can't figure out how he would play into a discussion about runners needing ecv's later in life.

Ergo, running isn’t necessarily as healthy as it seems. But if you go back and read my post, that was a side comment followed immediately by my actual point.

We've made it to page 7 without a shutdown for those that placed bets.

I know We're WAY past my 4.5 pages... So where do I send my money?

 

[hallie615]

(I wish we had an extra butter icon!!)

 

[mrsnj91]

My oh my. I have to say that I was rather shocked at how the OP commented. I can see the upset. I can feel the pain. But to tell people they shouldn't be allowed something as simple as shopping because they can't walk? WOW!

And then the comments of no strollers or anything else. Only thin, perfect people can go shopping at WDW? Those who need a stroller, can't walk, can't see, overweight, etc....well they should just keep on chugging by and aren't allowed in a store or resturant, etc. I am amazed anyone would even being to agree with this person.

Someone said in a previous post that the OP should hope they don't ever need a wheelchair. I just sprained my foot and might not be able to walk and enjoy my vacation I have scheduled in a week and 1/2. I went to the disability section here and got some wonderful advise on wheelchairs at Disney. I am hoping I won't need it but if I do I am thankful I will be able to still enjoy my vacation with my family. I guess I should just cancel my family vacation in hopes I don't offend someone?

If I had a dime for how many times I have been run over by a shopping cart. I say we ban those too!

 

[KPeveler]

i am mostly shocked sometimes at the reactions to people in wheelchairs. I have been "moved" in stores, as if I was an inconveniently placed shopping cart. If someone asks me nicely to move, i will be more than happy to! random people touch my chair, lean on it, climb over it, etc. i just want to say, ok, you don't touch my chair, and i wont touch your behind or legs! my chair IS my legs when i am in it, so NO TOUCHY!

everyone who thinks chairs are a cool toy and a breeze should think again! i had a guy tell me in the store the other day that I have it made, cause i am in a wheelchair. what an idiot! i wanted to say, well here sir, you take my wheelchair, but you also have to take my dislocating joints and excruciating pain, k?

 

[colonels cruisers]

Just caught up on the thread...
Please get me a comfy chair and I will place my bet on 10 pages

The side bet of moving to the community board (Chuck65).. I will take Thursday 9:00 AM EDT

 

[eeyore_is#1]

Only thin, perfect people can go shopping at WDW?

Someone's child once hit me accidentally, so we'll have to make that only thin, perfect, childless people can go to WDW.

Hey, that's me!

 

[satman1962]

Boy these threads are heating up as of late. Lot's of angry Disers out there.

Where are the "what's the weather in September" threads?

 

[Praying Colonel]

Those of you who saw the 7.5 line and took the over: congrats! You're a winner! Remember to tip your dealers.

 

[Mike©]

To me, that's the real issue-not the ECV's or the Strollers-it's the fact that they cram so much stuff in those stores that that you can hardly even WALK side by side.

Exactly my point! And just about ANY of the jungle walks at AK are just as bad. I had no idea of how out of compliance Disney was with ADA regs until we took a handicapped friend with us. Used a manual wheelchair and I pushed her around the whole trip. That opened my eyes.

 

[mr.alec]

northie, i do not think that mr.alec was saying that you shouldn't use a scooter, nor making a generalization about overweight people using it. what i think he meant is that there are a lot of people who use the scooters due to mild discomfort or inconvenience. If you use one because of pain, then that is a real reason to use it. Also, if you use it to prevent pain that would be otherwise inevitable, then go right ahead!

i agree using a scooter/chair is hard work, and i would hope that everyone who thinks it is such fun go and try using one for a day, and see how you are treated... i think you will find it much less "cool."

I agree 100%. Sometimes its difficult for me to "put down" on a keyboard exacly how i feel or want to say it.

 

[Robo]

I'm still here.

Still not posting.


Thank you.

 

[Tiffer]

Just a note to say I won't be posting in this thread.

I just checking back to say that I'm still not posting on this thread.

ILLEGAL???

Not posting.

Just quoting.

Ok, that one was a post!

The DMV handicapped stickers are different- they require proof of disability because the ADA was not set up to provide for who uses the specific spaces that have been set aside. The law does not define exactly who gets to use the accommodations it sets up for (it's just a broad definition).

The DMV can ask for proof of disability (and a doctor's signature) because those spots do not level the field but instead offer "preferential" (for lack of a better word) parking for those who can not walk from the back of the lot or require extra space to get out of their vehicle (van spots...). The ADA seeks equal "access" to public spaces.

So a wheelchair or ECV makes the parks accessible to "everyone" and is about accessibility not preferential treatment. There is no perk to a wheelchair or ECV- you learn that quickly.

On another note, I don't think that threads have to be "warm and fuzzy" but when one person suggests segregation (not allowing people with ECVs into places), I feel that it is SOCIETY'S responsibility to step up and say something. The PP believed that the potential harm (or perceived harm) was great enough that a group of people should be excluded from participating- and on a much larger scale, that leads me to thinking about history including slavery, segregation, and the Holocaust. Where similar thinking by a group of people proved detrimental and in the last case deadly... While thinking of solutions is a good idea, always put yourself on the other side- what if it was you in that ECV or wheelchair that couldn't enter a building or event because of your disability?

Well worded, but comaparing it to the holocaust is a stretch! And although I agree with your overall idea, I disagree that all or even most of the people in ECV's in WDW are disabled to the level of obatining a handicapped parking pass.

It doesn't matter to me either way. I just accept that some people are disabled and really need them and it is not my place to question if they really need it or not as not all disabilities are visible. I go to WDW knowing I will encounter ECV's, psycho stroller moms, Heely's, long lines and rude people. Just part of the experience.

 

[KPeveler]

Well worded, but comaparing it to the holocaust is a stretch! And although I agree with your overall idea, I disagree that all or even most of the people in ECV's in WDW are disabled to the level of obatining a handicapped parking pass.

True, but there is much more walking in disney than in daily life. this is one reason why you see many more scooters there than at the mall, for example...

 

[DizBelle]

I wasn't going to post in this thread until I saw that.

Do you think the rights of the few should outweigh the rights of the many? I don't.

And BTW, I don't think scooters or wheelchairs should be banned from stores (the very idea is ludicrous), and I DO think that all stores should be required to make their aisles wide enough for a basic scooter to navigate - particularly at WDW, where there seem to be a higher-than-average concentration of folks on scooters.

Which attraction do you want to lose first to make extra room in the shops? Or, how much merchandise are you willing to lose so that there is just one big aisle in the store. Also, start saving your money for the increased costs.

 

[pezheadmeg]

Now that I've read through all the pages, I have to say that I'm impressed with how civil and informative this thread has gone on to be.

I think the issue with the EVCs all have to do with perceived disability. Just because someone looks healthy, doesn't mean there isn't an underlying condition. Plus, days of vacation can take a toll on any body.

I do have issues with those who rent an ECV for the first time and think that because of the EVC they are entitled to be the ones who get preference for everything. Case in point, last year there was a couple in their mid-60's in his and her EVC's waiting to get on the bus when I was staying at POFQ. Well, neither of them could figure out how to back either of their EVS up and onto the lift. Meanwhile there's about 20 other guests waiting to get onto the bus to head out for EPCOT EMHs. The dispatcher eventually called for a second bus to come and pick the crowd that had accumulated waiting for the bus. While I wasn't questionin their needs for the EVCs, what I was questioning is why would someone rent them from an offsite company, know they need to get them onto the bus, but not even think about backing them up until it was time to get onto the bus? Courtsey goes both ways . . . able bodied walkers should give it, but those using assistive devices need to understand hodling up a group of able bodies might very well cause tension.

 

[Mickiethepooh]

This is not meant to sound snarky, but an honest-to-goodness question. If this is true, how does the DMV get around this in their requirements to provide "proof" for the purposes of handicapped placards?

They get around it because a handicapped placard is not something available to the general public, any more than social security disability is you have to apply for and prove need for both. The second is just an example.

That is a simple answer to the question.

 

[KPeveler]

I do have issues with those who rent an ECV for the first time and think that because of the EVC they are entitled to be the ones who get preference for everything. Case in point, last year there was a couple in their mid-60's in his and her EVC's waiting to get on the bus when I was staying at POFQ. Well, neither of them could figure out how to back either of their EVS up and onto the lift. Meanwhile there's about 20 other guests waiting to get onto the bus to head out for EPCOT EMHs. The dispatcher eventually called for a second bus to come and pick the crowd that had accumulated waiting for the bus. While I wasn't questionin their needs for the EVCs, what I was questioning is why would someone rent them from an offsite company, know they need to get them onto the bus, but not even think about backing them up until it was time to get onto the bus? Courtsey goes both ways . . . able bodied walkers should give it, but those using assistive devices need to understand hodling up a group of able bodies might very well cause tension.

I want to respond to several of the things you said. The reason they rented from an outside company is because it is much expensive, and sometimes (acutally, most days) the parks run out of scooters. you also cannot rent scooters at downtown disney, the resorts (some of which are huge), etc.

I also understand why they had to be loaded first - it is much more dangerous to load a scooter onto a bus full of people than it is on an empty bus. to be fair, they are also off-loaded last.

I agree that they should have learned to use the scooters better, but they still would have rented off-site, and still would have been loaded first
that being said, i agree that people should not feel "entitled" just because they are disabled, or old/young/rich/poor/etc. I am not any more special because i am disabled. i just need a few extra accommodations to get through my day, such as my cane or wheelchair.