Riviera vs CCV

[Spark65]

Spot on! Except I can’t see it when mobile so didn’t realize it was three years old

 

[havoc315]

Here is the specific language regarding BVTC. They reserve the right to make their own charts for using the DVC reservation component as well as charge a fee...which I didn’t know. It even sounds like it doesn’t have to be for all resorts. Pretty much they have a lot of leeway when it comes to exchanges.

End result is that any and all trading into other resorts is pretty much controlled by BVTC and it does not have to match home resort points.

Thank you. I could be wrong, this isn’t my area of the law. But read that paragraph carefully — it’s about acknowledgements of the DVD, of the “Club Member”, etc. The Club Member is the resort itself,

Here is the specific language regarding BVTC. They reserve the right to make their own charts for using the DVC reservation component as well as charge a fee...which I didn’t know. It even sounds like it doesn’t have to be for all resorts. Pretty much they have a lot of leeway when it comes to exchanges.

End result is that any and all trading into other resorts is pretty much controlled by BVTC and it does not have to match home resort points.

Where is that language from? I don't see it in my Riviera contract or Riviera Public Offering statement.
But beyond that, timeshare agreements are not my area of law, but I'm quite used to contracts in general.
Read the first sentence carefully, "DVD, DVCM and the association acknowledge" --- Not the individual DVC owner.

Additionally, note carefully.... They are talking about the right of BVTC to change the point chart. It appears they could have worded that paragraph more carefully, but they are clearly referring to THE point chart for a given resort, not the point chart JUST for DVC trade points. (After all, reading it that way, would mean they can never ever change the home resort point chart. But we know they do change the home resort point chart all the time, so where does that authority come from? It comes from the paragraph you posted, which is actually in reference to changing the entire point chart. But nothing authorizes different point charts for home v. trade.


I can't find the same paragraph in the Riviera documents, but did find this:





Here, and in the entire public offering statement, it's clear that home resort points and DVC vacation points are interchangeable. This paragraph spells out the difference. Every member get equal "first come, first served" privileges, with the exception of the "home resort priority period." If the the Club Member could be subjected to a different point chart at a different resort, it would have to spelled out here, because that's not truly "first come, first served."

Trust me with this, if they dared to try to charge 2 different point charts, as you suggest, they would face a class action lawsuit from DVC owners and Disney would probably lose. Such a major change in the workings of the club can't be hidden in vague fine print. Such a clause would be legally invalid.

 

[Sandisw]

Thank you. I could be wrong, this isn’t my area of the law. But read that paragraph carefully — it’s about acknowledgements of the DVD, of the “Club Member”, etc. The Club Member is the resort itself,


Where is that language from? I don't see it in my Riviera contract or Riviera Public Offering statement.
But beyond that, timeshare agreements are not my area of law, but I'm quite used to contracts in general.
Read the first sentence carefully, "DVD, DVCM and the association acknowledge" --- Not the individual DVC owner.

Additionally, note carefully.... They are talking about the right of BVTC to change the point chart. It appears they could have worded that paragraph more carefully, but they are clearly referring to THE point chart for a given resort, not the point chart JUST for DVC trade points. (After all, reading it that way, would mean they can never ever change the home resort point chart. But we know they do change the home resort point chart all the time, so where does that authority come from? It comes from the paragraph you posted, which is actually in reference to changing the entire point chart. But nothing authorizes different point charts for home v. trade.


I can't find the same paragraph in the Riviera documents, but did find this:



View attachment 541926

Here, and in the entire public offering statement, it's clear that home resort points and DVC vacation points are interchangeable. This paragraph spells out the difference. Every member get equal "first come, first served" privileges, with the exception of the "home resort priority period." If the the Club Member could be subjected to a different point chart at a different resort, it would have to spelled out here, because that's not truly "first come, first served."

Trust me with this, if they dared to try to charge 2 different point charts, as you suggest, they would face a class action lawsuit from DVC owners and Disney would probably lose. Such a major change in the workings of the club can't be hidden in vague fine print. Such a clause would be legally invalid.

Language is Exhibit G of the RIV POS, We will agree to disagree then on the rights of BVTC. They control the DVC reservation component and to me, the language is clear, They do not have to keep things the same and it even says they can have different booking timelines for different resorts.

It gives them the right to modify the agreement as well so again, as owners, we agree to them being in control...just like we do DVCM.....

I don’t think it’s hidden either because all of the documents mention trading is allowed based on the rules of the rules and regulations of the agreement with BVTC.

So, you have to actually read that agreement to know what those rules are, which to me are pretty clear.

I mean it even says there can be an exchange fee...which could be an exchange of more than a 1:1 trade.

So, yes, the trading points charts do not need to be the same. Whether they will do it? Doubtful, but it is legally allowed.

ETA: It says the number of DVC vacation points needed will be determined by BVTC. Since those are not the same as Home Resort points, I think that line also supports the charts can be different.

 

[havoc315]

Language is Exhibit G of the RIV POS, We will agree to disagree then on the rights of BVTC. They control the DVC reservation component and to me, the language is clear, They do not have to keep things the same and it even says they can have different booking timelines for different resorts.

It gives them the right to modify the agreement as well so again, as owners, we agree to them being in control...just like we do DVCM.....

I don’t think it’s hidden either because all of the documents mention trading is allowed based on the rules of the rules and regulations of the agreement with BVTC.

So, you have to actually read that agreement to know what those rules are, which to me are pretty clear.

I mean it even says there can be an exchange fee...which could be an exchange of more than a 1:1 trade.

So, yes, the trading points charts do not need to be the same. Whether they will do it? Doubtful, but it is legally allowed.

ETA: It says the number of DVC vacation points needed will be determined by BVTC. Since those are not the same as Home Resort points, I think that line also supports the charts can be different.

I did discuss it with a colleague who specializes in real estate transactions, timeshare contracts, etc. He is of the opinion that nothing in POS or sales contract explicitly allows them to employ different point structures for "DVC Trade" vs "Home Resort". He would look to reliance on custom and practice -- As DVC has run the same way for 25 years, and as nothing in the contract explicitly states they can use different point structures for trade vs home, he believes they would be taking a massive legal risk if they suddenly decided to implement such a change.

As you said, trading is allowed based on the rules and regulations of the agreement. Nothing in those rules and regulations allows discriminating against non-home users, who are all supposed to share "first come, first served" rights at the 7 month mark. (Yes, the contract does explicitly let them change the window, that they can do). While good faith changes to rules and regulations in the normal course of business would pass muster, a change in the rules and regulations that ultimately the core of the underlying agreement would be a violation of many facets of contract law.

Let's think about the ramifications of what you're saying: DVC could, overnight, end almost all trading, and stick everyone with home-resort only (like Riviera re-sale buyers), by requiring owners to use 1000 points per night to book a studio outside of their home resort. (2000 points for 1 bedroom, and 4000 points for a 2 bedroom!)
You really believe they could do that overnight?

 

[Sandisw]

I did discuss it with a colleague who specializes in real estate transactions, timeshare contracts, etc. He is of the opinion that nothing in POS or sales contract explicitly allows them to employ different point structures for "DVC Trade" vs "Home Resort". He would look to reliance on custom and practice -- As DVC has run the same way for 25 years, and as nothing in the contract explicitly states they can use different point structures for trade vs home, he believes they would be taking a massive legal risk if they suddenly decided to implement such a change.

As you said, trading is allowed based on the rules and regulations of the agreement. Nothing in those rules and regulations allows discriminating against non-home users, who are all supposed to share "first come, first served" rights at the 7 month mark. (Yes, the contract does explicitly let them change the window, that they can do). While good faith changes to rules and regulations in the normal course of business would pass muster, a change in the rules and regulations that ultimately the core of the underlying agreement would be a violation of many facets of contract law.

Let's think about the ramifications of what you're saying: DVC could, overnight, end almost all trading, and stick everyone with home-resort only (like Riviera re-sale buyers), by requiring owners to use 1000 points per night to book a studio outside of their home resort. (2000 points for 1 bedroom, and 4000 points for a 2 bedroom!)
You really believe they could do that overnight?

It limits changes year to year to a 20% change per use day

But I do believe it allows them to have different charts if they want to based on what it says in the the number of DVC vacation points are decided yearly. Again, DVC vacation points are not the same as home resort points.

Since we have gotten way off topic, we can continue in a new thread but IMO, it would be legal, just based on my interpretation and would not feel a lawsuit would win.

 

[havoc315]

It limits changes year to year to a 20% change per use day

But I do believe it allows them to have different charts if they want to based on what it says in the the number of DVC vacation points are decided yearly. Again, DVC vacation points are not the same as home resort points.

Since we have gotten way off topic, we can continue in a new thread but IMO, it would be legal, just based on my interpretation and would not feel a lawsuit would win.

I think we have gone in enough circles and bored enough readers.... So will very respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[sethschroeder]

It gives them the right to modify the agreement as well so again, as owners, we agree to them being in control...just like we do DVCM.....

My only clarification I like to put no this is that even if its written in or they can change to have it added they still have to act in our best interest. Thats why I think it would have to be some sort of X costs more and Y costs less when you get to 7 months possibly making it so "home points" inside of 7 months become "vacation points" so a different booking chart exists. Possibly they would cause more movement within DVC as well as people from VGF possibly move to SSR for the super cheap rates. Flip side other although paying more points in total can finally get access to VGF around christmas.

Who knows I just think its safer to just assume there is a tiny chance it happens and to keep that in mind. I would wait until Disney actually tried to do it and outlined the program before I worried too much about it though.

I think this along with lots of other "issues" are why I bought at RIV direct, where I want to stay, and without the Cabins/Bungalows.