Rental Rates/Concerns

[KNWVIKING]

No contract I signed will ever justify being rude or inconsiderate to other members. I am accountable to my fellow members just the same as I'm accountable to my family,friends and co-workers.

I went back and read your post about booking for your employees and then having to cancel last minute. I have no problem whatsoever with this because you never intended to cancel, your motives were pure. But the OT deals with a member tying up two units,for the same date, knowing full well one will be canceled as soon as the rentee makes up their mind. You don't have a problem with that ? What if that ressie was made 5 minutes before you got thru to MS and now your on the waitlist- hoping you get it,wondering if you should buy flight tickets, put your name done on the vacation list at work,etc. Maybe "rude" isn't the best word to use. What would your adjective be ?

And if you want to make 100 one day ressies,knock yourself out, its your choice-because we all have the same video that says we can. But you know that's not what I was talking about in the example I posted.

 

[DSNY FN]

Oh man this is good and to be honest I make atleast 3 ressies in a use year that I am not going to be going myself and post them on E bay why because you don't get enough money for them posting them on this board most people are only willing to pay 10 dollars a point on E bay you get upwards of 20 to 25 dollars a point from people sometimes more. So I will continue to do so until I can get to the point where I can go every year or figure I have a trip coming up that I am taking enough people that I need to book using all my points plus having to bank or borrow points. Plus this has also helped me to pay a substantial ammount of my loan to Disney off so it has benefited me in that I now owe them half what I did 2 years ago. I really don't see any problem in this renting and holding rooms they are as stated after all OUR POINTS.

 

[PamOKW]

I don't read an explicit guarantee of commercial DVC point rental.

In fact, in several places in bold face type it cautions against the assumption that you would be able to rent when facing the vast marketing skills of the WDW resort.

This is a tough arguement and, unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution beyond a hope that personal use continues to outweigh people using points as a source of income.

I don't see anything wrong with the way that Doc is using his points. He is booking trips for friends/employees which is still personal use. It's also a natural use of the system to book a vacation at your home resort and then make a change when the 7 month window opens. It even makes sense to book a vacation you plan to take and then make a change if you find that won't be a good time to go.

I don't even think that people who find themselves with extra points one year who sell them as a rental are that much of a concern. It's when desire to make a profit becomes the motivation in selecting the weeks and accomodations to book that problems can set in.

Where is Rich? He started this "lively debate"

 

[KNWVIKING]

When you made those ressies, were you doing so with the intention of only using/renting one and cancelling the others ?

That's the point of this thread.

 

[WDWMom]

Wow, there goes that "family " feeling out the window again. I think I'll go listen to my " Circle of Life " Cd.



From Websters dictionary; MODERATE- to restrain from excess; to temper;lessen,allay - to become less violent or intense

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by brucec32
Webmaster Doc,
It sounds like you have the values set of the stereotypical lawyer. Are you a lawyer?

LOL! Another insult? I've been called a lot of names, but lawyer is a new one!

No, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I'm a lowly dentist who truly loves the program Disney created called DVC.

The issue, as I see it, is that while I would have preferred a handshake-and-a-smile to purchase into DVC, Disney insisted on a detailed legal document which outlines all of the aspects of the programs and also protects them from a legal standpoint. Some of the details are required by law to explain the mechansisms involved- this allows them to sell their "product" in many different states.

In this document are many ambiguous (probably intentionally) concepts, which forces us to provide our own interpretation as to the meaning. These concepts include things like renting and occupancy, but there are many others. Some are subject to change and that change is spelled out in the contract itself and some are fixed by the terms of the contract (reallocation of points, dues increases, etc.)

There are also many concepts that are specifically outlined, such as how reservations may be made, cancellation policies, banking deadlines, etc. Even some of these concepts have "loopholes" provided by DVC to extend courtesy to members. ("Secret-one-time-banking-exceptions")

The problem with an internet discussion board regarding these concepts, is that we may each have our own personal vision of what they entail- regardless how they are handled by Disney or DVC. Some are of the opinion that any rental is prohibited (or should be), others find that rental activity above a certain threshhold is commercial rental (and therfore not allowed), others now suggest that certain reservation patterns are not fair to other members. Some feel that rental fees are too low- others feel they are too high. All the while, the only body able to evaluate and enforce these concepts remains silent (at least on this board) and that body is Disney itself.

While we are aware that DVC does monitor some discussion on this site, they have never openly participated. We are also aware that some policies have been at least reviewed, if not modified, after discussion here.

At times, examples of things some consider objectionable behavior are cited to explain a position- even though the example may be well within the rules provided by Disney. At other times, we try to suggest ethical behavior when it is already allowed in Disney's rules. We often feel a sense of community and lash out when the very rules designed to protect our own rights seem to violate those rights- yet the same circumstance serves to protect another member's rights even to our own detriment. Reservation policy may be an example of this.

Bottom line is that Disney has the final say in what is allowable within the confines of our membership and we can only hope that they are able to protect our individual rights within those confines.

Enjoy!

 

[DSNY FN]

I put specific limitations on time periods for money to be exchanged and sometimes I rent all 3 and other times I rent only one then return the others ie cancel them. So to answer your question I will rent all 3 if I get renters if not I rent the ones that people want and cancel the ones that I don't get rid of on e bay

 

[Laurajean1014]

This thread would make a good poll.

Although I think having the freedom to use my points is a great option, I am not one that was ever for renting, Disney or otherwise.

I think it distracts from the integrity of the DVC. I would like to see exclusivity within the DVC resorts on Disney property.

 

[Jollymon]

"Since I have posted on this very board that I have sent MY staff to WDW on several occasions, I assume this is directed at me personally... "

A bit conceited...

I wonder if he ever goes to a football game? He probably thinks that the players in the huddle are talking about him.


Andrew

 

[CaptainMidnight]

You have no more right to be upset with how I make reservations than I have to be upset with your reservation habits.

I'm not upset with how you use your points. I do not agree when you aren't more realistic of how the example of having sets of 100 one day studio reservations which would blocking several vacations weeks every year would reduce availability during prime season wouldn't be in the majority of members best interest, or DVC's best interest, even though it would technically be allowed in the contract. I dissagree when you claim that kind of disruptive reservation pattern is "spiritually" OK, but it's moot, nobody does that anyway. It's an example taken to extreme of a detrimental reservation pattern, although it should have also included that the 100 rooms were for commercial rental use sold on e-bay. Doesn't matter, doesn't happen anyway.

KNWVIKING, if I've missrepresented your intent in your post by taking the example to a larger extreme, my apology. I thought you had a pretty good point, and that the way I read what you wrote, I thought it was being missrepresented when Doc was describing the reasons why he was offended. I'll let the two of you take that on.

"doing so with the intention of only using/renting one and cancelling the others" is the problem being discussed, sorry to get it off track.

Doc, your the 600 pound guerrilla around here, it's your playing field. I'm just glad to be able to visit and talk about DVC. I've never rented my points out, but perhaps I might need to in the future.

 

[jade1]

"An example of renters hurting us"

Is it not possible that a "guest" renting points to use may often be a DVC owner (one of "us") that needs more points?

 

[PamOKW]

Maybe some new posters to this board are not familiar with Webmaster Doc and the "above and beyond" that he does for DVC members who frequent these boards. He really goes out of his way to provide us with information ranging from early reconnaissance on resorts as they are being built to surveys of what room types are located where at the resorts. It also takes a lot to make him be anything but even-handed on this board.

So, please....let's call a truce on any personal attack on Doc. I think the first offense was just a misunderstanding....let's not compound that. Okay, big Disney/DVC hug everybody???

 

[KNWVIKING]

Absolutely. This is a discussion,not an arguement. Besides, someday I may want to work for Doc. I'll take a free trip to Disney any way I can get one. Even if it is for just one Wednesday nite

 

[KNWVIKING]

And while it seems I've got the attention of a Mod: Whats up with the "1> " ???

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Maybe some new posters to this board are not familiar with Webmaster Doc and the "above and beyond" that he does for DVC members who frequent these boards. He really goes out of his way to provide us with information ranging from early reconnaissance on resorts as they are being built to surveys of what room types are located where at the resorts. It also takes a lot to make him be anything but even-handed on this board.

So, please....let's call a truce on any personal attack on Doc. I think the first offense was just a misunderstanding....let's not compound that. Okay, big Disney/DVC hug everybody???

Agreed.

 

[KLR-wlv]

I've never wanted to rent out points so much in my life! LOL...

Who out there is being "harmed" in their DVC membership?

I have made quite a few reservations in the past 2 years of being a member (at peak times too), and I have always gotten my times and resorts I've wanted sometimes at 4 months notice - sometime with the waitlist.

There is a 30 day mark for cancellations - more stringent than cash ressies - but less restrictive than other timeshares - I think Disney has reached a good compromise.

Like any system in the universe - there is probably a 7% abuse rate - do you really want to institute widespread rules and regulations to control a minority that is seen by some as abusing a system?

Trying to regulate "moral" behavior is never a good idea...

All those with their boxers in a bunch - Be careful what you wish for! I'm sure Disney could offer quite a few letigious answers to your so called problem that would make things much more of a pain in the ***...

This is about vacationing after all.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I have no problem with renters or rentees. I don't want Disney to implement more gray rules. All I want is for people to realize that their actions affect others. Silly little things like: Not smoking in non-smoking units. Not leaving their trash in the hallways. Not letting their children run rampant. Not blasting music at all hours.
Or making reservations they don't intend to ever keep just so they can appease a renter,(let's rephrase:just so they don't lose the sale to a potential customer).

 

[KLR-wlv]

Right - so this is about regulating rude people - which unfortunately just will never work. I would love to find a place in the world to escape from selfish, rude behavior - but even disney isn't that utopia. So I guess I'm just under the impression that renters and rentees are the LEAST of those perceived evils - that owners who expect and demand special treatment because of their perceived RIGHT to what is no more than a hotel room actually do a lot more "harm" to members (demanding views that they aren't entitled to/ early room entry/ demands that take up more than their fair share of an employee's time, etc)than someone tying up a reservation for a week or two...ANd I doubt that we could even come to a consensus on what defines "rude" - let alone try and eliminate it from the DVC or any other arena of our lives for that matter...

 

[TDC Nala]

I was once told that it was rude for a bunch of adults to make a PS for Cinderella's breakfast because the fact that we had booked a table would doubtless deprive some child of the chance to chow down with the crowned ones.

This problem is following similar logic. It seems that booking two rooms of different sizes for a renter, then cancelling one when the renter decides the size of the party, is rude because there is some member somewhere who was calling at exactly that moment in time for exactly the room that the renter is sitting on, and they won't get it because it's been booked by someone who won't use it. If this is rude, then booking two rooms, whether through CRO or DVC, for ANY reason with the intent to cancel one is rude. Or booking a room somewhere at rack rate with the intent to move somewhere else at a future discounted rate is rude, because someone might want that rack rate room and can't get it because you've got it booked up, and don't intend to use it.

I somehow have trouble believing that this happens enough to actually deprive anyone of rooms. I don't even find it terribly rude and can't see the harm as anything but negligible. But the only way to stop it would be for Disney (or any other hotel concern) to have a strict one reservation, one payment, fee for cancellation policy. I think I'd rather take the chances of having some people book multiple rooms than having no flexibility whatsoever.

PS: Yes, I'm a lawyer.

 

[colleen costello]

I have that "1>" too, and it seems to be interfering with my following this fascinating debate! Can someone tell us what this thing is? It appears near the top left of the screen when I try to jump to a new thread or sometimes when I hit "back."

PS: Doc, what is it with dentists? My dentists are two sisters -- I just adore them -- and once a year they take the whole staff on a Carnival cruise. I am always extremely jealous. I again assert I want to come work for you!