Renting your points - bad for your membership?

[bigAWL]

We've been DVC members for 6 years now, and love using our points for Disney vacations. However, for the past year and a half, we've found ourselves in situations where we prefered other vacation options for various reasons, and have rented out our points via a third-party website.

What I'm wondering is if doing this on occasion, or even habitually, would have any effect on my DVC membership standing. I have no intention of going to the extreme of renting all the points for years on end, and I think that would actually violate some agreement in the contract, wouldn't it? Is there a line somewhere that's not to be crossed? Or is it simply a matter of not attracting the attention some how - like having so many reservations in a row in the name of non-members?

Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[jimandami]

I believe that DVC has stated renting is ok, as long as you aren't renting them out as a commercial business. I think I read somewhere that 20 rentals in a year is that arbitrary line?

 

[disneynutz]

Disney gets upset when you take money from the mouse. IMO they see owners renting as making money from your guests, they buy admission, food, and merchandise.

Bill

 

[drusba]

Under the official documents, renting is allowed unless done for "commercial purposes," which is further described as a pattern of rental activity from which DVD can conclude you are a "commercial enterprise or activity." About 8 years ago, DVD isssued guideluines to provide further specificity to those vague terms in the official documents. Under the guidelines, you will be presumed to be in violation of the "commercial purposes" prohibition if you make more than 20 room reservations in any given 12 month period. In other words, the "commercial purposes" prohibition is basically designed to preclude members from being in the business of owning a lot of points and renting them out and you really have to do an excessive number of reservations in a year to face any problem.

Once in a while, you will get an inexperienced CM on a call to MS who will claim renting is prohibited. That is incorrect and should be treated the same way as the abundance of other wrong information you can often get from inexperinced CM's.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney can and will change the rules and policies as they see fit to benefit Disney. If they decide that they want to decrease the number of member rentals, they will lower their acceptable number and either not give a reason or site the lowering as "due to member feedback".

Bill

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Renting is allowed. If you're not using it you can rent and you can rent all of your points ( assuming you don't have several thousand although it's hard to say what DVC would do if that was a single year or two....maybe you could).

Drusba has described what isn't allowed which is commercial renting.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Who would Disney rather have: (1) a happy guest that saved money by renting points from a DVC member and then has extra cash to spend in the parks OR (2) a disgruntled member that was forced to vacation at Disney because they did not want them renting out their points.

DVC may be a club, but it is still a real estate contract and as long as people are not greedy capitalistic pigs (that is a difficult thing to measure) then there should not be an issue.

 

[deedisneydream97]

I am wondering if all of the complaints in the last few years about shabby DVC rooms can be connected to renters vs. owners. I know as an owner, I am extra careful about leaving wet towels on carpets, wiping up spills on counter tops and stove tops, using the provided coasters to put my glass on (I don't care if some think they are "thin", they still do the job) and not piling my garbage up outside my door because I don't understand the rules about trash and towel or I don't care.

I am not saying that all renters are not careful; my concern is.....does DVC keep track of who is in each room and the condition it is in when they check out? Do they check each room and charge an owner for damage....or is everything just kind of lumped into "room damages" and all of the owners (including those that don't rent out their points) have to collectively pay for these damages via dues? As an owner that has, at this point in time after 18 years of ownership, never rented points to strangers.....I have a problem with this. I have read SO many posts here where members complain about the condition of their room when they check in. If guests treat the room as if they own it, there should not be a problem.

I have also seen many posts from potential buyers that want to buy more resale points than they need because they figure they can rent those extra points out to offset their dues. Well, good for them if they can do that....but what does that translate to? Really, I wonder what the "accountability" factor is when compared to someone that gets a resort room or a villa for cash via regular channels?

Does anyone know the CORRECT answer to this question? Not interested in the "IMO" answers.

And I don't mean any offense to renters of DVC points that treat the DVC rooms with respect. It is really wonderful that you can get these rooms at a great discount and I am sure most of you are very responsible and respectful.

I am wondering if DVC will start clamping down on this renting stuff, especially since so much money is being spent on refurbs lately. All of this refurbishing takes rooms out of inventory and disrupts the resort.

Getting back to the OP's question...so far, it seems nobody has been punished for renting their points out, so you are safe.

 

[spiceycat]

the only time a member is charged is when the renter charges something but did not give Disney a credit card. Only heard of that once in many, many years - here the reason is that you have a better chance of finding the renter than Disney.

which is why now to even make any DVC reservation that DVC requires so much information.

breakage happens you are never charged for it.

 

[deedisneydream97]

the only time a member is charged is when the renter charges something but did not give Disney a credit card. Only heard of that once in many, many years - here the reason is that you have a better chance of finding the renter than Disney.

which is why now to even make any DVC reservation that DVC requires so much information.

breakage happens you are never charged for it.

Breakage is one thing (i.e. dropping a wine glass on the counter)...outright damage is another. I've seen people post about missing drawers, cabinet doors being broken off their hinges, hairdryer burns on the bathroom countertop, unexplainable scratches on the whirlpool tub, terrible stains on the couch, damaged tops on end tables, etc. I've checked in to rooms that had missing irons, no potholders, missing frying pans and someone even snatched off our "do not disturb" sign on our door handle because at the time it had a picture of the castle. It annoys me that if the person occupying the room was not respectful and careful (for example, would you place your hairdryer on top of your OWN bathroom countertop while it was still on?) ....what happens when they damage rooms? If they are renting DVC points....does the member take the fall or what? Does anyone know the answer? Has anyone rented points out to strangers and then been slapped with a fine or some kind of charge from DVC?

 

[bigAWL]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It seems the conventional wisdom says that my 3 rented reservations this year is a drop in the bucket as far as DVD is concerned.

As far as damage by renters v. owners... and don't forget owners' extended family and friends, and even cash guests... maybe I'm cynical, but I doubt any group is more careful or less careful with the property. I just see people as people, and they will behave the way they will.

I'm suddenly interested in seeing a breakdown of the percentage of nights in a resort that are reserved in the name of owners of that home resort, owners of other DVC resorts, non-owners (but reserved by an owner), and cash guests. I think it would be impossible to break out renters from guests of owners staying for free. Or even what percentage of points are actually used personally by the owner?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I am wondering if all of the complaints in the last few years about shabby DVC rooms can be connected to renters vs. owners.

I don't believe this myself. I think it's more that some people are careful and others not so much. I have a few family members that I don't believe intentionally try to damage things yet they do all the time.

 

[bumbershoot]

a happy guest that saved money by renting points from a DVC member and then has extra cash to spend in the parks

AND a guest who might then want to buy into DVC.

Breakage is one thing (i.e. dropping a wine glass on the counter)...outright damage is another.

"Breakage" is the term used. They don't mean a broken glass; they could mean a broken door or a room so full of mildew that they have to close it to being used and clean it completely.

someone even snatched off our "do not disturb" sign on our door handle because at the time it had a picture of the castle.

How do you know why they took it?

I just see people as people, and they will behave the way they will.

Exactly.

I think it would be impossible to break out renters from guests of owners staying for free.

Agreed.

They ONLY place they ask when making a reservation is in the part where you're listing people. Check if they are owners or not. Well, you know what? I'm an associate. I'm not the owner. But I MAKE the reservations, and you can bet your bippy that I put that I'm an owner. And I indicate that for my son, too.

First, how many people that rent actually report that it is renters staying there?

Exactly.



As for who causes damage, damage is noticed as it is noticed. Sometimes it's not noticed, or the person that notices it doesn't have time or feel like they have time to report it.

I had a Kidani one bedroom in, hmm, well a couple years ago, and it had the hot water issue in the washer. It had been *years* since that was first noticed! And they were fixing it *as it was reported*.

Problem was, they fixed it WRONG the first time through. They thought it was mixed up hoses. But as I found out when I reported it (because I was ALL of my clothing in cold and hang it to dry, so it's important to me), it was a computer chip problem. All the switching of hoses they did was useless. So, again, as people noticed it and reported it, they sent someone up to replace the chip.

It had, again, been years since this first was noticed. And I still had to report it. Why? Maybe no one had tried to do a cold wash. Maybe they had but they never felt the water. Maybe they had felt it but didn't care. Maybe they didn't have time. Maybe they didn't care. Maybe no one had used the washer in all those years? Who knows?


But...doesn't much matter that I own at DVC (er, my husband does). I put the same care into my RENTED condo. When the dryer started to die, I reported it. We now have a cruddy dryer that the landlady swears will be replaced. I care about my living space.

Others don't. People are people. Surely we've all seen OWNED houses go to pieces because their owners just don't care?

 

[ziravan]

Florida timeshare laws require that owners be allowed to rent. There are tons more timeshares out there and locking owners into use or lose isn't very consumer friendly.

DVC would ban renting today....if they could.

They can't

They don't like competition with the mouse and so, they're not very sympathetic with issues related to renting. This is why they're so draconian about not letting renters manage their reservations. They want another layer of hassle attached to renting.

So long as you aren't making 20 reservations a year (DVC's arbitrary definition of commercial renting), renting has no impact on your contract. Even if someone did violate that arbitrary limit, it's not certain that DVC could survive a legal challenge to that policy.

 

[Dean]

I am wondering if all of the complaints in the last few years about shabby DVC rooms can be connected to renters vs. owners.

There is no evidence to support that idea and common sense doesn't support it either. For fixed week/fixed unit timeshares one might be able to show a difference but other than that, DVC is just a rental car to even the most considerate and passionate of owners. If my rental experience is any indication, I'd say renters are more considerate and appreciative of their DVC stays than are members. I've discussed this question with several GM's at non DVC timeshares and the consensus has been that either than haven't seen any issues they could point fingers at OR the only outlier was the spring break crowd.

 

[DenLo]

Many people don't treat their own homes gently so why would they respect a hotel room? I expect that the majority of the damage to DVC rooms is by members as there are many more members staying in them than renters. I think DVC has purchased lower quality furnishings combined with more members doing shorter stays which means more check ins and check outs. And members not reporting damage because it takes too much time away from their vacation or they don't want to admit that their family did the damage. And some wouldn't notice or think anything of it that they are causing damage.

 

[apple9117]

Good to know, we've rented points recently because we weren't able to use all of our points

 

[disneynutz]

Many people don't treat their own homes gently so why would they respect a hotel room? I expect that the majority of the damage to DVC rooms is by members as there are many more members staying in them than renters. I think DVC has purchased lower quality furnishings combined with more members doing shorter stays which means more check ins and check outs. And members not reporting damage because it takes too much time away from their vacation or they don't want to admit that their family did the damage. And some wouldn't notice or think anything of it that they are causing damage.

Even when reported it may never be fixed. We have been in the same room where we reported a problem and the same issue is still there a year later.

Bill

 

[chipndaleluver]

Stayed at WLV from May 26 to June 2. A friend who is a DVC member let us use her points. While I loved the room and resort, I was surprised to find white stains on the floor in living room. I have attached photo. Who knows how long those stains were there. I tried to wipe them off, but it sort of looks like paint so it didn't come off.

 

[Jennytoon]

You know, even people in the same family may have different standards!

When we stay in timeshare (where we are owners or have traded in so owner-equivalent), we always get a two bedroom. My rule is no food or drink in the kids' bedroom at all, and none on the sofa unless special permission is given (which is usually granted or denied based on what type of food it is and the outcome of a spill). Obviously this rule is aimed at preventing accidents that would do damage.

My DH thinks the rule is excessive, and I only get away with enforcing it because the one time he told them they could have gatorade in their bedroom while watching TV they spilled it all over the bed. Even then, it's not that he agrees with the rule, just feels that he doesn't have as much ground to stand on to argue about it.

To be clear, it is not that he feels less interest / need than me to take care of a timeshare or rental unit, it is just that his perspective on what is required to make sure that happens is different. I'm sure that's true of many families; they just don't see the consequence of a potentially damaging action until the damage is done or they mis-estimate the risk. And taking that last bit a little farther, up to a certain age kids associate rules with specific environments, not generic environments, and it's easy for parents to forget this. There was an infamous incident when my youngest was two where I baked my shoes in a timeshare. It just never occurred to me to look in the oven before I turned it on, since at home all my kids knew well that the oven was a grownups-only appliance and should be left alone!