Rented points problem

[maburke]

I understand that Disney can freeze your account, but it doesn't seem fair that they have information to track this that you don't have. For example, what happened with the credit card charge? Was the account closed, or reported stolen? Disney must have had some contact with the credit card company -- can they tell you what happened?

 

[Sammie]

I hate this for Jerry, it stinks big time. But I have talked to enough management people at DVC and the resorts that I felt sure I knew how this was going to be handled.

Per our POS if we book for a guest whether it be a rental or your family, you are ultimately responsible for them. This includes damages, outstanding debts, etc.

Sadly DVC members do not seem to follow the procedures that other timeshare owners do when they rent Vacation Homes and that is to require a security deposit.

When we rent Beach Homes we always have to pay a Security Deposit in advance of the rental, that is refundable after we check out, if there are no damages or in this case outstanding debt.

Considering no one that rents DVC points seems to require a Security Deposit, it would basically be impossible to do, no one would rent from you due to the extra expense.

Therefore anyone that rents is always going to face this possiblity.

I don't think I could do a rental, I would have to do a transfer. But then DVC is adamant that transfers can not be done for a monetary gain.

I guess I will just have to use mine or give them to friends.

Good Luck Jerry, I hope the owner owns up to this.

 

[maburke]

To anyone who is interested, after several conversations with MS, I'm stuck paying this if the renter does not. I've already Emailed and called the renter multiple times with no response. Amazingly, when she did answer the phone and I said my name, the line went dead (honestly!). I can't believe this as this renter works at the University of Tennessee in some professional position. I had Disney fax me the folio showing all of the charges and they certainly all look legitimate. I live in Massachusetts, the renter is in Tennessee. I'm waiting to hear from my nephew who is a lawyer to see if small claims is worth it. For $1400.00, I'd fly to Tennessee for a small claim action if I had to, I'd still be ahead. I'll post if I can get this resolved. All I can say is be careful. I know this renter is familiar with this forum and is very knowledgeable about DVC, even telling me she is an owner. She used my points as she said she didn't have enough for what she wanted to do. She had a great trip, cost me 186 points which I received $8/each and I get to pay for their food and entertainment. I'll end up making about $100 for 186 points, what does that work out to, $.54/point. She kept their charges just below the $1500.00 threshold so Disney wouldn't put the charges through until after they left, knew just what to do. What a deal, what a scam.....
Thanks
Jerry C.

Here are a couple of suggestions:
1) Do you know if she really is an owner? Try checking her name at the Orange County web site. If she is, and especially if she used some of her own points for part of the reservation, maybe you can persuade Disney to put the freeze on her points instead of on yours.
2) Try finding her at the University of Tennessee. You can usually find most people who work at the university from the main web page via a directory or something. If you try calling her at work, she might be just embarrassed enough to make good on this.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[RobDoc]

Understood, but if OP is correct and that this person is active on this board maybe the mods could keep an eye on this person. Just in case...?
Maybe not since the transaction is not done on dis rent/trade board ... but just a thought?

I have seen no comment that this renter is "active" on the DIS - and even if they are, the transaction was not conducted thru the DIS (per the OP's admission) and we are hearing only one side of the issue. The OP has not asked for help and has not provided the username of the renter so there is nothing we can do based on the situation.

Do you truly feel the DIS has any responsibility in this situation? We don't even know how the OP transacted the rental - thru another site, eBay, Craig's List, etc.

Hopefully, the poster can find some resolution, but there is little the DIS can do to assist with such a situation.

 

[kim532]

I know the majority of rentals go off without problems, but this has eaten at me all day at work since I was planning on renting my points our next year. I know that I am responsible as an owner, and I don't know that I am willing to take the risk.

I feel so bad for the OP. Jerry, This must be so frustrating.

Kim

 

[jnsolomon]

This whole thing makes me sick. When renting we should be able to specify to member services that there no room charges are allowed. Disney more or less puts us at risk for the room charges while they enjoy the profits of whatever is charged to the room.

 

[Deb & Bill]

This whole thing makes me sick. When renting we should be able to specify to member services that there no room charges are allowed. Disney more or less puts us at risk for the room charges while they enjoy the profits of whatever is charged to the room.

You can't do that. But the POS does say that you are responsible for the actions of your guests or people who rent from you.

 

[vicki_c]

This whole thing makes me sick. When renting we should be able to specify to member services that there no room charges are allowed. Disney more or less puts us at risk for the room charges while they enjoy the profits of whatever is charged to the room.

(This has nothing to do with the OP's situation by the way, because he didn't say what I'm responding to)

This is not true - any member who chooses to rent their points is putting themselves at risk. It's a choice and no one is forcing anyone to do it; it's just a risk you take though if you want to rent your points.

 

[dj~merlin]

i don't think blaming disney, is good problem solving. [ imagine if they did ,
it would be like opening the flood gates for future scams.]

i feel really bad for the owner. i wish i had some words of wisdom of
"how to" make it possible to "go after" this person. [ from what the op
expressed, it was pretty obvious , they intended to do this. maybe
legal charges could be file?]

iam surprise david's vacation has not responded? from what others
have posted, he seem pretty good @ preventing this type of thing.
maybe he has some advice that could help the owner toward
recovery?

i can see this happening more often in the future - swindling owners
out of free disney vacations. can they return the property for a
refund-[ money]? like others, i don't think we will be renting any of
our points.

 

[jnsolomon]

I want to clarify what I posted earlier. If I rent out my points I think it is fair that I may ultimately be held responsible for room damages etc. I do not think it is fair that disney will let someone charge to the room and then bill me for it, especially when they do not allow me to say "no room charges". I know that this is the way is, but that does not mean I have to agree with it. I have never rented points so I have no vested interest in this, but it just doesn't seem fair even if it is allowed per the POS. Why can't the renter just disallow room charges?

 

[Deb & Bill]

I want to clarify what I posted earlier. If I rent out my points I think it is fair that I may ultimately be held responsible for room damages etc. I do not think it is fair that disney will let someone charge to the room and then bill me for it, especially when they do not allow me to say "no room charges". I know that this is the way is, but that does not mean I have to agree with it. I have never rented points so I have no vested interest in this, but it just doesn't seem fair even if it is allowed per the POS. Why can't the renter just disallow room charges?

Someone who plans to cheat you out of the credit card costs is going to agree to anything up front. Especially if they know you have little recourse to get the money they stuck you with. It comes down to you suing them like the OP is talking about.

 

[Chuck S]

I want to clarify what I posted earlier. If I rent out my points I think it is fair that I may ultimately be held responsible for room damages etc. I do not think it is fair that disney will let someone charge to the room and then bill me for it, especially when they do not allow me to say "no room charges". I know that this is the way is, but that does not mean I have to agree with it. I have never rented points so I have no vested interest in this, but it just doesn't seem fair even if it is allowed per the POS. Why can't the renter just disallow room charges?

Disney offers charging to every resort guest with a CC card. If DVC would allow an owner to disallow charging on a rental, then Disney is legally involving itself in the rental process, and it would make Disney legally obligated to disallow the charging privilege to the renter. It is a responsibility they choose not to accept. It is easier, and apparently legal, to hold the DVC owner responsible.

With a cash guest, Disney accepts the responsibility, because Disney is making the profit from the room rental. In the case of a DVC member renting the room, it is the DVC member making the rental profit, thus the member needs to accept the responsibility.

 

[Carrie in AZ]

This makes my blood boil. I have never rented points before, but am very interested in doing so one day. I just hate it that people are dishonest and ultimately put fear in others.

I hope this can be resolved to your satisfaction. I am so sorry you are experiencing this.....you truly need a hefty dose of magic PRONTO!

 

[Sammie]

iam surprise david's vacation has not responded? from what others
have posted, he seem pretty good @ preventing this type of thing.
maybe he has some advice that could help the owner toward
recovery?

David might out of the goodness of his heart have some suggestion to make but can't see where his business expertise would be involved, since this was not one of his rentals, just as it was not a listing here on the DIS forum.

As to preventing this type of thing, not sure what anyone can do to prevent it. I always knew this could happen.

I know that David holds half of the money from the renter until they check in, which protects the renter, but not sure what can be done to protect the member short of a security deposit, which I don't think he requires.

Maybe he will weigh in.

 

[jodifla]

Wow. This is horrible!!! I would track her down to the ends of the earth, and definitely sue in small claims court!

 

[disneynutz]

Wow. This is horrible!!! I would track her down to the ends of the earth, and definitely sue in small claims court!

Even if you win a verdict, that doesn't mean that you will ever collect.

Renting requires that both parties are honest, law abiding citizens. As the number of rentals increase, so will the percentage of transactions that have problems.

I hope that the OP recovers the money that is due. Perhaps this is another good reason to keep the rental rate above $10 per point. If there should be a problem, the higher rental rate would help mitigate the loss.

Bill

 

[jecpva]

Even if you win a verdict, that doesn't mean that you will ever collect.

Bill

This is exactly what my lawyer told me. If I file a small claims action and win a judgement, which I will because I do have a rental agreement, this doesn't mean I'll ever be paid. I'm still probably going to file a small claims just to try to resolve this.

 

[Daddio]

iam surprise david's vacation has not responded? from what others
have posted, he seem pretty good @ preventing this type of thing.
maybe he has some advice that could help the owner toward
recovery?

I appreciate your confidence in my program, however, there is little I can share here that will benefit the average member. For the record, the OP did not use our service and we have no involvment with this rental.

We have policies and procedures in place to recover any funds owing under such circumstances but have never had to implement the collection process.

I don't think it has yet been determined that the OP's guest is avoiding payment as I don't recall there being any mention of active communication between the two.

For the OP, I hope this is just a misunderstanding that will be resolved once the guest is notified of the outstanding balance.


David

 

[vicki_c]

I don't think it has yet been determined that the OP's guest is avoiding payment as I don't recall there being any mention of active communication between the two.

David

Except for when she hung up on him when she heard his name! But I agree - it's not definitive proof that they are trying to avoid paying, but certainly suspicious!

 

[jodifla]

Even if you win a verdict, that doesn't mean that you will ever collect.

Renting requires that both parties are honest, law abiding citizens. As the number of rentals increase, so will the percentage of transactions that have problems.

I hope that the OP recovers the money that is due. Perhaps this is another good reason to keep the rental rate above $10 per point. If there should be a problem, the higher rental rate would help mitigate the loss.

Bill

Still doesn't mean you don't try! Why let a thief get away?!?

I assume OP has her address? My lawyer would have a certified letter out to her ASAP!