Response to my Email

[d-r]

You know, I understand not being happy about shorter hours, and I really do believe that you should let wdw know when the hours are to short and it takes away from your enjoyment. That's how they are gauging things, so let them know.

Having said that, I have to say something smart elicky. I was looking at my annual pass, and I'm convinced that there is no where on there that says what the hours will be for a day's worth of a ticket.

DR

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by *123JOANNA123*
What about the inherent unfairness of paying the same money for shorter hours?

Or the unfairness of paying the same money for longer lines? Who gets the better deal? It is a big Catch 22. Everyone pays the same ticket price right? But you go to Disney to ride the rides and see the shows, not stand in line, right? So if you wanted to get nit-picky, folks with the shorter hours have it much better and here is why: Disney basis their operating hours on the capacities of the seasons and their resort bookings. So if you happen to go during an "off season" your park hours are probably going to be shorter then someone who goes during the summer or holidays. But with the "off season" comes shorter lines and less crowds, so you have the opportunity to see and do what you want in the allowed time. Now during the "busy season" hours are longer by 3 to 4 hours usually but you spend more time waiting in lines and can do less.

So if you REALLY wanted to get nit-picky I think that the people that are there during the busy times should get a discount on their tickets as opposed to people that go in the "off season". Why? As I said above, its about riding rides and seeing shows, not standing in line. So if you go in the "off season", you can ride Space Mountain 5 times, Splash Mountain 3 times, The Haunted Mansion twice, or Buzz Lightyear 6 times. Now during the busier times you are lucky if you get on all the rides or see the shows at least once.

Take today for example, I was at the Magic Kingdom and the shortest wait I saw was 25 minutes for it's a small world. Everything else had a 60 minute wait with most of the FastPasses having a return time a few hours out. Now last Saturday I was there also and the lines were much much shorter, there was only a 15/20 minute wait for almost everything and FastPass had a return time of 45 minutes to 1 hour.

So who is getting the better deal and who should get a discounted ticket? The "off season" guest because they park hours are less but they are likely to be able to do more. Or the "busy season" guest because the park hours are 3 hours longer to allow them a chance to do everything also because of the longer lines?

Sounds to me like the people that go during the busy season are the ones that deserver the monetary break.

 

[splashmountain31]

Is there a full moon tonight? It appears the boards are quite interesting this weekend.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I should remind people that there are many less fortunate people in the world that can't even think about planning a vacation to Disney World. We are so lucky to have the ability to post on these boards and have fun planning wonderful vacations.

So....to read posts where people complain that their 2-5K vacation is being ruined because the Magic Kingdom is closing 2 hours earlier is a bit upsetting. Relax and enjoy the wonderful oppourtunity you have been given.

I have to agree with one of the earlier posts. If you don't like something, don't do it.

 

[ThAnswr]

>>>Is there a full moon tonight?<<<<

Must be.

However, the view is heavily clouded by pixie dust.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
>>>Is there a full moon tonight?<<<<

Must be.

However, the view is heavily clouded by pixie dust.

Not to mention all of the rose-colored glasses.

It would be awful if too many people followed some of the advice in this thread. If a lot of people decide not to do "it" then Disney is really in trouble.

As far as the hours go, one of my greatest pleasures during a trip is spending time at MK when it is dark. I love the lights and MK is just plain beautiful to me. When we last visited, MK was only open past 7 one evening even though it was during Spring Break and the park was literally a madhouse since it was the only night to see Spectromagic. Being there was in no way fun so the shorter hours did affect my enjoyment. And I reserve the right to say so.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
However, the view is heavily clouded by pixie dust.

I love when a differing of opinion is immediately attributed to "pixie dust".

I still say the summer and holiday people with the longer hours deserve the discount more then those that go during the shorter hours.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I plan to have an absolute blast on my upcoming vacation. Having said that, there is no way on earth (alright, alright a bit of exaggeration) to justify MK closing at 7pm on a Friday night in June. All the long posts in the world can't change the appearance that this is just a cheap shakedown of guests by WDW.

 

[Another Voice]

A few short comments so people can call me names again.

The whole "you don't need longer hours becasue of short lines" thing. I keep being told that Animal Kingdom is a full day park because there's so much more to do there than rides and shows – so is Magic Kingdom supposed to be only seen as a collection of rides you race to finish and leave immediately? What if I want to enjoy a nice meal or watch the fireworks or simply sit on a bench?

The cut in hours are not being driven by the economics of the parks. It's not the recession or fear or SARS. It's being driven because the company lost billions on the Internet, ABC, Fox Family and now can't make a movie that pays for its own production. If a business is down it's one thing to make adjustments, but why am I forced back to my hotel room early because someone spent $5 billion to buy 'The Mighty Morphing Power Rangers'?

The Company has already made statements that the cuts won't be returned "when things turn around". Few companies find that bragging about reducing customer service is a smart move.

And how come the company could afford to keep much longer hours in past years when attendance at WDW was millions less than what it is today? I keep asking but no one ever answers.

Very few people go to WDW every year, let along make several trips a year. It's much easier to "roll with the punches" on your tenth trip than on your first.

Even fewer care to "make lemonade" when they've saved for years to afford a trip only to discover they're getting less than they paid for. A guest with a bad experience is less likely to make a second trip. I have the feeling there are a lot of "once in a lifetime" trips happening at WDW right now. That's bad news for a business now built on repeat business.

I'm paying Disney an awful lot of money for a vacation. The last thing I want to do is have to "go with flow" when it means having less fun, less enjoyment and more hassles. If I wanted that I'd be going to New York.

Lastly "if you don't like it, don't go" – well isn't that exactly what millions of people are doing?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Zippa D Doodah
I plan to have an absolute blast on my upcoming vacation. Having said that, there is no way on earth (alright, alright a bit of exaggeration) to justify MK closing at 7pm on a Friday night in June.

What I wonder is why nobody ever seems to have a problem with Universal's hours. Is it because they were posted three months ago? In the month of June they are open 1 hour later on Friday nights then the Magic Kingdom, and Epcot and MGM are both open 1 hour later then both Universal and IOA, except for the last Friday of the month.

But then you don't hear anyone complain that IOA closes and hour earlier then the Magic Kingdom every Saturday during the month of June....... why the double standard?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Another Voice
The whole "you don't need longer hours becasue of short lines" thing. I keep being told that Animal Kingdom is a full day park because there's so much more to do there than rides and shows – so is Magic Kingdom supposed to be only seen as a collection of rides you race to finish and leave immediately? What if I want to enjoy a nice meal or watch the fireworks or simply sit on a bench?

I don't remember saying that you had to race from ride to ride, or did I miss something? I go to Disney during the "off season" usually when MK closes at 6 or 7, and if I get their shortly after opening I usually have more the enough time to see and do what I want and to also, "enjoy a nice meal" or "sit on a bench".

But again, the question wasn't answered. The reason there are longer hours during the busier season is because lines are longer and people should be afforded the opportunity to do everything on their wish lists. So yes, having the parks open an extra 3 hours during busier times versus slower times does seem to even things out a bit. Everyone pays the same price, everyone gets to do all the rides, everyone gets to do the shows....

Last I checked though 9 - 7 was 10 hours, that is a good deal of time to get around a park and do rides, shows, and attractions that have little to no wait during the slower months. And you should still have some time for a nice meal, sit on a bench, get some ice cream..... whatever you want.....

 

[blackshirt]

Last time I checked, the weather in Central Florida tends to be somewhat uncomfortable during the middle of most summer days. Many people, myself included, try to avoid these extremely hot and crowded times. Add to this the fact that the MK is a completely different experience after dark. To those that have only seen the MK during the day in offseason, these reductions make no difference. For those that have experienced the MK after dark, the cuts in hours(or charging for access) are very troubling and difficult to accept, especially when Disney is making HUGE amounts of profit from the parks.

 

[splashmountain31]

I think we're running up hill with this one. People are set on being aggitated about the parks closing early. I guess I don't see the big deal, but I'm not directly affected by this because I never travel to the world in the summer. Perhaps one of the folks will tell me to zip my lip. Enough said...

Funny, where I'm from the "local" parks (including Six Flags) are even closing early in the summer...cutbacks are EVERYWHERE.

Oh well, I guess it makes some of us (including myself in some instances) feel better to compain.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I guess I don't see the big deal

The big deal is that this is a circle. Disney's attendance and sales have been decreasing steadily, Disney responds by cutting hours and services, which causes people to delay or cancel trips, which cause further decreases in attendance and sales.

Disney is the Titanic; the suggestion that one can simply relax and listen to the band while the ship goes down may calm a few souls who can't get off the sinking ship, but it's not a compelling foundation upon which to build an advertising campaign. And pointing out that nowhere on the ticket appears any guarantee that you will not drown isn't going to help increase future sales, either.

This whole argument is mind-boggling to me. The basic suggestion sounds like the news anchor's comment years ago that "If rape is inevitable, you might as well lay back and enjoy it." At worst, such a suggestion can make you sound selfish and insensitive (the news anchor got canned for it, incidentally); and even at best, it just doesn't do a damn thing toward addressing the real problem.

 

[hopemax]

But then you don't hear anyone complain that IOA closes and hour earlier then the Magic Kingdom every Saturday during the month of June

When IOA starts pulling in yearly attendance in the 14 million plus range, but leaves the hours the same as they are, then I will complain. Everyone says the reason the MK hours are so short are because of lack of attendance. So why are you expecting a park that pulls in only 6 million people a year to have the same hours or longer than the 14 million people a year park? Or to flip it, don't you expect a 14 million people a year park to have longer hours than the 6 million people a year park?

Or take another park, Cedar Point. In 2002, they pulled in 3.25 million, and they are open about 140 days/year. That puts them averaging about 23, 200 per day. Their June 2003 hours are 10-10, 6 days a week and 10-11 on Saturdays. 12 or 13 hour days every day of the month. In 2002, the MK pulled in 14 million with 365 days of operation, for an average of 38,350 per day. Of course some days are lower, but that means the summer days are higher than 38,000 to acheive that average. But yet there are 14 days when the park is open shorter hours than Cedar Point.

Why is it so unreasonable that I expect the MK to be open at least as long as a park that has a daily summer average of about half what I expect the MK's daily summer average to be? I'm really trying to follow this "attendance sets the hours" logic here.

 

[ThAnswr]

>>>I love when a differing of opinion is immediately attributed to "pixie dust". <<<<

You may bristle all you want about "pixie dust" but the fact is that's what Disney sells. It's product isn't consumer electronics or hotel rooms or video games or sports networks. It's "pixie dust" or what used to be called the "magic". The theme parks and movies enhanced that " magic". The onsite hotels were there so that the guest (I've got my issues with this, comment to follow) did not have to leave the magic. This is why Main Street and the hotel rooms were touched up every day. Real life was left outside the park. You entered a magical world and you stayed in that world until you left. For many people, the magic is either diminished or is gone and Disney shot themselves in the foot. Disney is no different than General Motors. When GM changed from selling the dream of cruising down Route 66 with the top down ("see the USA in your Chevrolet") and started becoming the "my door doesn't fit and my heater doesn't work" car, that's when it all fell apart.

Disney changed from being a magical place to a place where squeezing the customers a few extra shekels by less maintenance and fewer operating hours became standard procedure. Anybody else see the TV commercial about the guy who worked for the olive company and figured out he could save the company money by putting in 1 less olive per jar? That's Disney. Only now, the amount of olives is considerably less than what it was and you're paying more for it. If you think the operating hours have only changed by 1 or 2 hours, here's a little info:

MK (June hours) 2002 - 369 hours
2003 - 339 hours
AK (June hours) 2002 - 269 hours
2003 - 240 hours
TL (June hours) 2002 - 303.5 hours
2003 - 240 hours
BB (June hours) 2002 - 303.5 hours
2003 - 240 hours

I haven't even gone into the loss of Spectromagics, FITS, Tapestry of Dreams, or Fantasmics for this June over last June.

When you hustle customers out of the MK at 7PM on a summer night in June just so that you can charge extra for an E-night, that is as Zip said, a shakedown. Disney took advantage of their customers in a truly disturbing way. Rather than posting their operating hours well in advance so that people can make an informed decision as to plans, they waited until the last minute after plans had been made, the family had been looking forward to their Disney trip, and in some cases, the trip had already been paid for. This is just plain wrong. And, as if to add further insult to injury, the admission prices go up.

When the Disney PTB decided to change the focus from "pixie dust" to networks and sports teams and stores, the company went south. It didn't happen overnight. It took a few years, but the fact is Disney's MK business has dropped off by nearly 3,000,000 per year. That's a hell of a drop and all of it isn't due to 9/11 or SARS. A good number of those people were no longer getting their dose of "pixie dust" so they just went elsewhere. As AV said, Disney is a business and just like every other business, it has to answer to their customers. So far the good will and nostalgia Disney's been living with the last few years really hasn't come crashing down. Yet!

The dose of "pixie dust" you receive at Disney may be more than enough for you. Maybe whatever "pixie dust" you receive will never be less than optimal for you. Good for you and, I mean this in all sincerity, have a wonderful time. But, please, spare me the "don't worry, be happy" lecture. Anytime a company cuts services the way Disney has in the last few years, and doesn't appear to even understand why so many are unhappy is truly a company that doesn't get it. And, they're never going to get it until Disney's management changes. I don't care what plans and ideas come out of this current Disney PTB, it won't change a thing because they do not understand the concept of "pixie dust".

I really do believe Disney can completely turn it around, but not with the group that put them in the hole. If IBM and Harley-Davidson can turn it around, so can Disney. It'll come sooner or later. I'm not moving from Car #4 into Car #5. But, in the meantime, this will be my last extended trip to Disney and I won't be renewing our AP's.

I said I"d comment on this whole "guest" thing and here it is. I am not a guest. I don't charge guests in my home when they stay overnight or have a meal. I'm not Disney's guest, I'm Disney's customer. That's a whole different relationship, and this customer isn't happy. Who woulda thunk it.

BTW, whether or not I'll enjoy my upcoming trip has no place in this discussion and, frankly, is totally irrelevant to this discussion. This isn't an "alls well that ends well" situation. This is about paying for a service, that for me, is no longer delivering. For reasons stated above, they got me this year but next year is a whole different story.

And, one last thing: ThAnswr is not a "he". Trust me I wouldn't pass the physical.

Anyway, have a Disney day, thanks for reading my rant, and I hope there's a coherent thought somewhere in that rant.

 

[wdw4us2]

I don't understand why so many people on this board attack the opinions stated by Another Voice.

Those of us who are 30 year veterans of WDW have experienced many downturns at the parks for various reasons: the economy, gas shortage, stagnation (no new attractions for years) etc.

Nothing has been as blatant as the disregard Disney is now showing its repeat customers - which is the core of their existence. Yes, if you made your first trip to WDW right now, you would probably feel as though you had a magical experience. However, if you are a repeat customer and you are seeing the constant "take-aways" that Disney management now utitlizes on a regular basis, it is distressing.

People who can't understand those who complain about shorter hours, one less chicken finger in the meal, etc. are not looking at the big picture. If you look at the total of the reductions, IT DOES EFFECT YOUR THEME PARK EXPERIENCE!

What's really annoying is that the reductions were not made because of low numbers in the parks, they were made because of poor expansion decisions made by the Disney Company Executives. Why should our theme park experiences be diminished because of the purchases of The Mighty Ducks, California Angels, ABC, Fox Family, Power Rangers, etc.

If the Disney Company had any sense, it would sell off these money losers at a loss and get back to concentrating their resources on what they did best - entertainment through films and Theme Parks.

 

[Luv2Roam]

My glasses are starting to tint back to rose after last Friday.
First, DH and I had a terrific WDW vacation last January. Our best ever.
But last Friday (the 30th) we were both off work and drove to Des Moines to Adventureland.
mmmmmm...... $22 each (discounted rates) to enter. And Disney it was not. Going to something like Adventureland you realize how great Disney is and how much more you get with your dollar. No contest at all.
Adventureland was cheap, low budget -- as often people here describe any Disney park. Nothing there could come close to measuring up to Disney's standards.
You want to see peeling paint, burned out bulbs, dead pan employees, dirty/outdated surroundings, and packaged carnival rides I know where you can go. Dinoland would be a breath of fresh, welcomed air at Adventureland.
Guess you have to go elsewhere to really appreciate the beauty of Disney.
At Adventureland, I felt like I was at a state fair, minus the animals and commercial booths.
At WDW, I am in a Disney fantasyland filled with chipper CM's -- and plenty of them!

 

[ThAnswr]

>>>>>>What I wonder is why nobody ever seems to have a problem with Universal's hours.<<<<

Maybe it's because US/IOA are open more hours than Disney during my time frame (6/19 - 6/24)? I'll compare those hours a little bit later on in this post.

>>> Is it because they were posted three months ago?<<<

If I were to have any problems with the US/IOA hours, at least I would've known about it 3 months ago unlike Disney which isn't even posting hours within their stated time limit of 30 days least of all the 60 days in which you can make a PS.

BTW, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but US/IOA's operating hours have been out for well over 3 months. Right now, US/IOA have their operating hours posted through 12/03.

Here it is 6/1 and I have a question. Anyone going to WDW in August and if so, what are the operating hours? Anybody know?

>>> In the month of June they are open 1 hour later on Friday nights then the Magic Kingdom, and Epcot and MGM are both open 1 hour later then both Universal and IOA, except for the last Friday of the month.<<<

Let's make a comparison between WDW and US/IOA during my time frame (6/19 - 6/24). The MK is open 69.5 hours, Epcot FW 54 hours (official Disney website), Epcot WS 60 hours, AK 48 hours, TL 48 hours, and BB 48 hours.

During that same time frame (6/19 - 6/24), both US and IOA are open 70 hours.

Well, whattayanno, MGM is open 2 more hours than US/IOA and the MK comes in second with it being open 1/2 less than US/IOA.

I've got no problem with the hours at least on the US/IOA side.

>>But then you don't hear anyone complain that IOA closes and hour earlier then the Magic Kingdom every Saturday during the month of June....... why the double standard?<<<

What double standard?

US/IOA posted their operating hours months in advance. I know that June/July hours were posted because I looked at them in early March when I was planning my trip to Orlando. Part of the reason why I go to US/IOA in July is because of the longer hours.

I didn't find out about the June hours for Disney until the 1st week in May.

US/IOA's June/July operating hours are pretty much the same as they were last year. Disney, on the other hand radically cut their hours and waited until the 11th hour to inform the public, some of whom had already planned and paid for their trips.

From where I'm sitting, it would've been real nice if Disney had looked over to US/IOA and followed their standard.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
Let's make a comparison between WDW and US/IOA during my time frame (6/19 - 6/24). The MK is open 69.5 hours, Epcot FW 54 hours (official Disney website), Epcot WS 60 hours, AK 48 hours, TL 48 hours, and BB 48 hours.

During that same time frame (6/19 - 6/24), both US and IOA are open 70 hours.

So let me get this straight. Are you upset that Disney took so long to post their hours? Or are you upset that Magic Kingdom closes 30 minutes (gasp) then US/IOA? Or is it a combination of both.

From where I'm sitting, it would've been real nice if Disney had looked over to US/IOA and followed their standard.

And if by Universal's standards you mean unfriendly, blase CM's and exploiting Disney's weaknesses at the moment to make a quick buck... then sure... the view does seem nice.

 

[Another Voice]

"What I wonder is why nobody ever seems to have a problem with Universal's hours?"

Because no one cares. People are worried about WDW. Besides, should Disney's mark of excellence only be "we're marginally better than the guys down the road"?


"But again, the question wasn't answered. The reason there are longer hours during the busier season is because lines are longer…"

Again – no one is taking about comparing the first week of November to the first week in July; we're taking about comparing a week this year to the same week few years ago. While there we fewer people in the parks than there are today somehow we could enjoy the parks (with their shorter lines) for more hours than we can now.

The unanswered question remains: how come with higher attendance we get shorter hours? Not only are there more people, there are fewer rides, shows and restaurants open. So we've got bigger crowds and fewer things for them to see – we actually have longer lines. Doesn't shorter hours actually make the problem worse. Shouldn't Disney be expanding hours from what they were in 1998/1999? If one agrees that "everyone pays the same price, everyone gets to do all the rides…" shouldn't one them demand all those now lost opportunities to "have more than [sic] enough time to see and do what I want"?

I have yet to read a single attempt to rationalize this. Anyone care to try?