CaptainMidnight
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2000
WDWMom,
Nicely said. Great, relevant, courteous, forthright post. Thanks for sharing.
Nicely said. Great, relevant, courteous, forthright post. Thanks for sharing.
Rental Rates/Concerns
- Thread starter Richyams
- Start date
- Status
luvindisneyworld
<font color=green>Fireworks then a sundae - good s
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
i do not book a particular week and then try to rent it out.if i see someone is looking for certain dates i call MS and if they have the availibility i book the room and hold it for 10 days and if i do not recive the down payment i cancel the ressie.so i am not one of the ones that book a prime week and try to rent it out on Ebay.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 1998
Since I have posted on this very board that I have sent MY staff to WDW on several occasions, I assume this is directed at me personally and I do take offense to the suggestion here that I have done anything outside of the spirit of DVC and certainly am offended at any suggestion that what I have done is in violation of any DVC rules or provisions. While I have never provided 1 day trips for my staff, they have each been to OKW for 3-5 days- several times. Each trip was completely within my understanding of the allowances of the DVC program.
To suggest that I or any other member have a responsibility or accountability to other members is absurd. My contract is very specific regarding my rights and obligations within the program and how I choose to spend my points is entirely between myself and DVC. If any other member feels they have a right to direct how I use my points, please provide the clause in my contract where that right exists.
I will offer an immediate an sincere apology if you can produce the entry in my contract where you have any right to direct how my membership is used or where I have any repsonsiblilty or accountability to other members how my points are used. I will offer the same apology if you can demonstrate in my contract where I have violated either the spirit or the word of my DVC contract by making reservations for my staff, family friends or guests.
I patiently await your response!
luvindisneyworld
<font color=green>Fireworks then a sundae - good s
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
Very Well Said DOC, I could not AGREE more.i do not get where it is anyones business what i do with my points as long as DVC has no problem with it,then it is noone elses business to be sticking their nose where it does not belong.
CaptainMidnight
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2000
Doc,
IMHO, your offense is misplaced. The point being made is that somone could, if they choose, identify a very unrealistic patten of reservations that could be detrimental to other members. I did not read any personal reference to your treating your own staff in any way, or any intention to criticize you treating your staff. The poster was just trying to think of an example that could involve a very large number of people, I'm guessing.
My read is that the poster was trying to identify a situation that involved taking a very large group of people (regardless of whether that is work or whomever) and making tons of point reservations for studios, lets say 100 studios, for only one day during the busiest season on a wednesday in the middle of the week for the first week and then only one day, say a wednesday in the middle fo the second week during prime weeks. Let's say the person did this every year from now till 2042. That would be allowed under the rules of the contract, the contract assumes some reasonability on the part of members, and bases point values and rules on overall patterns. But illogical reservactions tying up 100 studios for only two days, but during the busy season in the pattern described would end up blocking others and not allow anyone else trying to book a continuous week or more in those 100 studios from doing so. during prime season, would be detrimantal to fellow members. My understanding is that the poster was trying to show how an unreasonable reservation pattern could be detrimental to other members, and that mutual consideration is not such an outlandish concept for fellow members to be aware of.
There is no way that I read any dispersion toward you and your practice of you treating your staff to DVC vacations. Your missing the mark with that interpretation of the scenario that the poster was trying to share, IMHO. Many of us, if not all of us think it's wonderful you treat your staff. In fact it's an inspiration to some of us who would like to do the same.
But this idea that we do not have to show the slightest concern or consideration for fellow members with an "it's all about me" attitude is clearly wrong in my opinion, and is not consistent with my religious beliefs, my beliefs in this country, and my beliefs in my fellow man. Every day, I work to help others, it is a part of my career, and part of my belief system. Hypothetically, others may differ, they may not care who they screw over to get what they want even if it is through indiscriminant, inconsiderate action (that last paragraph is in no way having anything to do with or in any reference your statements or posts Doc).
I believe we do have a responsibility to each other as members to work towards a mutually beneficial and considerate relationships. Personally, even though I may mess up from time to time, I'm certainly not perfect, I know that I will try to conduct myself in a manner considerate to fellow members in my use of our vacation ownership. I try not to leave trash bags in the halls, destroy landscaping, try not to be boisterously loud in the middle of the night, blow smoke in non-smoking DVCer's faces, and have even been known to bend down and pick up a piece of trash in a DVC hall that is not mine and throw it away, to help care for the resort. I even try to not pee in the pool, and to take good care of the accomdations while I'm in them, even though I could probably get away with not being charged for damage, if I choose to be deliberately careless. The rules don't say I have to do those things (maybe the pee in the pool part). I dissagree with "me only, screw you" folks who don't share those values, I do not think they are correct in those views, I hope it's a small club. (not you, Doc, this last section isn't in reference to you or your post).
IMHO, your offense is misplaced. The point being made is that somone could, if they choose, identify a very unrealistic patten of reservations that could be detrimental to other members. I did not read any personal reference to your treating your own staff in any way, or any intention to criticize you treating your staff. The poster was just trying to think of an example that could involve a very large number of people, I'm guessing.
My read is that the poster was trying to identify a situation that involved taking a very large group of people (regardless of whether that is work or whomever) and making tons of point reservations for studios, lets say 100 studios, for only one day during the busiest season on a wednesday in the middle of the week for the first week and then only one day, say a wednesday in the middle fo the second week during prime weeks. Let's say the person did this every year from now till 2042. That would be allowed under the rules of the contract, the contract assumes some reasonability on the part of members, and bases point values and rules on overall patterns. But illogical reservactions tying up 100 studios for only two days, but during the busy season in the pattern described would end up blocking others and not allow anyone else trying to book a continuous week or more in those 100 studios from doing so. during prime season, would be detrimantal to fellow members. My understanding is that the poster was trying to show how an unreasonable reservation pattern could be detrimental to other members, and that mutual consideration is not such an outlandish concept for fellow members to be aware of.
There is no way that I read any dispersion toward you and your practice of you treating your staff to DVC vacations. Your missing the mark with that interpretation of the scenario that the poster was trying to share, IMHO. Many of us, if not all of us think it's wonderful you treat your staff. In fact it's an inspiration to some of us who would like to do the same.
But this idea that we do not have to show the slightest concern or consideration for fellow members with an "it's all about me" attitude is clearly wrong in my opinion, and is not consistent with my religious beliefs, my beliefs in this country, and my beliefs in my fellow man. Every day, I work to help others, it is a part of my career, and part of my belief system. Hypothetically, others may differ, they may not care who they screw over to get what they want even if it is through indiscriminant, inconsiderate action (that last paragraph is in no way having anything to do with or in any reference your statements or posts Doc).
I believe we do have a responsibility to each other as members to work towards a mutually beneficial and considerate relationships. Personally, even though I may mess up from time to time, I'm certainly not perfect, I know that I will try to conduct myself in a manner considerate to fellow members in my use of our vacation ownership. I try not to leave trash bags in the halls, destroy landscaping, try not to be boisterously loud in the middle of the night, blow smoke in non-smoking DVCer's faces, and have even been known to bend down and pick up a piece of trash in a DVC hall that is not mine and throw it away, to help care for the resort. I even try to not pee in the pool, and to take good care of the accomdations while I'm in them, even though I could probably get away with not being charged for damage, if I choose to be deliberately careless. The rules don't say I have to do those things (maybe the pee in the pool part). I dissagree with "me only, screw you" folks who don't share those values, I do not think they are correct in those views, I hope it's a small club. (not you, Doc, this last section isn't in reference to you or your post).
Mouse Ears
Always a Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2000
Well said, Captain. I agree that the club as a whole benefits from thoughtful actions of members like yourself.
The problem is that we cannot legislate or require courtesy from all the members. I hope for it, but I know that there will always be members who believe that the rules are the end of their moral obligation to society and the club. And even a few who won't recognize the rules as applying to them because they 'paid good money' or are entitled for whatever perceived reason (why else would someone walk off with towels, etc.).
In that sense, it is none of my business if someone chooses to inconsiderately use their points, but that doesn't mean they haven't been rude to me.
The problem is that we cannot legislate or require courtesy from all the members. I hope for it, but I know that there will always be members who believe that the rules are the end of their moral obligation to society and the club. And even a few who won't recognize the rules as applying to them because they 'paid good money' or are entitled for whatever perceived reason (why else would someone walk off with towels, etc.).
In that sense, it is none of my business if someone chooses to inconsiderately use their points, but that doesn't mean they haven't been rude to me.
CaptainMidnight
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2000
It also doesn't mean that you are restricted from the right of letting those who are rude know that you don't appreciate thier being rude, especially if they choose to participate in a communication forum in discussion of such actions.
Back to the original topic concerning renting, personally, my interpretation of the contract (and I'm not expert, quite the contrary) doesn't read that the right to use DVC as a commercial enterprise is explicitly guaranteed. Even for the "it's all about the rules" folks, I don't read an explicit guarantee of commercial DVC point rental. I'm not going to go through the work of specifically citing contract paragraphs, I'll let the challengers do that. Even so, I'd hate to be tied up in court with Disney trying to prove I had that right, if Disney decided to be more restrictive in response to member complaints regarding the detrimantal effects of excessive comercial renting, the profit from the rental of points certainly wouldn't cover those legal fees.
CaptainMidnight
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2000
I was wondering who would bite on that one.... seems like we should hear a rim shot with it......ta dum dum.
... My post absolutely was not directed at you, first because I had no idea you've sent your employees to WDW and second, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
I get real iritated when people take the position of "I'll do as I please because I CAN and the heck with everybody else". My point was that I would be extremely inconsiderate of other families that would like to spend a week at WDW if a large block of studios were unavailible for a full weeks stay because I booked them for one nite.
If I,or anyone, wish to let friends,families,employees,whoever, use my points, that's great. But I would never do it in a manner that would be rude to others. I also would not book multiple units for the same dates knowing full well I going to cancel the ones I don't want or need. That is rude to other members.
I get real iritated when people take the position of "I'll do as I please because I CAN and the heck with everybody else". My point was that I would be extremely inconsiderate of other families that would like to spend a week at WDW if a large block of studios were unavailible for a full weeks stay because I booked them for one nite.
If I,or anyone, wish to let friends,families,employees,whoever, use my points, that's great. But I would never do it in a manner that would be rude to others. I also would not book multiple units for the same dates knowing full well I going to cancel the ones I don't want or need. That is rude to other members.
I'm not a member, just browsing here to see about becoming one. From what I can gather, the problem isn't people making multiple reservations and then canceling them, tying up rooms others might want to reserve, but Disney allowing people to make reservations and then cancel them willy nilly w/o any penalty.
Perhaps a rule that charges a small fee for cancellations would reduce the problem? Like maybe $50 for canceled reservations. Not a hardship if you have to cancel, yet enough to make people think twice before making multiple reservations way out in advance.
I was frustrated in the past trying to make reservations for trips to the other Disney resorts in the slower times (Nov, Dec, Jan) when I knew good and well the hotels weren't going to be full. The problem seemed to be that you could reserve and tie up multiple rooms up till 5 days or so before the trip. So to get a room, you had to wait till the last minute to reserve and risk not finding anything for real, or book way out in advance. Sure enough, when I showed up, the resort was half empty (last trip to Port Orleans Riverside we were the only people in our entire building according to the front desk). But 6 weeks earlier, they were "booked up". The resort was a Ghost town. I loved it! No lines.
I wonder if Disney realizes that too-liberal reservations policies cost them money. I wonder why they do it that way? When I rent a beach home, I have to have a deposit there in a few days and the balance paid weeks before I even arrive. Surely some token charge for cancellations would be reasonable for everyone.
Perhaps a rule that charges a small fee for cancellations would reduce the problem? Like maybe $50 for canceled reservations. Not a hardship if you have to cancel, yet enough to make people think twice before making multiple reservations way out in advance.
I was frustrated in the past trying to make reservations for trips to the other Disney resorts in the slower times (Nov, Dec, Jan) when I knew good and well the hotels weren't going to be full. The problem seemed to be that you could reserve and tie up multiple rooms up till 5 days or so before the trip. So to get a room, you had to wait till the last minute to reserve and risk not finding anything for real, or book way out in advance. Sure enough, when I showed up, the resort was half empty (last trip to Port Orleans Riverside we were the only people in our entire building according to the front desk). But 6 weeks earlier, they were "booked up". The resort was a Ghost town. I loved it! No lines.
I wonder if Disney realizes that too-liberal reservations policies cost them money. I wonder why they do it that way? When I rent a beach home, I have to have a deposit there in a few days and the balance paid weeks before I even arrive. Surely some token charge for cancellations would be reasonable for everyone.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 1998
Since you have found it necessary to defend the words of another poster I'll address the issues you now raise:
If I have enough points to make 100 1-day reservations and that is how I choose to use my points, I am completely within my rights - both legally and spiritually- to make those reservations. You have no more right to be upset with how I make reservations than I have to be upset with your reservation habits. My sincere apology is still ready if you can show me where in my contract or in any DVC material, how that reservation strategy in any way, contradicts the spirit of the DVC program or violates any DVC policy. I have, in my hand, a promotional brochure suggesting that "reservations may be made for as little as one day." I have a promotional video that espouses the same concept as something unique to DVC. Please direct me to language that suggests how this is contrary to good membership. I realize that the one-day reservation is subject to change, but as long as it's the minimum prescribed reservation, I'll defend every member's right to use it. I fail to see how a series of one day reservations violates anyone else's opportunity to make a reservation. The 11 month reseration priority is available to everyone equally- or does the member in your example have some unfair advantage you forgot to mention? - or are you suggesting that one-day reservations are contrary to good member citizenship? I fail to see how this practice qualifies as "indiscriminant, inconsiderate action" and serves to "screw over" other members- whether you say you direct it towards me or not. Perhaps these concerns should be directed to DVC and the "indiscrimant, inconsiderate" policies they created and you agreed to in YOUR contract.
If reservation habits become a concern to DVC, there are already corrective provisions in the contract (at least mine) allowing a change to be made- without any input from me or any other member. If you are truly concerned that I, or any other member, will create a reservation imbalance, please take your complaint to DVC. Many have adopted this strategy in the past with other concerns. It is within our right (and I believe- responsibility) to direct our concerns about the program to the proper authority.
I'm sure you are an upstanding member of your community and society in general, but I fail to see where reservation habits make me, or any other member, less community minded, as you seem to suggest with your personal definition of "unreasonable reservation pattern". While you are certainly within your rights to define what is "unreasonable", unless DVC holds the same thought, my opinion and your opinion are meaningless.
As for the intent of the prior comment, I'll wait for an explanation from the poster who presented the thought, rather than trust your explanation for someone else's behavior. Since I'm the only one who shared on this very board that I do provide DVC trips for my staff, I'm still offended by that wordage as the example used as a violation, in spirit or rule, of anything related to DVC- in spite of your assertion to the contrary.
My apology offer still stands- I'll also apologize to you if you can produce the contractual language asked for.
I'm still patiently waiting for the contractual quotes.
From reading some of the posts, it appears to me that some people can book "hot" holiday weeks far out with no intention of using them, then sell the weeks to others for cash. I would assume a week booked over Christmas/New Years might be worth a pretty penny. Is this a problem that is affecting members' ability to book legitimately during those weeks?
I would never go during a busy time anyway, I hate crowds and lines, but it does seem unfair if people are tying up the rooms members want to make a profit during the hot times. Maybe it's too late for contractual reasons, but Disney really should try to control practices identified as harmful to members. Or do they already have ways of preventing this?
I would never go during a busy time anyway, I hate crowds and lines, but it does seem unfair if people are tying up the rooms members want to make a profit during the hot times. Maybe it's too late for contractual reasons, but Disney really should try to control practices identified as harmful to members. Or do they already have ways of preventing this?
Webmaster Doc,
It sounds like you have the values set of the stereotypical lawyer. Are you a lawyer?
People don't generally despise and distrust them for no reason. I won't take them on as customers in my business, nor will many people I know, because of their attitude of trying to skate by on legal technicalities rather than a spirit of cooperation and consideration for fellow humans. As any judge who has to decide legal disputes would tell you, you can't put everything in black and white. Sometimes it's assumed that the parties involved will have to actually behave like decent human beings.
An "I can do anything I darn well please" attitude seems like it would lead only to a life of lonliness, since most people don't want to deal with that.
I think all these people were asking for was a little reasonable consideration for others when making reservations. How hard is that?
It sounds like you have the values set of the stereotypical lawyer. Are you a lawyer?
People don't generally despise and distrust them for no reason. I won't take them on as customers in my business, nor will many people I know, because of their attitude of trying to skate by on legal technicalities rather than a spirit of cooperation and consideration for fellow humans. As any judge who has to decide legal disputes would tell you, you can't put everything in black and white. Sometimes it's assumed that the parties involved will have to actually behave like decent human beings.
An "I can do anything I darn well please" attitude seems like it would lead only to a life of lonliness, since most people don't want to deal with that.
I think all these people were asking for was a little reasonable consideration for others when making reservations. How hard is that?
TIdoublegaER
<a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
This is really the crux of this thread is about, not renting in general. There are some who have chosen to use their points for as a commercial venture to the determint of other owners. Our contract specifically forbids commercial use, but I don't think anyone here knows how wide spread this is.
BTW, to me commerical venture is renting points out as a business operation and trying to make a profit. Not a boss giving vacations to his/her staff or even renting points to the staff. I only wish my boss were that generous! Mine wanted me to reschedule surgery to have a large tumor removed so I could attend a training class! (I didn't reschedule)
- Joined
- Aug 14, 1998
Please then define what is "rude to others". Please be specific, so we can all understand exactly what behavior constitutes rude behavior by other members. Please also suggest how MS can control this behavior and discern it from honest, acceptable behavior.
For some, it apparently means making more than one reservation. Others have expressed that it means reserving weekdays. You seem offended by one-day reservations. Others have expressed how the personal habits of others may be considered rude. It would seem that we all may have a personal definition that extends far beyond the limitations provided within our ownership.
TIdoublegaER
<a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
I think he did it on purpose!!
We haven't had anything this interesting in a while!
We haven't had anything this interesting in a while!- Status
Share this page
GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE
Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.
Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!
Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.
Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!
