Riviera Direct

[RoseGold]

The guide I spoke to made it sound dreadful to buy resale as the pool of the original 14 resorts is going to be shrinking and I’ll never get to stay at any new DVC resorts in the future.

Are you vacationing now or 20 years from now? I bought SSR for my sleep around points, it will be sold in 10 years, hopefully for more or less what I paid. I bought Poly/VGF for my theoretical grandkids. VGF's point charts are also high, but it always has been a screaming deal against crazy cash rates (as has Poly). I guess I will also sell which ever one of those makes the least financial sense in 10 years. For now, I bought loaded and DEFINITELY got my money's worth.

I have no desire to stay in any of the newest three resorts, RIV, Reflections, DL Tower, and that's probably the next 10 years of construction.

If they build DVC Marvel tower, then maybe I'll trade in my dreadful original 14 and buy a 10K DVC backpack cape.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Savings over cash rooms (even with discounts) at deluxe resorts, even moderates make the purchase worthwhile for many if you're going to Disney anyway. But everyone has their own circumstances and makes sense of these purchases in different ways besides the potential savings. I love the value resorts and don't mind staying there, for example, when we do all-day-park-frenzy stuff (also I love POP for the decades themeing ).

But I also like to bring friends and family to Disney, it's awesome to share the magic and with DVC we can get larger accommodations and do that. You can do it with hotel rooms but it's not the same as having an area to play a board games at night, cooking breakfast together, etc, meanwhile staying in the middle of the magic. None of this makes sense to non-Disney fans who might just want to go on the thrill rides and can then have the above family time in an airbnb off site.

In my particular circumstances I also get to travel abroad for work/conferences (not this year!) and even when that doesn't happen DH and I go on trips together to non-Disney destinations. One can do both, I definitely don't recommend spending all your vacation money at Disney year after year when there's so much world to see (but no judgement if you like to do that and don't care to see other places). But since 1. we are fans and know we will be back many times, 2. don't always want to stay at the values, and 3. want to bring family along sometimes, it made sense to us.

Now, can you save money on the resale market, absolutely! We bought RVA because we loved it and plan to keep our contract a long time but are adding on resale for SAP

Edit: let's not forget that for Disney fans, getting to experience another part of Disney through DVC is pretty cool and appealing. No math would account for that and many folks won't get it but I bet a lot of people who buy are Disney fans and this was at least a small part of the decision

 

[coasternut22]

I think each and every person will have to determine their own value of owning DVC. For us, we rented points from David’s each and every year. This is a real cost that we have incurred for three years, therefore, I use $20 per point as the baseline of what I actually will and have paid. This is my breakeven point. We generally rent 120-150 points per year. So at 150 points, I’m generally paying $3000 per year.

We bought 150 points at Riviera for $27,000 ($180pp). Our first criteria when making this purchase was that it had to be direct. We are a family of four and will absolutely take advantage of the $300-400 gold pass discount. For our situation, I attribute this direct premium to cost around $6000. We will break even on this premium after four “annual pass years”. Therefore, I consider the price we paid for Riviera itself to be $21,000. Spreading this out over 10 years, this amortizes to $2100 per year. Fees on 150 points is about $1250. So I’m paying $3350 per year to own Riviera. After 10 years, I’m paying just fees of $1250 (subject to increase of course).

So when you look at this scenario, you can see of course I’m losing $350 per year from what I’m paying for now. But let’s take this a little further? What is this additional $350 per year getting me?

-The ability to stay at a resort I really like and want to stay at year after year.
-The ability to stay in the room type I prefer (most trips we rented did not have this at 7 months)
-The ability to book, cancel, modify a reservation. This is extreme peace of mind.
-The ability to not have a rental company keep my money in the event of a pandemic.
-Blue card access (not sure of the value, but I now have it)

Then of course the eventual benefits:
-After 10 years, $2000 off a stay per year
-After 4 years, $1200-$1600 off passes per year

I think it’s extremely difficult to explain whether purchasing any timeshare makes sense within the first seven years. The true benefits are designed to be realized after 7-10 years. But the problems with Riviera can also be found in other resorts. High point charts? VGF and PVB have the same issue. High MFs? Aulani. Lack of eventual availability because in 20 years, half of the contracts can only stay at Riviera? VGF, VGC, and OMG, CCV is already atrocious in this area. I would never buy that resort after looking at its 11-month availability for studios. High purchase price? As you can see the actual cost I attributed to purchasing Riviera was around $140pp which is right in line with resale values of BLT, PVB, BCV, etc.

I’m one of the cheapest people you would find. But even I knew that looking at this from a purely economic perspective wasn’t going to work here. I had to place a financial value on my peace of mind and vacation habits. This wasn’t easy to do. But I just wanted to provide my perspective as a recent purchaser.

 

[TinkB278]

Are you vacationing now or 20 years from now? I bought SSR for my sleep around points, it will be sold in 10 years, hopefully for more or less what I paid. I bought Poly/VGF for my theoretical grandkids. VGF's point charts are also high, but it always has been a screaming deal against crazy cash rates (as has Poly). I guess I will also sell which ever one of those makes the least financial sense in 10 years. For now, I bought loaded and DEFINITELY got my money's worth.

I have no desire to stay in any of the newest three resorts, RIV, Reflections, DL Tower, and that's probably the next 10 years of construction.

If they build DVC Marvel tower, then maybe I'll trade in my dreadful original 14 and buy a 10K DVC backpack cape.

This was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you!

 

[Lorana]

The RIV point chart is high, but not the highest. I bought a Standard View studio Fixed Week at RIV (week 44 – Jersey Week) + a 25 pt separate contract to get the 150 pt incentive.

Wait, they let you buy a 25-point contract at RIV? I had asked about a 25-point add-on and was told 50 was the minimum.

In hindsight, I wished I had grabbed a FW but I wanted to break it into two small contracts to either pass along to my kids (I have two boys) or make it so I could sell some but not all if needed and command higher resale value.

But the idea of a fixed week in the late Halloween/F&W period and also the RunDisney period for my DH would be nice, rather than stressing over it!

I’m super glad we picked up the points though. We booked a 2BR Standard for 4/15-4/17 to stay with some friends there before moving to the GV at AKV as part of our anniversary trip. Turns out there’s a runDisney event during those dates and at the 7 month mark, the 2BR and Studio standards disappeared!

 

[TinkB278]

I think each and every person will have to determine their own value of owning DVC. For us, we rented points from David’s each and every year. This is a real cost that we have incurred for three years, therefore, I use $20 per point as the baseline of what I actually will and have paid. This is my breakeven point. We generally rent 120-150 points per year. So at 150 points, I’m generally paying $3000 per year.

We bought 150 points at Riviera for $27,000 ($180pp). Our first criteria when making this purchase was that it had to be direct. We are a family of four and will absolutely take advantage of the $300-400 gold pass discount. For our situation, I attribute this direct premium to cost around $6000. We will break even on this premium after four “annual pass years”. Therefore, I consider the price we paid for Riviera itself to be $21,000. Spreading this out over 10 years, this amortizes to $2100 per year. Fees on 150 points is about $1250. So I’m paying $3350 per year to own Riviera. After 10 years, I’m paying just fees of $1250 (subject to increase of course).

So when you look at this scenario, you can see of course I’m losing $350 per year from what I’m paying for now. But let’s take this a little further? What is this additional $350 per year getting me?

-The ability to stay at a resort I really like and want to stay at year after year.
-The ability to stay in the room type I prefer (most trips we rented did not have this at 7 months)
-The ability to book, cancel, modify a reservation. This is extreme peace of mind.
-The ability to not have a rental company keep my money in the event of a pandemic.
-Blue card access (not sure of the value, but I now have it)

Then of course the eventual benefits:
-After 10 years, $2000 off a stay per year
-After 4 years, $1200-$1600 off passes per year

I think it’s extremely difficult to explain whether purchasing any timeshare makes sense within the first seven years. The true benefits are designed to be realized after 7-10 years. But the problems with Riviera can also be found in other resorts. High point charts? VGF and PVB have the same issue. High MFs? Aulani. Lack of eventual availability because in 20 years, half of the contracts can only stay at Riviera? VGF, VGC, and OMG, CCV is already atrocious in this area. I would never buy that resort after looking at its 11-month availability for studios. High purchase price? As you can see the actual cost I attributed to purchasing Riviera was around $140pp which is right in line with resale values of BLT, PVB, BCV, etc.

I’m one of the cheapest people you would find. But even I knew that looking at this from a purely economic perspective wasn’t going to work here. I had to place a financial value on my peace of mind and vacation habits. This wasn’t easy to do. But I just wanted to provide my perspective as a recent purchaser.

How often do you go? I’ve been trying to figure out how much I would use the annual pass for a family of four but we only go once a year so I don’t think it helps much.

 

[Sandisw]

How often do you go? I’ve been trying to figure out how much I would use the annual pass for a family of four but we only go once a year so I don’t think it helps much.

Well, even with yearly, you can make it work if you can get two trips out of one pass and then buy it every other year,

We did that before DVC. Summer trip was simply 51 weeks apart,

With a family of 4, the savings about $2k? So, with every other year, it’d be about 10 years if the difference was $10 K.

It also means that if you buy and decide to squeeze in more than one trip, then it might be nice to have it as an option.

 

[masupo]

Wait, they let you buy a 25-point contract at RIV? I had asked about a 25-point add-on and was told 50 was the minimum.

In hindsight, I wished I had grabbed a FW but I wanted to break it into two small contracts to either pass along to my kids (I have two boys) or make it so I could sell some but not all if needed and command higher resale value.

But the idea of a fixed week in the late Halloween/F&W period and also the RunDisney period for my DH would be nice, rather than stressing over it!

I’m super glad we picked up the points though. We booked a 2BR Standard for 4/15-4/17 to stay with some friends there before moving to the GV at AKV as part of our anniversary trip. Turns out there’s a runDisney event during those dates and at the 7 month mark, the 2BR and Studio standards disappeared!

My guide had to get permission from the higher-ups to let me buy a separate 25 point contract. I'm glad they let me do it! 150 pts was my sweet spot with the incentives for RIV and 155 is close enough. I might've walked if they didn't let me do it.

I did want it as a RunDisney week at RIV, which would've made it even sweeter, but they didn't go for that. Although I'm not sure my guide ran that by his mgr (it was a separate conversation).

I might go for the 2BR there for part of Easter week or do a split stay too. I want to splurge with the additional banked 2019 points that came with.

 

[TinkB278]

Well, even with yearly, you can make it work if you can get two trips out of one pass and then buy it every other year,

We did that before DVC. Summer trip was simply 51 weeks apart,

With a family of 4, the savings about $2k? So, with every other year, it’d be about 10 years if the difference was $10 K.

It also means that if you buy and decide to squeeze in more than one trip, then it might be nice to have it as an option.

Does it could as a new pass rather than a renewal when you do it this way?

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Does it could as a new pass rather than a renewal when you do it this way?

It's a new pass, not a renewal. But you get two years of trips into 1 pass! I know a family that goes for the 4th of July because they are not heat-adverse as I am. The pass I think is actually 1 year and a day, so I think they always get the 4th but either go the week before or the week after the 4th

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I might go for the 2BR there for part of Easter week or do a split stay too. I want to splurge with the additional banked 2019 points that came with.

We had the same thought of splurging with the 2019 RVA points! We have a studio for the week after Thanksgiving and plan to go to the parks (maybe, if we feel safe as the date draws near). BUT, before that, we have a 2 bedroom preferred view on the weekend right after Thanksgiving and bringing my parents and little brother from South Florida along.

We're going to do Thanksgiving in the villa since I can't make it for the actual holiday to their house as I'll be knee-deep in grading. The university where I work decided to make the semester end the day before Thanksgiving!

 

[Sandisw]

Does it could as a new pass rather than a renewal when you do it this way?

Yes, it’s a new pass, but it is Possible to make the numbers work. Add in the discounts for shopping and dining and it can add up.

Like I said, we did it for years as a family of 5 and cash guests. It was a nice savings when we knew we would go every summer.

 

[masupo]

We had the same thought of splurging with the 2019 RVA points! We have a studio for the week after Thanksgiving and pan to go to the parks (maybe, if we feel safe as the date draws near). BUT, before that, we have a 2 bedroom preferred view on the weekend right after Thanksgiving and bringing my parents and little brother from South Florida along.

We're going to do Thanksgiving in the villa since I can't make it for the actual holiday to their house as I'll be knee-deep in grading. The university where I work decided to make the semester end the day before Thanksgiving!

I love that! I would totally do all the holidays in 1 or 2 bedroom villas with a full kitchen (or GV’s if I ever have enough pts). My family on the other hand…

I also have a little (well, younger) brother who lives in FL! My mom will come with me and we’ll spend Easter weekend with my bro & SIL. My brother and his wife just aren’t that into Disney. So Monday mom & I will head over to Riviera, where my aunt & cousin (who love Disney as much as I do), will fly down & join us.

I also work in a school (an elementary school, but the coincidences are uncanny!)

 

[sethschroeder]

Wait, they let you buy a 25-point contract at RIV? I had asked about a 25-point add-on and was told 50 was the minimum.

It was part of the FW purchase though to get them to the incentive which is a little different I think the minimum was 25 points though. Below 25 they can add it in to the FW contract but you lose the points if you use the FW so not a great deal unless it was in my case 3 points and I won't use that specific FW more than 4 or 5 times for the life of the contract.

 

[coasternut22]

How often do you go? I’ve been trying to figure out how much I would use the annual pass for a family of four but we only go once a year so I don’t think it helps much.

As a rental guest, we’ve spread our pass from the first week of February, September, and last week of January trips. Now we plan to do second week of June, September, first week of June. The September trips are just my wife and I for F&W.

Also note that we usually go on 9-10 day trips. Current 9 day hopper price on Undercover tourist is $623. Gold renewal price is $611. So even if we don’t make two trips out of a pass, it is still cheaper to renew with the flexibility of being able to go again if we wanted.

 

[Lorana]

Does it could as a new pass rather than a renewal when you do it this way?

As others said, a new pass, but you only have to buy one every other year this way, and get two trips on one pass. We've done this often ourselves.

 

[masupo]

Wait, they let you buy a 25-point contract at RIV? I had asked about a 25-point add-on and was told 50 was the minimum.

It was part of the FW purchase though to get them to the incentive which is a little different I think the minimum was 25 points though. Below 25 they can add it in to the FW contract but you lose the points if you use the FW so not a great deal unless it was in my case 3 points and I won't use that specific FW more than 4 or 5 times for the life of the contract.

That's exactly it, but my guide wasn't that knowledgeable about it. I was also considering FW 52 Standard View studio, which is 196 pts. They would have added the extra 4 pts into the FW itself to get to 200pt incentives. But I decided not to spend that much and went for the cheaper FW.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I love that! I would totally do all the holidays in 1 or 2 bedroom villas with a full kitchen (or GV’s if I ever have enough pts). My family on the other hand…

I also have a little (well, younger) brother who lives in FL! My mom will come with me and we’ll spend Easter weekend with my bro & SIL. My brother and his wife just aren’t that into Disney. So Monday mom & I will head over to Riviera, where my aunt & cousin (who love Disney as much as I do), will fly down & join us.

I also work in a school (an elementary school, but the coincidences are uncanny!)

Oh if only I could splurge that much to get a grand villa! The ones at RVA are sooo nice. But it's just so many darn points.

I hope you and your mom and aunt and cousin have a wonderful time at RVA (or I should say I know you will).
As for the brother and SIL who are not Disney fans... welll... okay, sure, I hope they have a nice time too! Maybe little by little you can convert them if the dark side is not too strong with them

 

[havoc315]

I don't think anyone is saying maximize profits. Instead its maximize savings or buying power for your Disney hotel stays over the next 10-50 years.

Isn't that what I said all along???

But I will go back to the caveat -- it's impossible to maximize your buying power over the next 50 years, because DVC is heavily restrictive and 50 years into the future is way too unpredictable.
Theme parks may become nearly obsolete in 30 years, leaving your points nearly worthless. Or your home resort may have become totally undesirable.
And even bigger -- the "value" of any vacation is mostly subjective. In 10 years, one may grow to hate theme parks personally, and regret having their money tied up, excluding the vacations they really want to do. Meanwhile, the re-sale and point rental market could crater, leaving you saddled with annual dues with no benefit.

Which is why again, I'll say -- the question is whether you will see personal value in the purchase over the next 10 years or so (roughly). It shouldn't be a measure of maximizing your investment. The concept of maximizing your investment wouldn't be compatible with any DVC purchase.
So if it gives you value over roughly the first 10 years, saving you money, giving you trips you want that you might not otherwise take, then it's worth it. There are too many unknowns to heavily factor the year 2056 into the equation. And for that matter, if one resort is a slightly better "value" than another resort... again, that's irrelevant if it's not the resort you prefer to be at. Most of the value in DVC is subjective. Yes, it might let you book a "$10,000 villa"... but if you hate Disney, that villa is actually worthless to you.. if you would prefer having a whole house 15 minutes away for $2,000.... then that $10,000 villa isn't really worth $10,000 to you.

So to me, the question is not maximizing your dollar... it's simply whether you are getting something that will subjectively and objectively be worthwhile in the medium-term future.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

We closed on our Riviera Contract last week. Curious though, does DVC send out anything besides our Annual Dues Bill? You would think they would send a congratulations or at least something to actually let you know you closed. I wouldn't have know it closed if I didn't get my bill for annual dues lol.