Rumor by agent - Blue Card min. going up

[Leahc117]

More or less, yes, it’s about popularity. They had to cancel half of VB because they had so much trouble selling the first phase. HHI sold a little better but Aulani has literally been for sale for over 10 years now, and as far as the figurers can figure, is not remotely close to being sold out.

They also have wound up with dues that are significant outliers to the rest of the DVC program due to taking on some serious costs over the years.

I don’t see them wanting to repeat that experience.

They’re on the hook until 2042 though.

Do you think having resorts outside of WDW makes DVC more attractive to some- or that they would/should just market it as a theme park only vacation club? I imagine they were trying to entice those travelers who still wanted to take their families to other places - Hawaii looks amazing and is part of my plan to buy...x amount of WDW trips, 1-2 Aulani, and maybe 1 at Vero and HHI.

 

[sethschroeder]

Do you think having resorts outside of WDW makes DVC more attractive to some- or that they would/should just market it as a theme park only vacation club? I imagine they were trying to entice those travelers who still wanted to take their families to other places - Hawaii looks amazing and is part of my plan to buy...x amount of WDW trips, 1-2 Aulani, and maybe 1 at Vero and HHI.

Except they can still do that through RCI or whatever systems they use in the future.

Hell Disney probably could set up an exclusive system on the side and other Timeshare groups would join it if it was the only way to get Disney.

I don't know much about other timeshares though.

 

[zavandor]

Do you think having resorts outside of WDW makes DVC more attractive to some- or that they would/should just market it as a theme park only vacation club? I imagine they were trying to entice those travelers who still wanted to take their families to other places - Hawaii looks amazing and is part of my plan to buy...x amount of WDW trips, 1-2 Aulani, and maybe 1 at Vero and HHI.

DVC is a very expensive timeshare. Other systems have resorts in similar or better places, in more locations and cost a fraction, both the buy in and the MF.
The only big unique advantage of DVC is the location near parks and onsite perks. Once DVC tries to build offsite, they have to face a strong competition and not everyone think DVC resorts are so much better that they're willing to pay so much more.
For other locations outside parks many buy a second timeshare to complement DVC for non park vacations.

 

[Dean]

There’s only 10 million points among the three Walt Disney World 2042 resorts, and unless something unexpectedly changes, they’re probably going to shut down Vero Beach and Hilton Head at that time. That’s fewer points than SSR or Aulani - I think as long as they keep the runway clear around it, they will be able to sell it. Particularly at the Epcot resorts, if they convert some of the one-bedrooms into studios, I think they will be able to sell through 8-12 million points very quickly.

Really interesting will be in 2054-2057 when the three largest Walt Disney World resorts all expire within three years.

If they take them over and resell altering the points schedules, it'll be more. 3 resorts online at one time is a lot and that's a lot of points even at the current schedules. VB & HH are small resorts anyway so I don't think they affect the numbers though they couldn't sell them reasonably when they were new and there were less resorts. While the demand would likely be different for the WDW resorts in question it took SSR forever to sell out. They could phase them back in if they chose to go that route but they'd still have the issue of what to do with them in the interim (? rent). Even if they did a phased refurb, that only eats up a year or 2 of about 8 years. For members who care at the time, I don' like the looks of a DVC with SSR & OKW but not the WDW 2042 resorts but maybe they'll have others by then. An extension makes the most sense but they burned a lot of bridges with the OKW debacle so they'd need to do it either quite later of much differently than OKW. And like OKW, the RTU expiration is tied to the ground lease which presented a problem for OKW and will for the rest as well. As I see it they have lots of choices but no good ones that actually make them real money.

 

[Dean]

Except they can still do that through RCI or whatever systems they use in the future.

Hell Disney probably could set up an exclusive system on the side and other Timeshare groups would join it if it was the only way to get Disney.

I don't know much about other timeshares though.

They could but they've essentially had that in the past, from the get go really, with BVTC which is a registered exchange company. Participants early included Shell & Hilton and later Club Intrawest and Coridal. I've said many times that if most of the systems like DVC, Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Hyatt would get together and create their own system or utilize one of their own internal systems (like BVTC), they could relegate both II & RCI to a much smaller role in this arena. Any such system would require Marriott (which has control of Westin, Vistana & Hyatt plus II as well) to be included and that would effectively put MVC in charge given the size and volume. I think that ship has sailed related to a truly reasonable and functional crossover system with the Marriott acquisitions and DVC moving to RCI. Could it change, sure, but it'd be a LOT more difficult to go this route now than it would have been even 5 years ago.

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

I wonder how much more profitable re-selling resorts that are already built will be. Disney could elect to do major reno's on Beach Club and Boardwalk but it would still be significantly cheaper than re-building. If Beach Club 2.0 was being released today I've got to think the demand would be incredibly high.

 

[TheHuns]

I received my blue card with my first contract. I don't care what the minimum purchase is. To me, a member is a member. I just think DVC is altering the minimum to clamp down on the resale market. Just my observation from watching the new restrictions that seem to come out every year. Why else would they make these changes?

I agree that they are trying to make the resale market look less attractive with restrictions, but I don’t think increasing minimum blue card amount during a pandemic is the way to go.

From a financial perspective, I don't see why a new DVC direct purchase would be 100 points or under, considering it will be hard to use.

I own a sub-75 point Poly contract. I bought it resale and we visit with the intention of going 2 years in a row with 2 years off. It isn’t that difficult to book a room if you’re accustomed to going in September or January (our favorite times to visit) and are happy with a studio (we are). We book at 11 months and encounter no issues getting what we want. We’re happy with our purchase, but I’d be willing to add on another under the right circumstances.

Our decision came down to other things we wanted to do (house, family, upgrade daily drivers, etc.) while remaining open to other vacation options. Dropping $20,000 on 100 points to CCV or Riviera just seemed absurd.

 

[sethschroeder]

They could but they've essentially had that in the past, from the get go really, with BVTC which is a registered exchange company. Participants early included Shell & Hilton and later Club Intrawest and Coridal. I've said many times that if most of the systems like DVC, Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Hyatt would get together and create their own system or utilize one of their own internal systems (like BVTC), they could relegate both II & RCI to a much smaller role in this arena. Any such system would require Marriott (which has control of Westin, Vistana & Hyatt plus II as well) to be included and that would effectively put MVC in charge given the size and volume. I think that ship has sailed related to a truly reasonable and functional crossover system with the Marriott acquisitions and DVC moving to RCI. Could it change, sure, but it'd be a LOT more difficult to go this route now than it would have been even 5 years ago.

There has to be stand alone time shares around though right? I am just saying Disney could get some of these small one offs to be the new external trade options outside if RCI and it's restrictions and what not.

Regardless I am not sure it's that big of a deal as long Disney can still spin the marketing you can go elsewhere with ABD and DCL.

 

[Brian Noble]

Do you think having resorts outside of WDW makes DVC more attractive to some- or that they would/should just market it as a theme park only vacation club?

This has been one of DVD's central questions from almost the beginning. There have been examples of attempting to broaden the reach of DVC, but nearly all of them have been lukewarm successes at best. As noted VB was cut in half, HHI did okay but has a lousy location vs. other branded timeshares in the area, and Aulani is likewise moderately successful, but not a home run. There was also the National Harbor plot that was quietly sold, and there may have been a few others.

DVD has tried to broaden the reach beyond the theme parks, but it just hasn't worked very well.

DVC is a very expensive timeshare. Other systems have resorts in similar or better places, in more locations and cost a fraction, both the buy in and the MF.

Worse, Disney is an average-to-above-average hotelier that charges a premium price. There are above-average brands that are more affordable (e.g. Wyndham) and premium hoteliers that have similar premium prices (e.g. Marriott, Hilton). DISers like to talk about how Disney resorts provide such great service and have such great facilities, but they are distinctly average compared with the rest of the world. DVC units tend to be smaller and less well-equipped than other good-to-great timeshare properties.

Then add the location penalty: Ko Olina is nice but not most folks' top Hawaiian destination. If you want to be on Oahu, most want to be in Waikiki. If you want something quieter on Hawaii than Waikiki, you probably want "not Oahu." HHI is on the inside (the wrong side) of the 278 ring road.

The DVC value proposition makes the most sense when you tie it to a theme park location: smaller resorts that aren't quite luxurious but are very expensive. DVD could market a different model, but it's not clear to me how you stitch these two together.

There has to be stand alone time shares around though right? I am just saying Disney could get some of these small one offs to be the new external trade options outside if RCI and it's restrictions and what not.

There are, but almost all of them are not what DVC guests expect. Independent resorts have BODs that are highly responsive to the owner base, and that base is typically more concerned about keeping annual costs reasonable than they are having the latest and greatest. They are comfortable and well-kept, but not frequently updated. Think sort of like the "up north cottage" vs. the "vacation home." Don't get me wrong: some of them are truly wonderful because they have great locations, etc. But they also require a bit of tolerance for out of date decor/worn textiles/scratches/etc.

DVC does appear to have some sort of special exchange deal with Welk Resorts, and they used to have one with Interwest before Diamond absorbed them and renamed them to Embarc. They may still; I don't know. But I'm not sure what other "small systems" fit the bill for what DVC would want.

 

[CarolMN]

Many Members are interested in staying at (trading into) off site resorts, but very few are interested in BUYING off site. IMO, that's why DVD isn't seriously considering adding any more off site resorts to DVC.

 

[TheHuns]

I wonder how much more profitable re-selling resorts that are already built will be. Disney could elect to do major reno's on Beach Club and Boardwalk but it would still be significantly cheaper than re-building. If Beach Club 2.0 was being released today I've got to think the demand would be incredibly high.

My wife and I have talked about how we’d buy into Boardwalk 2 or Beach Club 2 in a heartbeat and sell our existing small contract.

I really hope Disney looks into a DVC expansion at one of those resorts as a backup to Reflections. I’d have to imagine a conversion of hotel inventory to DVC like Copper Creek is less expensive than a new resort.

 

[Dean]

There has to be stand alone time shares around though right? I am just saying Disney could get some of these small one offs to be the new external trade options outside if RCI and it's restrictions and what not.

Regardless I am not sure it's that big of a deal as long Disney can still spin the marketing you can go elsewhere with ABD and DCL.

IMO for DVC to have a valid "exchange" option, the BVTC system or something similar is the perfect way to do so. While there are individual and small group resorts, there would be other needs. These would include resorts that are of sufficient quality to be reasonable and resorts that already had some ability to work within a points system as well as some volume. Hilton, Hyatt, Westin and Marriott meet those requirements, Vistana would be close. Bluegreen, Wyndham, Worldmark, and Bluegreen (among others) meet those requirements except part of their resorts don't measure up so they could potentially pick and chose, they have in the past. In reality the benefit might be more to DVC than to the rest since all of the others have nice resorts in Orlando (most several resorts) that are in competition.

Regardless you'd have the same issues you have with any exchange system, availability. Either you have to give the other systems access to home resort inventory when someone exchanges or you're left with 7 month or less inventory. And all of those systems are difficult to reserve the top options during peak times just like DVC is. But it would decrease and almost eliminate the issue of sorting through the junk to find the reasonable exchanges though it would dramatically reduce the volume (good for many, bad for some).

Timeshare sales will spin the angles to sell no matter the situation so whatever they do or don't do, they'll use that situation to convince people, it happens every day with timeshares.

 

[sethschroeder]

Timeshare sales will spin the angles to sell no matter the situation so whatever they do or don't do, they'll use that situation to convince people, it happens every day with timeshares.

100% this is all I was going for was this angle. Since the question was simply about if some people would not buy DVC without the other options.

 

[Dean]

100% this is all I was going for was this angle. Since the question was simply about if some people would not buy DVC without the other options.

IMO the other options historically have made no real difference in sales from a DVC perspective. Other companies have used the exchange company affiliation to sell on their end, basically buy here and you can exchange to DVC. Of course this is with some of the companies with lower ethics still but IMO, one has to be able to hold their nose on the sales side to be able to participate with timeshares in general and while it might apply slightly less so with DVC, it does more now than 26 years ago when I bought (resale even then for me).

 

[meanwoodwhite]

I don't think it matters because the guides will pretend that the minimum purchase is 125 pts and if the guest doesn't do the research then they will think that is the only way to get into DVC.

I've seen a few British vloggers do vlogs on DVC after they bought on site. They bought 100 Rivera points to stay in a OKW studio for two weeks. Because they thought that was the only way to buy in, because that's what the guides told them.

 

[Brian Noble]

The main purpose of external exchange (RCI, BVTC) from the developer's point of view is that it serves as the answer to the "what if I don't want to come here every year" objection.

As long as DVD has something to tell prospects when that objection is raised, it doesn't really matter.

 

[LTJoeFlo]

I agree that they are trying to make the resale market look less attractive with restrictions, but I don’t think increasing minimum blue card amount during a pandemic is the way to go.


I own a sub-75 point Poly contract. I bought it resale and we visit with the intention of going 2 years in a row with 2 years off. It isn’t that difficult to book a room if you’re accustomed to going in September or January (our favorite times to visit) and are happy with a studio (we are). We book at 11 months and encounter no issues getting what we want. We’re happy with our purchase, but I’d be willing to add on another under the right circumstances.

Our decision came down to other things we wanted to do (house, family, upgrade daily drivers, etc.) while remaining open to other vacation options. Dropping $20,000 on 100 points to CCV or Riviera just seemed absurd.

I think your response sums up my confusion. The DVC market is obviously segmented. I don't think the greatest salesperson on earth can convince some resale owners to purchase a direct contract. So if this market segment hasn't already purchased the current minimum, why would we expect the increase to 125 change anyone's mind? Maybe to convince those who are still on the fence?

DVC is a luxury purchase. Few people can afford to drop $20k on a timeshare. There are several other luxury items that did experience a price increase during the pandemic. DVC actually lowered the price for the available resorts! Even some of the legacy resorts! Resale prices also saw a decrease. We can't be upset about the minimum increase going to 125.

 

[Sandisw]

I think your response sums up my confusion. The DVC market is obviously segmented. I don't think the greatest salesperson on earth can convince some resale owners to purchase a direct contract. So if this market segment hasn't already purchased the current minimum, why would we expect the increase to 125 change anyone's mind? Maybe to convince those who are still on the fence?

DVC is a luxury purchase. Few people can afford to drop $20k on a timeshare. There are several other luxury items that did experience a price increase during the pandemic. DVC actually lowered the price for the available resorts! Even some of the legacy resorts! Resale prices also saw a decrease. We can't be upset about the minimum increase going to 125.

I don’t think the raise has to do with resale buyers but direct. Someone buying will now get the extra 25 to get the perks vs. just the 100 that many were buying.

 

[poofyo101]

anymore confirmation if this is happening? debating 100 direct but really do not want riviera.

 

[sethschroeder]

anymore confirmation if this is happening? debating 100 direct but really do not want riviera.

It has come from the guides so there won't be much more until right before the actual increase now likely.