Problem in education

[Goofyluver]

I'm just stalking you sweetums.

*girlie squeal*

 

[edwardsfire]

*rim shot*

Wrong forum,

 

[disneyjunkie]

God in and drugs/gangs out....
Hows that.

What about those who don't believe in God?

What's stopping those of us who do believe from praying during the day?

Private schools that are Religion based (any religion)
Are doing WAY better in all aspects. They have WAY less "issues" whether it be...Drugs,poor achieving students,discipline etc.
It is just a better enviornment.

Of course they have fewer issues. They are free to kick out those students who refuse to follow their rules. The public school system doesn't have that option.

 

[edwardsfire]

What about those who don't believe in God?

What's stopping those of us who do believe from praying during the day?





Of course they have fewer issues. They are free to kick out those students who refuse to follow their rules. The public school system doesn't have that option.

Well there you go! They SHOULD be able to kick out the bad kids.
Then things wouldnt be so....bad.

 

[Goofyluver]

Wrong forum,

I thought it to be appropos...

 

[lisadr]

Well, YES. When we had God in schools...circa Before the late 70's...
Things were pretty good.
Then came the aclu (american communist liberal union) and messed things up.
I can tell you this: Private schools that are Religion based (any religion)
Are doing WAY better in all aspects. They have WAY less "issues" whether it be...Drugs,poor achieving students,discipline etc.
It is just a better enviornment.
Now, yes, some public schools in small cities are VERY safe and very well run.
Im not talking about all public schools.

The problem doesn't necessarily start in schools. Kids are gang recruited in their neighborhoods. I can tell you from experience that a lot of times gangs will form based on ethnic differences. So you it is not uncommon to see Puerto Rican kids and Italian (just using a personal example) kids form rival gangs made up of both Catholic and Public school kids.

The issue starts over simple differences and grows to include other issues, but the fights get more and more violent. Trust me- when you chose not to affiliate with either side, you become target practice for both.

I might also add that if private schools are doing better it might be due to the fact that private schools have more money and resources that most public schools. Again-try learning in a class with a student to teacher ratio of 37:1.

When I went to school, we still said "under god" in the pledge and took a moment for silent prayer. So I don't think it's god as much as money that set these private schools apart.

JMHO

Oh and P.S.-where was god when I got my tail feathers stomped by a known gang of 4 girls in catholic school uniforms?

 

[meliss8599]

Not all of us.

Please expand, I'm curious as to why you believe that teachers being assigned (often 30+) students with unbelievable variances in ability/disability levels is not part of the education problem.

I feel the way I do b/c many days I see the following played out in classrooms:

The teacher is sitting with the low level student helping him/her understand a concept (this student should have already been prepared modified work and had been accomodated in the classroom) while the gifted student comes over and tells the teacher s/he is already done with the work and wants to know what to do next (this teacher has ideally prepared higher level or extra work prior to today for this student to complete), while an ADHD student may be walking around the classroom sharpening his/her pencil for the eight time while talking out loud and disrupting the other students currently working on their assignment.

Most teachers can easily work through this if the exceptional students were few in numbers; unfortunately, with overcrowded schools and insufficient funding, the aforementioned scenario is more common than not

 

[edwardsfire]

The problem doesn't necessarily start in schools. Kids are gang recruited in their neighborhoods. I can tell you from experience that a lot of times gangs will form based on ethnic differences. So you it is not uncommon to see Puerto Rican kids and Italian (just using a personal example) kids form rival gangs made up of both Catholic and Public school kids.

The issue starts over simple differences and grows to include other issues, but the fights get more and more violent. Trust me- when you chose not to affiliate with either side, you become target practice for both.

I might also add that if private schools are doing better it might be due to the fact that private schools have more money and resources that most public schools. Again-try learning in a class with a student to teacher ratio of 37:1.

When I went to school, we still said "under god" in the pledge and took a moment for silent prayer. So I don't think it's god as much as money that set these private schools apart.

JMHO

Oh and P.S.-where was god when I got my tail feathers stomped by a known gang of 4 girls in catholic school uniforms?

Hmm, I dont know. MORE money is spent per child in public schools rather than private. Money isnt the issue. We, as a nation, spend more and more money on education every year.
I'll give the public schools in our area this much credit....
They still say the pledge, and the actually say Merry Christmas and Easter Break! Maybe there is hope.

 

[Goofyluver]

Hmm, I dont know. MORE money is spent per child in public schools rather than private. Money isnt the issue. We, as a nation, spend more and more money on education every year.

Money isn't the issue everywhere, nor is money the only issue.

But, money IS an issue.

Let's see...my school district...

We cut teacher's jobs because we didn't have enough funding to pay them. We now have overcrowded classrooms where children may not receive the quality education they deserve.

What else does money pay for?

Supplies. Ancillary staff. Programs. Textbooks. Teacher continuing education. Shall I go on?

Do you have children Edward?

 

[edwardsfire]

Money isn't the issue everywhere, nor is money the only issue.

But, money IS an issue.

Let's see...my school district...

We cut teacher's jobs because we didn't have enough funding to pay them. We now have overcrowded classrooms where children may not receive the quality education they deserve.

What else does money pay for?

Supplies. Ancillary staff. Programs. Textbooks. Teacher continuing education. Shall I go on?

Do you have children Edward?

2
One is 4 and in preschool, the other is 1.
Our preschooler is in a Private school. He only goes 2 times per week.
I was commenting about the $$ issue cause alot of folks think that more of will solve everything.
Alexander G. Bell was educated in a shack basically, he seemed to do pretty well in life.
So, obviously..we cant say that the lack of money is the cause.

 

[Goofyluver]

2
One is 4 and in preschool, the other is 1.
Our preschooler is in a Private school. He only goes 2 times per week.
I was commenting about the $$ issue cause alot of folks think that more of will solve everything.
Alexander G. Bell was educated in a shack basically, he seemed to do pretty well in life.
So, obviously..we cant say that the lack of money is the cause.

The cause?

Meh...nah.

One of the problems?

Hell yea.

Let's talk again when your kids are older.

 

[tasha99]

I think the main problems are:

1. Too many uninvolved parents (Yes, many of them single. I'm a single parent, and I'll admit that my kids would be better off (and possibly better students) with a dad in their lives. They wouldn't be better off with the dad I unfortunately chose years ago, though.)

2. The teachers union, which is too powerful and protects teachers' interests at the expense of their students' interests.

3. Poverty.

4. Money going to administrator salaries and "stuff" rather than hiring more teachers to keep class size down.

I must say I'm shocked at all the hate special ed is getting. I think ALL children should be educated to the level of their ability.

 

[Cool-Beans]

The problem with the education system in America is that there is too much damn money. It has been taken over by crooks who care more about how to funnel that dough to themselves and their friends than how to educate children.

 

[bekkiz]

So, my group of friends from grad school (an MA Ed program) and I are such dorks, that we spent the night during my bachelorette party drinking and discussing educational policy We've come up with a number of brilliant, in our own humble opinion, ideas.

1) We needs to stop viewing our public education system as a gateway to college. The more I taught, the more I realized that college is not for a lot of kids. And the more time I tried to convince these kids that learning and getting good grades was important to get to college, the less likely they were to listen. They knew they weren't college bound, and it was just silly for my to treat them otherwise. That isn't to say that we shouldn't encourage kids to persue higher education, I just think that our high schools and the students in particular suffer for it.

Instead, I believe kids should be allowed to opt into some sort of vocational ed during their high school years or even perhaps a kind of Americorps/National Guard type of service thing when they're 16. This would allieviate so many issues at the high school level.

2) Private schools work better for a whole lot of reasons, but the #1--they HAVE to be run like a business. Public schools don't and so you see a lot of waste and bureaucratic nightmares. I haven't quite gotten a handle on how to do this, but each individual school needs a lot more autonomy and accountablity for their spending. School district offices/personal, as far as I'm concerned, need to be shrunk down to like 2 people. I HATED that when I graduated from my MA program, I would make about 16,000 less than the administrative assistant to some random district honcho (not even the super). Not only have I found many people in the high eschews of school admin completly out of touch, but frankly, they're often totally worthless.

3) Standardized tests are ruining the country. We need a workforce of people who are able to use reason and logic to problem solve. We need people who can think outside of the box and to work together. We need people who can analyze various sources of information and then form thier own opinion. Multiple choice tests, and the ways teachers use to train kids to pass them do NOTHING to improve society. A well managed discussion, or research project or debate or science experiment are so much more important to student growth, and these are the things being pushed aside to ensure kids can pass a test. And the REALLY funny thing is--when you teach kids how to use logic and reason, those kids can pass the tests. Every standardized test is a logic game at its heart. I know there are a lot of eachers who aren't willing to put the time in to creat great curriculum for this purpose, but that's another issue all together

I could go on and on, but I think those are my 3 most important parts

 

[lisadr]

Hmm, I dont know. MORE money is spent per child in public schools rather than private. Money isnt the issue. We, as a nation, spend more and more money on education every year.
I'll give the public schools in our area this much credit....
They still say the pledge, and the actually say Merry Christmas and Easter Break! Maybe there is hope.

I am gonna simply speak on experience and nothing else. If you can afford to send your kid to private school, there is more money and resources from you alone. Also when you factor in the money spent per child are you including the extras like metal detectors and ESL teachers, just to name a few things off the top of my head. What about kids who are fed by the school? I don't think many private schools have students applying for free lunch.


Again, I am not using any number. I am just saying that there are a lot of variables to consider.

You brought up god but there are a lot of things that will override any religion being taught/brought into a school.

 

[tasha99]

I am gonna simply speak on experience and nothing else. If you can afford to send your kid to private school, there is more money and resources from you alone. Also when you factor in the money spent per child are you including the extras like metal detectors and ESL teachers, just to name a few things off the top of my head. What about kids who are fed by the school? I don't think many private schools have students applying for free lunch.

Again, I am not using any number. I am just saying that there are a lot of variables to consider.

You brought up god but there are a lot of things that will override any religion being taught/brought into a school.

I don't think the money for free lunch comes from the school budget. Actually, I think it links the school to more Title 1 money. But I agree with you that money isn't as simple an issue as it seems. My youngest goes to a Catholic school with a large class size (30 kids per class). They can get away with having that work because there is no special ed and there is an overabundance of parent volunteers (seriously, we had an overnight fieldtrip once, and there were 27 chaperones for 30 kids. Plus the teacher and the aide.) Normally, in a class with more diverse kids, I would think 1:15 or 1:20 would be better.

I think on some level, money isa problem, but where do you put it? No matter how fancy the school building is, or how new the equipment, it won't help as much as involved parents who hold their children accountable and a good teacher:student ratio. Money in the students' homes is an issue as well, but I don't even know where to begin with that.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I can only talk about Uk schools but we seem to be having a lot of the same problems (if I ever have a child s/he is never going to a state school but only private school after I got told by the head of my middle school that if he was as stupid as me he would kill himself I wouldn't put any child in a state run school)
1 Children are not taught to learn, they are not really taught at all just told to learn what will get them through the standard tests
2 parents don't and in often cases cant disipline children because social services are being told that disipline is bad.
3 too much homework
4 too many parents being forced to work too many hours just to survive if you can't afford to be there you are going to have trouble
5 some single parents I know one wonderful woman who fell out of love and brought her children as far as she could to stop them from seing their father not because he was abusive but because she didn't love him the children shouldn't do (maybe a problem in the uk don't know about USA there is a man at work who if he ever dates his ex stops him seeing his son and she left him for another man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
6 Bring back special schools how many teachers in mainstream are capable of dealing with special needs children let them have schools that help them gain as much as possible with better teachers and stop just sticking them in anywhere because we are too cheap to think what does this child need rather than its money waaaaaaa.
7 Remember each child is an individual stop thinking herd and think what does this child need to achieve their best potential instead of thinking of a large number of children too many children are falling down too big gaps
8 Help children find the joy of learning instead of killing it dead as is done now
9 Stop fiddling with the education system chopping and changing find what children need not what we want.

 

[zulaya]

What is the most important problem America is facing in education today????


I'm taking a grad class and this is one of our questions...wanted some other opinions.

No disrespect meant to any teachers, but there is so much WASTE in the education system. Wasted time on things that have nothing to do with the actual education of the student.

Schools are unwilling to admit that they need to look at their own budgets and see where they can find some cost savings to make themselves run better. Schools are in business and their business is educating children. While they aren't for-profit, I think they see levys as an easy way to make money, not always thinking they are bleeding the tax payer dry, when a little look at their processes could go a long way.

I came across a website once...http://www.leaneducation.com
and it's a company run by a former teacher and a LEAN master. Anyone in the business world knows that LEAN/Six Sigma strategies are ways to streamline your business and make it more efficient. These people are trying to get schools to do the same thing.

If schools got their costs under control, I bet a lot of their problems could be solved and more of their goals in education met.

I know I'm appalled at some of the waste I see in some of my local schools.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I've never understood the "private schools work better" assumption. On what basis is this being measured? Which privat schools? Better for who?

My parents sent me to private school because they bought into this idea. And at least in my area for me it just a lie (unless you're talking about paying $10,000 a year for an Ivy League prep type school). I ended up transferring to the public school in 8th grade because they couldn't afford the tuition anymore. Guess what they had in public school? Computers! That students were actually allowed to use/taught to use. And Honors classes--none of those in the private school I attend at all at that grade level. They also had electives for 7th and 8th graders. Those didn't exist for 7th and 8th graders at the private school either.

When I got to high school and we started figuring out what colleges were looking (e.g. things like AP classes and lots of them) we were thanking my lucky stars that my parents couldn't afford the private high school where they would have been paying a few thousand a year to send me to a school which offered fewer AP classes, fewer honors classes, fewer electives, fewer extracurricular activities, and overall fewer servies.

And the public school managed to do all of this even though it *had* to accept any student who got thrown out of the private school for discipline problems (and any student who could no longer afford to pay for the private school, like me!). I have no doubt, if you look at testing scores you'd probably find better averages at the private school (after all, these testing scores tend to be correlated with income, and surely there aren't going to be many low income students at a school that costs a few thousand a year). But I don't take those scores to give any relevant information about which school was *better*.

Better for who? There may be some students the private school was better for, but it sure as heck was not better for me, who was trying to get into the best college possible and to get the most merit based financial aid possible (both of which depended heavily on the # of honors and AP classes and the number of other extracurricular and academic stuff one was involved in.)

Also: This was a Catholic school. Strangely the constant prayers and religion class and church attending didn't make me any smarter than I was in public school, nor did it magically get the number of AP classes up to the level offered by the public school.

 

[daughtersrus]

My youngest goes to a Catholic school with a large class size (30 kids per class). They can get away with having that work because there is no special ed

Are you sure? There are MANY children that attend parochial schools that have an IEP.