Public school

[ksjayhawks]

In some schools, Algebra 3 is a review of Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 and is designed for the student who struggles with math and could not pass a higher level math course.

Also, I can see why your dd could be scheduled to retake Algebra 2 in the spring. The computer does not know why she failed the course. Many kids fail the course due to not turning in work, not trying, etc. So, it is standard practice for students to retake failed classes while simultaneously enrolled in another course in the subject area or after the other subject area requirements have been met.

Another poster mentioned taking a business math class--in the districts in our area, that class would not count as a math class. So it may be the same way in OP's district. Also, some colleges may not accept it as the 4th math credit.

Have you considered having dd attend a community college for her first one, maybe even two, years of college? It sounds like she is going to need more help and assistance than she may get in a large university setting. I know the comm colleges around here have fantastic programs for working with kids who struggled in high school, especially those with learning disabilities. Many times their class sizes are smaller, they have resource centers and tutors to work with kids, etc. I realize it may not be her (or your dream) that she goes to a community college first, but in the long run it could be the best thing for her.

 

[declansdad]

I know this is a hot topic, but honestly, my daughter's HS is just driving me crazy. Some of you know that DD17, now a senior, has struggled mightily with Algebra 2. She has literally been taking it for an entire 12 months and cannot seem to pass it. This is despite having 3 different tutors, including her own teacher. Two weeks ago, after withdrawing her from her second online course (both of which were suggested by the guidance counselor who now vehemetly denies it), I met with her GC. We agreed that DD will retake the Alg 2 yet again in a limited classroom where she can get extra help every day. And she will eventually be tested for LD. She still has to take Algebra 3.

Okay, yesterday was senior advisement where they get their schedules. In her schedule she is slated for Algebra 3 FIRST semester, followed by Algebra 2 SECOND semester. Her GCs response: "Well, we've lost 15 teachers this year and some courses had to be changed." Um, okay. Are NONE of the remaining teachers capable of looking at this schedule and seeing that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE? What is wrong with these people? The GC offered to "try to get this fixed,but there's no guarantee." Are you kidding me? DD is in serious jeopardy of not graduating on time! GCs respond: "Well, then she might not graduate on time. Sorry."

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS. I hate public schools.

Your daughter is having trouble passing algebra and as a result is in danger of not graduating in time. The school has created a schedule that could allow for that to happen and you think they are idiots. Maybe you should be looking at how this could work and appreciate the fact that they are still trying to help her graduate on time. I really don't think the issue is a public school.

 

[creativeamanda]

Your daughter is having trouble passing algebra and as a result is in danger of not graduating in time. The school has created a schedule that could allow for that to happen and you think they are idiots. Maybe you should be looking at how this could work and appreciate the fact that they are still trying to help her graduate on time. I really don't think the issue is a public school.

It's just as important to them that the op's daughter graduates on time, as that affects their Annual Yearly Progress.

I hate it when parents clump all public schools together in one lump. I've been a special education teacher for 15 years and I don't understand it. Sure we have problems with the schools, but if you get your ducks in a row, speak to them civally, and document everything, then you are going to learn that for the most part, educators want your child to succeed.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Not sure why this is a "public school" problem. Really, this can and does happen in private schools too.

 

[creativeamanda]

And she will eventually be tested for LD. .

How can the guidance counselor tell you this without an multidisciplinary team meeting?

Honestly, it sounds like she probably does have a learning disability, but a guidance counselor can't tell you they are going to have your child tested. They just can't.

And if they did have the team meeting, why are they dismissing the 60-day timeline? Schools have 60 days once an initial evaluation permission request is signed by the parent in which to report back. And truthfully, you agreeing to one in a meeting with or without a signature legally starts that 60 clock. And it's 60 calendar days, not 60 school days.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Her school actually only requires 3 maths to graduate. However the Georgia university system requires 4 maths for admission, usually taken one class per year. So she has to pass all 4 or they won't even consider her. We can't afford out of state or private college tuition, so she's limited to in state schools.

We have had our 3 kids in public, private, and homeschool. Two of the kids have learning disabilities, DS23 has severe LD in math and DS15 is profoundly mentally handicapped. So we are very well schooled in how this works. Many, many of our interactions with the local public schools have been negative. When DS23 was in school his special ed advisor actually told him, in my presence, that he should just quit school and get a job. In my presence, she told him that he was not college material and he would never be successful. Unbelieveable! I have never hated anyone, but I hate that woman.

We live in the metro Atlanta area. Our county has great schools. Our kids have attended 3 different elementary schools, 2 middle schools, and 1 high school. Not every school has been bad, but we have had some bad experiences with each child. I think I have a right to my opinion.

Yes but with her 20 on her ACT and her low GPA, she may not even be able to get into a state school.

Plus you stated she may not graduate? How is this possible if she passes Alg 2? She will be able to graduate.

Why butcher her GPA by taking Alg 3?

I would have her skip Alg 3, try to pass a different math if it available so she can graduate, go to community college 1 yr and then apply to a state school as a transfer.

 

[Kathi OD]

Her school actually only requires 3 maths to graduate. However the Georgia university system requires 4 maths for admission, usually taken one class per year. So she has to pass all 4 or they won't even consider her. We can't afford out of state or private college tuition, so she's limited to in state schools.

Ahh...I see now. I see that some of the Georgia University System schools offer testing or remediation class options for those students who don't complete all of their high school requirements. Maybe this is something that might work as a back-up plan? (just trying to brainstorm possible solutions, not that this would be your first choice)

We have had our 3 kids in public, private, and homeschool. Two of the kids have learning disabilities, DS23 has severe LD in math and DS15 is profoundly mentally handicapped. So we are very well schooled in how this works. Many, many of our interactions with the local public schools have been negative. When DS23 was in school his special ed advisor actually told him, in my presence, that he should just quit school and get a job. In my presence, she told him that he was not college material and he would never be successful. Unbelieveable! I have never hated anyone, but I hate that woman.

I'd hate that woman, too. As much as I hate the woman who told my DS24 in the 7th grade that he wasn't college material (he also has a learning disability & is now a college graduate who earned honors in his program). When your children are struggling, yet doing the best they can, why in the world would you shoot down their dreams? If they aren't college material, believe me, they're going to figure it out by senior year (the parent might not, but the child surely will).

We live in the metro Atlanta area. Our county has great schools. Our kids have attended 3 different elementary schools, 2 middle schools, and 1 high school. Not every school has been bad, but we have had some bad experiences with each child. I think I have a right to my opinion.

My point wasn't that you can't have an opinion, of course you can! My point was that your opinion should be about your experiences with that particular public school(s), not ALL public schools. Not all public schools are lacking, in much the same way as not all private schools are exemplary.

I'm sure you will continue to pursue the issue of DD being scheduled for Alg 3 before Alg. 2. You are right that expecting DD to be successful in a course that builds on a class she hasn't mastered yet, and is taking again AFTER that class, makes no sense.

 

[southernbohemian]

My older sister was always an honors student, graduated top of her high school class, went to an honors college - and could not pass Spanish to save her life. At her honors college she had to take 3 semesters to graduate, and I think she failied each class at least once before moving on to the next. In the end she couldn't finish the third semester at the honors college and had to transfer to a state university (which only required 2 semesters) to graduate because she would have otherwise been stuck in college for another year (after doing four years plus summer school Spanish classes).

The fact that your GC was not bending over backwards to help your daughter (who is obvoiusly putting in the effort and still having problems) is sad, but not all kids graduate on time. That might not be the advice you wanted from the GC, but it was honest. You have to work inside the system and not expect everything be turned upside down for your one child. The GC said they would try to get it fixed, what more can they do? Hire a teacher just for your daughter?

I don't see how you think things would be different in a private school - there she would also be responsible for passing the classes needed to graduate and they would not be able to create a teacher's schedule that fits your daughter, but not anyone else in the senior class. Smaller classes don't seem to be the issue since she still has problems learning with tutors.

I don't want to come out as harsh, because I know how frustrating it is having watched my sister kill herself over something she could not get (turns out that she has a hearing issue and has trouble learning audibly - which explains why she could read and write Spanish, but couldn't converse in it. However, instead of turning that frustration on people who cannot do any better than they are doing, use it to fuel your next move - you have gotten some good advice on here about going up the chain of command, etc.

 

[Pigeon]

When DS23 was in school his special ed advisor actually told him, in my presence, that he should just quit school and get a job. In my presence, she told him that he was not college material and he would never be successful.

It happens to a variety of students. I had perfect SAT scores and was on the high honor roll. My GC told my mother that "college isn't for everyone." Another rocket scientist in the guidance department told my BIL not to apply to an ivy league school as he was just wasting money and didn't have a prayer of getting in. BIL graduated with honors from the ivy in question and is a physician.

The schedule is nuts. As you know by now, you have to go in and make a fuss. We are in the process of doing this with our daughter right now over getting her scheduled in the appropriate level classes, and although it's taken us weeks, we're getting somewhere. And we have a generally good school system that I mostly like.

I just feel sorry for kids whose parents don't realize that you have to be your child's advocate and expect the schools to get it right. They very often don't.

 

[Kathi OD]

Yes but with her 20 on her ACT and her low GPA, she may not even be able to get into a state school.

Plus you stated she may not graduate? How is this possible if she passes Alg 2? She will be able to graduate.

Why butcher her GPA by taking Alg 3?

I would have her skip Alg 3, try to pass a different math if it available so she can graduate, go to community college 1 yr and then apply to a state school as a transfer.

I did a little research and the problem seems to be that in Georgia, all the community colleges are part of the University System and have the same requirements for admission as the 4-year schools. However, there is a remediation class that can be taken at some of those 2-year schools.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I did a little research and the problem seems to be that in Georgia, all the community colleges are part of the University System and have the same requirements for admission as the 4-year schools. However, there is a remediation class that can be taken at some of those 2-year schools.

Wow, that totally blows. Here in MO you take a placement test and then they place you at your level.

Now I will say that my dd skipped English her SR yr. It was risk but she did it to graduate early. (We moved there and she did one semester.)

 

[ugadog99]

Minky, it can be fixed. Just dog at it...keep moving up if you have to. Do not take the boatload of bull that it can't be fixed. Be the squeaky wheel. (Remember: I'm a teacher in a public school system in GA not too far from you. They can do it...you just have to MAKE them.)

Edited to add: Put EVERYTHING in email to keep you covered. It is highly unlikely they will answer you in email because those can be kept for a number of years and can be used in any litigation. However, I do all my communication with my DD's school through email. Of course, I have the advantage of using the system email so I know it's saved for a very long time.

 

[minkydog]

I have no problem with DD going to a community college. In fact, I would prefer it because our Georgia CCs are smaller and more geared to students who struggle. DD & I are scheduled to go on 3 college go-sees next week, one of which IS a community college.

I met with the GC 2 weeks ago and thought we had this schedule ironed out. That's what upset me so much. In the meeting, during which she took notes and I saw them, it was agreed that DD would take the smaller Alg 2 class this fall. I guess that's why I don't understand how she got Alg 3 instead. The Georgia Regents system requires one math higher than Alg2, either Alg 3, Trig or Calculus. Business math is for a Tech Prep Diploma. She wants to graduate with a dual diploma, College Prep and Tech Prep. She's in line to get that if she can pass Alg 2 and Alg 3. I have respectfully requested a schedule change in writing with her 12th grade admin. All my interactions with the staff have been cordial, but assertive. I know I can get more flies with honey than salt. School starts in 2 weeks, so she should know something Aug 5. If not, I'll be up there to respectfully remind them of her situation.

Unfortunately, in my county homeschooled students are NOT allowed to take classes or join school clubs of any kind unless they have been doctor-ordered to take their schooling from home. One of DDs friends has severe anxiety and was failing everything, including band, so her doc put her on home school. The school system was required to provide home tutoring and allow her to continue in band. She has done well and will rejoin her class this fall.

I think the issue is not so much that she might not graduate, but that she might not graduate with a College Prep diploma required to get into Georgia state schools. All due to this math. Her other grades are good. She tests badly and she will be taking the ACT again to try to bring her score up some more. Interestingly, her high score last time was Math--at 22, up from 15. Significant difference, IMO. She needs to strive for a composite of 22 AT THE LEAST. Which I think she can definitely attain.

About the LD testing---I am aware of the law and I should have elaborated on our conversation. The GC did say that they have to do a 12 week period of observation, after which they will meet and make recommendations. I am going to do everything in my power to see that she gets tested before she goes to college. She was tested in 6th grade and had some difficulties with math, but not quite low enough to require special ed. I believe that she DOES have an LD(considering that DS23 and I both have LDs in math, I wouldn't be surprised.) When I homeschooled the kids, I always had math tutors for the kids and I attended with them so that I could understand it too. So I don't know what else I could have done to help them along.

If you've stuck this out,I appreciate you're reading along. I appreciate all the various opinions and suggestions, even the ones I disagree with . That's the great thing about the DIS.

 

[Wishing on a star]

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS. I hate public schools.

I'll have to admit that these very words have crossed my mind many times.

As the parent of a child with an outside, reputable, diagnosis of a learning disability... my son will never walk back into our local public school system.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I know this is a hot topic, but honestly, my daughter's HS is just driving me crazy. Some of you know that DD17, now a senior, has struggled mightily with Algebra 2. She has literally been taking it for an entire 12 months and cannot seem to pass it. This is despite having 3 different tutors, including her own teacher. Two weeks ago, after withdrawing her from her second online course (both of which were suggested by the guidance counselor who now vehemetly denies it), I met with her GC. We agreed that DD will retake the Alg 2 yet again in a limited classroom where she can get extra help every day. And she will eventually be tested for LD. She still has to take Algebra 3.

Okay, yesterday was senior advisement where they get their schedules. In her schedule she is slated for Algebra 3 FIRST semester, followed by Algebra 2 SECOND semester. Her GCs response: "Well, we've lost 15 teachers this year and some courses had to be changed." Um, okay. Are NONE of the remaining teachers capable of looking at this schedule and seeing that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE? What is wrong with these people? The GC offered to "try to get this fixed,but there's no guarantee." Are you kidding me? DD is in serious jeopardy of not graduating on time! GCs respond: "Well, then she might not graduate on time. Sorry."

THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS. I hate public schools.

No she should not EVENTUALLY get tested for LD write a letter and the school has 30 days to test her at your request. Don't wait for them to get around to it. Sounds like she has some sort of LD but you need to take things into your own hands if she is found to have math disability they they HAVE to give her the accomodations and modifications as well as the services provided on the ed plan. IN ADDITION when she takes high stakes tests she can also get accomodations. Threaten to get an advocate and see how fast they respond.

 

[ugadog99]

Yes, you can mention the advocate and also mention getting her physician involved. Public schools don't like that too much, believe me.

 

[richmond282]

If our school system would allow her to participate in her show choir, I'd homeschool her in a minute. We homeschooled her very successfully until 5th grade when DH got sick.

This is not true. I am a band director and I have taught home school students in my band. They had to register for the class through the school and show up every day.

Unfortunately, in my county homeschooled students are NOT allowed to take classes or join school clubs of any kind unless they have been doctor-ordered to take their schooling from home.

I don't live in GA, but this is simply wrong. You are entitled to take classes at a public school if you live in that district. There are hoops you have to jump through (NOT a doctor's note), but it CAN be done.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It sounds like her classes were entered with the assumption that she would pass Alg 2. Class selections are done way in advance.

Requests are entered for students, but that is different than running the algorithm that actually schedules a student into classes. And it depends on the district. My daughter's 9th grade schedule was handed to her on 8th grade graduation, but I know quite a few districts that wait until after the school year is done.

But there is also a way of setting up a system so that if a student has requested two courses in the same year, and they have to be taken in order, it will place them in the right order. That would be independent of previous year grades.

In this case, it's possible they don't use prerequisites at all.

 

[Phlip]

Bottom line-public schools in the US are required by law to teach everyone.
You need to light your torch, grab your pitchfork march up to the school demand to see the Principal and demand that the schedule gets fixed. Demand. You need to make sure that you have done it all in a respectful polite manner, have your ducks in a row, and demand that this get fixed pronto. If you get the run around from the Principal march right down to the Superintendents office and demand that it get fixed. Call the school board and then the local paper.
These people need to remember just who the heck pays their salary. Parents need to get it through their heads that they need to know just what their kids need to do for school and follow through. The people at the school do not need to parent your kids, you do. The school people need to do their job, teach the kids. Rant over.
Thanks-P

 

[creativeamanda]

Unfortunately, in my county homeschooled students are NOT allowed to take classes or join school clubs of any kind unless they have been doctor-ordered to take their schooling from home. One of DDs friends has severe anxiety and was failing everything, including band, so her doc put her on home school. The school system was required to provide home tutoring and allow her to continue in band. She has done well and will rejoin her class this fall.

You can fight that--you pay taxes, so you pay to fund those programs. Just because it's never been done doesn't mean you can't.

About the LD testing---I am aware of the law and I should have elaborated on our conversation. The GC did say that they have to do a 12 week period of observation, after which they will meet and make recommendations. I am going to do everything in my power to see that she gets tested before she goes to college. She was tested in 6th grade and had some difficulties with math, but not quite low enough to require special ed. I believe that she DOES have an LD(considering that DS23 and I both have LDs in math, I wouldn't be surprised.) When I homeschooled the kids, I always had math tutors for the kids and I attended with them so that I could understand it too. So I don't know what else I could have done to help them along.

Not necessarily. If you have proof that your child even with interventions cannot pass a class, then that is enough to warrant testing. I would argue that you personally have enough interventions documented over a long enough period of time.

Further, a parent with enough proof can request testing. They need a certain amount of observations, yes, put on their forms, yes, but there is no law that says where the information can come from. The guidance counselor does not know the law as well as a good special education teacher does. That's not their area of expertise.