ROFR Thread July to Sept 2023 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[Sandisw]

POLY2 and FW cabins haven't been confirmed as having resale restrictions.......and the pace they can't sell Riviera with the restrictions without a steep discount I could 100% see them backtracking on that policy on future builds.

I know it keeps getting mentioned, but RIV outsold VGF in 2022 for 4 or 5 months when it was priced lower, sometimes closer to double.

VGF, without its restrctions, needed a big reduction in price to get it moving. They had to bring back MB program and essentially sell it for around $170…less for current owners….to move the needle.

So, the notion that restrictions are killing sales is just not accurate. I am sure they play some role, but VDH has done well with them so far. DVD would not have included them with VDH if they were abandoning the model.

I know it might be different as a west coast, but this move is about the product as a whole…either they commit to them or remove them.

The debate around Poly tower is only happening because of PVB already being at the location but I think there is no question they will be adding them to FW cabins.

 

[intamin]

POLY2 and FW cabins haven't been confirmed as having resale restrictions.......and the pace they can't sell Riviera with the restrictions without a steep discount I could 100% see them backtracking on that policy on future builds.

I really don't see them backtracking on resale restrictions. The number one driving factor for sales has always been price per point. Barring a resort being off property like Aulani. If RIV's price was lower than VGF we'd see RIV flying off the shelves.

Most people who buy DVC sadly are not educated about the product. It's extremely complex and I'd wager most of them didn't even realize RIV had resale restrictions. Like I've said on here before it wasn't even discussed with me until I brought it up on my own when talking to my guide. A lot of people I bet read the contract like it's the iTunes terms and conditions unfortunately.

 

[Cartman3132]

I think they're fine with the pace at which Riviera is selling, otherwise they'd have the similar incentives VGF had during the summer. I don't see them backtracking at all on it, unless you see flat sales across RIV, Poly 2, and FW (when they both come online) for an extended period of time. Although I sure wish they would backtrack since I own some RIV resale!

So I don't know what links I can post but if you search on the boards "AUGUST 2023 DVC sales reports" you can see the breakdown and has a blip on the highest sellers. Riviera is in fact one of them however the blip gets more into it. They've sold 56.3% of the 6,739,966 points available however they've only declared 224/341 rooms which means they're still sitting on another 4,458,999 points that aren't even available to purchase. So out of the 11.2 million points they've only sold about 33% of the property. Can't be happy with that real number after almost 4 years of pumping it on their main page.

 

[tom1944]

POLY2 and FW cabins haven't been confirmed as having resale restrictions.......and the pace they can't sell Riviera with the restrictions without a steep discount I could 100% see them backtracking on that policy on future builds.

There were 12 direct Riviera deeds posted this morning by 10am

 

[Cartman3132]

I really don't see them backtracking on resale restrictions. The number one driving factor for driving sales has always been price per point. Barring a resort being off property like Aulani. If RIV's price was lower than VGF we'd see RIV flying off the shelves.

Most people who buy DVC sadly are not educated about the product. It's extremely complex and I'd wager most of them didn't even realize RIV had resale restrictions. Like I've said on here before it wasn't even discussed with me until I brought it up on my own when talking to my guide. A lot of people I bet read the contract like it's the iTunes terms and conditions unfortunately.

That invokes another issue altogether, uneducated/underinformed consumers. I never got a Riviera sales pitch but if they didn't tell you until you brought it up that's.....I don't want to call it shady because resale isn't their business when selling direct.....but I would expect all restrictions should have been laid out.

 

[Chili327]

[ Reserved for Polynesian Tower ]

 

[intamin]

That invokes another issue altogether, uneducated/underinformed consumers. I never got a Riviera sales pitch but if they didn't tell you until you brought it up that's.....I don't want to call it shady because resale isn't their business when selling direct.....but I would expect all restrictions should have been laid out.

Pretty much they place the onus on you to read and understand all of these things and they don't hold your hand through any of it really aside from sign here and here and send your money here. They'll go through like how to book reservations but they won't discuss even like the importance of choosing an appropriate use year or what that even means. Far too often we see people come on here who are like we signed our contract for this X UY but I like traveling during Y am I stuck with this or can I change it after the 10 day period.

I was one of these people. They tried to assign me a June UY when I told them I like going in May and she pretty much just blew that off. Fortunately I was on disboards and knew I could change it within the 10 day period so I got it switched to April but anyways all this to say they definitely do NOT lay out everything for you and don't even necessarily do what's best for you as the consumer.

 

[Sandisw]

So I don't know what links I can post but if you search on the boards "AUGUST 2023 DVC sales reports" you can see the breakdown and has a blip on the highest sellers. Riviera is in fact one of them however the blip gets more into it. They've sold 56.3% of the 6,739,966 points available however they've only declared 224/341 rooms which means they're still sitting on another 4,458,999 points that aren't even available to purchase. So out of the 11.2 million points they've only sold about 33% of the property. Can't be happy with that real number after almost 4 years of pumping it on their main page.

They have sold over 56% of the resort. They only declare when they need to do so. And what is not declared gets rented for cash.

They are being booked with cash guests at a good rate.

Let’s do the math. Even if they sold at a high level…100k a month… good sales number..it would 67 months to sell it out with RIV being 6.7 million points.

Sales have been in play for just about 45 months so, we’d expect 4.5 million, or 67%.

Sales appear to be down about 10% to 15% over what might be good? Add in the pandemic and that they decided to push VGF sales?

Regardless of what all of us think, DVD has the power to adjust things when they are not satisfied with sales.

The newest incentives were not a major change…tells us that they are in no rush to get it sold.

To add, they have a lot of info in the paperwork, not buried that no one should buy expecting a resale value and about the restrictions. So, it’s pretty hard not to know as a buyer.

But, many of us who own RV simply don’t care if they exist or not.

We can certainly discuss elsewhere but let’s keep this thread to topic.

To

 

[Bearval]

POLY2 and FW cabins haven't been confirmed as having resale restrictions.......and the pace they can't sell Riviera with the restrictions without a steep discount I could 100% see them backtracking on that policy on future builds.

Restrictions are here to stay. Look for onetime fees to " unrestrict " points per reservation this will be cash cow for DVD.

 

[wilkydelts]

Restrictions are here to stay. Look for onetime fees to " unrestrict " points per reservation this will be cash cow for DVD.

Not sure why you say or think that. Resale is about saving money. Disney isn't going to let you "wash" points for less than it cost to buy direct.

Resale + Washing > Direct

 

[DanCali]

Not sure why you say or think that. Resale is about saving money. Disney isn't going to let you "wash" points for less than it cost to buy direct.

Resale + Washing > Direct

Obviously DVC can do what it wants, but that equation would be a non-starter to most resale buyers. and there would probably be very few takers.

For what it's worth, that's how it works with Marriott or Westin/Sheraton. They use "washing"/"requalifying" as an inventive to get buyers who would not otherwise buy direct to buy direct. It's not cheap, by any means, but it's more along the lines of "buy direct for $X, and we will let you enroll 1 resale week, buy direct for for $XX and we'll let you enroll 2 resale weeks, buy direct for for $XXX and we'll let you enroll up to 7 resale weeks". There is no "fee" per se for the actual "washing" - but they buyer still spends a lot of money knowing the new direct purchase is incurring a large immediate capital loss. This is more of a win-win proposition - the developer makes an unusually big sale (instead of the client walking away) and the resale buyer still gets a relatively attractive "price per point" after averaging the new direct purchase and the resale purchases that are now treated as direct purchases.

Here's an example - suppose you have 250 Riviera resale points you bought for $150/point and 250 Aulani resale points you bought for $110/point. You average price per point for those 500 points is $130. Now, you get an offer buy 500 Poly2 for $230/point (assume no incentives on this type of deal - you get the rack rate) and we'll wash your 500 resale points so they would be treated as if purchased direct. If you take them up on it then:

DVC makes a $115,000 sale they would not otherwise get.

And you have:
1000 points with an average purchase price of $180 that you can use to book anywhere, member cruises etc.

If you were going to buy 500 points Poly2 direct anyway, that's a no brainer. But if the resale prices of Riviera at the time Poly2 goes on sale were sub-$100/point, many typical resale buyers would have a hard time buying Poly2 for $200+ if they thought resale prices would follow a similar trajectory. This type of offer makes it easier to swallow. Also, if you were just going to buy 150 points Poly2, now you have a reason to spend more than triple.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Moderator nudge to stay on topic in 5…4…3…2…1….

 

[Bearval]

Not sure why you say or think that. Resale is about saving money. Disney isn't going to let you "wash" points for less than it cost to buy direct.

Resale + Washing > Direct

Please reread my post, I never said anything about washing points. DVC could let you "use" your restricted points for a fee for each and every reservation you would want to make outside of your home resort. This charge would be per point for every time you wanted to do that . This would not make them "direct" and would wind up costing you way more than initially buying direct depending on how many times you chose to "upgrade" a reservation.

 

[Chili327]

Chili327---$270-$21768-75-VGC-Jun-0/22, 75/23, 75/24, 75/25- sent 9/18

*edit*
My mistake... Wasn't sent to ROFR until today. 9/26.

 

[Sandisw]

Let’s get back to ROFR. Thanks.

 

[disneylandtour]

OK, quickly off topic. Anyone catch the AKV listing today that was put up at $11 per point and then, an hour later, changed.

 

[Chili327]

OK, quickly off topic. Anyone catch the AKV listing today that was put up at $11 per point and then, an hour later, changed.

Of course, i put in a full price offer!!! lol

 

[Blerghityblergh]

Blerghityblergh---$93-$29500-300-SSR-Dec-0/21, 0/22, 150/23, 300/24- sent 9/15, passed 9/26

 

[DanCali]

Moderator nudge to stay on topic in 5…4…3…2…1….

I guess I was also guilty of straying off topic, so I'll post a contribution as well

DanCali---$152-$11982-75-PVB-Mar-0/22, 0/23, 75/24, 75/25- sent 9/14, passed 9/22

Mug #6 soon (& last for foreseeable future)!!

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I guess I was also guilty of straying off topic, so I'll post a contribution as well

DanCali---$152-$11982-75-PVB-Mar-0/22, 0/23, 75/24, 75/25- sent 9/14, passed 9/22

Mug #6 soon (& last for foreseeable future)!!

Look at that ROFR turnaround

Congrats Dan.