Pro Choice or Not

[declansdad]

I love it when people post on a thread just to say its pointless to post on that thread.

You have said that the man should have "some weight in the decison" you have said that in the case of a tie "it should not automatically default to the woman" but you have given no solutions, no suggestions. We all have said that the man has a say, is allowed an opinion etc, but that is where it ends legally. He states his opinion, she makes the ultimate decision.

What more do you want?

just go back and read my responses and you will see.

 

[kristen821]

Then conversely, the father has the right to terminate his baby, just as the mother has the right.

You can't have it only one way - You can't say that it is the only the woman's choice to keep the baby (if the father wants an abortion), but allow the father to have a say if he wants to keep the baby (if the mother wants an abortion.)

What you just said:

Mother wants baby - father wants to terminate: only mother's choice, father has no say

Mother wants to terminate - father wants baby: father has a say in keeping his baby.

You can't have it one way for one situation and another way for the other situation.

If you want to give the father equal rights in keeping the baby, you must also acknowledge that the father has equal rights in terminating the baby.

Otherwise your argument becomes hypocritical.

If they both want to terminate legally it is thier right(personally I would go the adoption route). Why kill a baby that somebody wants and loves.

 

[chobie]

So the mother has the right to keep the baby if she wishes, as does the father?. The father has no right to force her to have the abortion and the mother has no right to an abortion.

Then the reality is this *father's rights* arguement is a sham...It's not about the fathers rights. It's about making sure there are less abortions. .If the father wants an abortion than his rights fly out the window,

You hit the nail on the head. It's just like those parental consent laws for underage girls, in most states they led to more abortions not less.

Almost everyone would like to see less abortions. There are so many different ways to do this that don't involve the legal fight for abortion, but the people who want to stop abortions the most, rarely seem to want to discuss those other ways to stop abortion.

 

[chobie]

just go back and read my responses and you will see.

Sorry, but all I see is what "should" happen but no solutions on how to make that should a reality.

 

[barbeml]

You know what, this discussion has become pointless. No one can show me a post on this thread that says the man should be able to force/control what happens to a woman's body. That hasn't been the point of any of my posts and I don't believe of any other poster.

Unfortunately, there were a bunch of well-to-do white men in expensive suits debating the other night and, with one exception, they all believe THEY have a right to control what I do with MY body, even though we've never even met.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard any pro-lifers calling for the banning of in vitro. If abortion becomes illegal, that should become illegal as well.

 

[Cool-Beans]

The issue of the father's right wouldn't be an issue if the woman didn't tell him. If it is all, "It's my body" and "It's my choice" and me, me, me stuff, then why even tell the guy? If it is all about you, then you handle it. Alone. On your own. Your decision, your repurcussions, YOU take care of it.

I think it is horrid to tell someone you're carrying their baby but are going to abort it. No reason for it.

And I really do think guys get screwed in this. If THEY want the abortion and she doesn't, everyone says, "Well, it is your baby, you must pay child support." And if a guy doesn't want the abortion, he gets told, "Well, it isn't your body, so you get no say."

Seriously, they get totally screwed. But that's the way God set it up.

While I think it is morally reprehensible to walk away from a child you created, I really believe that if women are legally able to do it, then men ought to be able to, too. Flip side, though, the baby gets screwed. What a mess. Glad I'm not the one who has to make that call.

 

[nhpooh]

Female and very, very strongly pro-choice.

Me too

 

[nhpooh]

 

[Luv'sTink]

The issue of the father's right wouldn't be an issue if the woman didn't tell him. If it is all, "It's my body" and "It's my choice" and me, me, me stuff, then why even tell the guy? If it is all about you, then you handle it. Alone. On your own. Your decision, your repurcussions, YOU take care of it.

I think it is horrid to tell someone you're carrying their baby but are going to abort it. No reason for it.

And I really do think guys get screwed in this. If THEY want the abortion and she doesn't, everyone says, "Well, it is your baby, you must pay child support." And if a guy doesn't want the abortion, he gets told, "Well, it isn't your body, so you get no say."

Seriously, they get totally screwed. But that's the way God set it up.

While I think it is morally reprehensible to walk away from a child you created, I really believe that if women are legally able to do it, then men ought to be able to, too. Flip side, though, the baby gets screwed. What a mess. Glad I'm not the one who has to make that call.

What about the guy that said "Yes, I want it" then after awhile or after it is born walks away and then says "I never said I wanted it"?

Women get "screwed" this way all the time.

 

[kristen821]

I think once the baby is born the mother would never consider herself "screwed"

 

[Luv'sTink]

If you as a man or a women don't want a child you don't have sex, it really is that simple.

Or the extreme....

A friend of the family knew he never wanted kids so he got a vasectomy, no oops and no women could "trap" him. And a women who didn't had her tubes tide, that took a lot but she got her wish.

 

[Luv'sTink]

I think once the baby is born the mother would never consider herself "screwed"

I was using her terminoligy.

 

[Freyja]

I think once the baby is born the mother would never consider herself "screwed"

Unfortunately this is not true. I know a woman with twins who feels terrible all the time, knowing that she never should have had them in the first place (long story though).

Of course, most people never really regret having their children but that does not mean they wouldn´t have been better off without them. And in my opinion, a lot of children would have been better off if they had never been born.

 

[chobie]

I think once the baby is born the mother would never consider herself "screwed"

Really, tell that to woman on welfare who has never seen a dime of child support. Tell that to the women who put their kids in foster care.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I think once the baby is born the mother would never consider herself "screwed"

I know someone who did. She treated that baby like crap from the day she was born..She and her 2 kids lived with us for 2 years and she barely came near him..She would stay at work late because she didn't want to deal with him...When he was 6 weeks old and had colic she was conviced he was crying just to make her mad.I haven't seen him for a few years,but I hear nothing has changed.

 

[chobie]

If you as a man or a women don't want a child you don't have sex, it really is that simple.

Or the extreme....

A friend of the family knew he never wanted kids so he got a vasectomy, no oops and no women could "trap" him. And a women who didn't had her tubes tide, that took a lot but she got her wish.

Women would "trap" him? Maybe instead of sleeping around he should have found one woman he trusted and spent the rest of his life was her. If he is so paranoid of women, he should have abstained from sex until he found one he trusted.

 

[Freyja]

If you as a man or a women don't want a child you don't have sex, it really is that simple.

Oh, is it? So no one who doesn´t want a child should have sex unless they´ve had a vasectomy? And 20 year olds who don´t want to have a kid until they´ve finished their education, are financially stable, etc. shouldn´t have sex either?

Unbelievable

 

[Kath2003]

If you as a man or a women don't want a child you don't have sex, it really is that simple.

No. If you don't want a child you practice safe sex. Birth Control these days is very sophisticated and rarely fails. There's no need to totally abstain until you're set on having a child - which could be many years after meeting your partner or even getting married - before having sex!

What if a couple never want children? They meet, date for a couple of years, get married...are these people never supposed to have sex?!

 

[declansdad]

Sorry, but all I see is what "should" happen but no solutions on how to make that should a reality.

Never once have I said that the man should control what happens, once again you are only using the context that you wish.

I have stated over and over that I have no solution but then again you have not provided a solution either. You keep saying, "It's my ball so I'm taking it and going home!"

 

[declansdad]

Unfortunately, there were a bunch of well-to-do white men in expensive suits debating the other night and, with one exception, they all believe THEY have a right to control what I do with MY body, even though we've never even met.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard any pro-lifers calling for the banning of in vitro. If abortion becomes illegal, that should become illegal as well.

Again, it hasn't been said on this thread and I'm not one of those well-to-do white men in expensive suits.